Brown Bear 9mm not reloadable

MikeO89 · January 29, 2010, 05:51 PM

Bought a few boxes of Brown Bear (made in Russia) 115 gr 9mm ammo. Shoots well. When I was trying to reload the cases, the pin in the sizing die kept releasing to the top. Looked inside the case and there are three micro holes and the center one not nearly big enough for the pin to go through to pop the primer out. Bummer, have 10 boxes of this stuff I can't reload. I wonder how many other ammo is like this.

B. Lahey · January 29, 2010, 06:00 PM

They are called Berdan primers. Look and learn, there are tons out there.

azredhawk44 · January 29, 2010, 06:09 PM

Probably not a brass case, either.

It'll ruin your dies if you resize non-brass cases.

That, and they won't resize the same way brass will. Steel will spring back out since it is fairly elastic and will be too large after resizing. Aluminum cases will be weakened by the working process.

zxcvbob · January 29, 2010, 06:10 PM

"Surprise!"

MikeO89 · January 29, 2010, 06:17 PM

Quote:

They are called Berdan primers. Look and learn, there are tons out there.

So is there any list of brans that are not reloadable or is it just take your chances on a hit or miss thing?

res45 · January 29, 2010, 06:46 PM

MikeO89 with the exception of some of the Wolf poly coated steel case ammo like .223 and 45ACP the majority of steel case and lacquer cases will be berdan primed. Berdan primed cases actually only have two flash holes in the bottom of the case,the tiny indention between them is made by the mfg process that creates the anvil on the inside of the primer pocket.

The Berdan primer was actually invented by an American Hiram Berdan,but used by the Europeans. The boxes primer was invented by Edward Boxer an Englishman but are mainly used by US ammo makers. Berdan primers and cases are easier to mfg. but harder to reload as far as tools go and come in many different sized as compared to the four main primer sized used in US ammo.

9mm brass is plentiful check with your local shooting range for once fired brass,also be aware that 9mm military once fired brass will have crimped in primer,they usually knock out easy but require you to cut the crimp out using your deburring tool.

shooter_from_show-me · January 29, 2010, 06:47 PM

Shoot it up and go find some cheap Federal or WWB ammo at your local WalMart

MikeO89 · January 29, 2010, 09:30 PM

I got a good deal on these at about $10 per box, it's why I bought 10 boxes. I never knew some cases were not reloadable. Learning more everyday.

azar92 · January 30, 2010, 01:13 AM

Don't bother with any case that is not brass (steel, copper-washed steel, aluminum, etc) and check all the brass you do scrounge that it's boxer primed (one center "large" hole) and not berdan primed (two small holes).

BDX · January 30, 2010, 10:51 AM

*Deleted*~ Moved to a future humorous commentary

mkl · January 30, 2010, 12:21 PM

Take a magnet with you when you go shopping for foreign ammo.

If the magnet attracts the case it is probably a berdan primed cartridge.

Note foreign ammo; the Speer handgun plinker stuff is aluminum which will not be attracted by a magnet, and is not reloadable either.

Freight_Train · January 30, 2010, 12:33 PM

ummm,if you don't know how to tell reloadable brass from shoot and leave steel berdan primed brass then you need to STOP RELOADING NOW.Read up some book before touching a press.You don't have a clue what your doing and risk killing yourself.You need to do some research and learning before you just start sizing and filling cases.

shooter_from_show-me · January 30, 2010, 12:51 PM

Quote:

I got a good deal on these at about $10 per box, it's why I bought 10 boxes

Not trying to make you feel bad. But I bought 22 boxes within 3 visits of the store, Federal 9mm that are reloadable from Wally World at $9.97/box about 4 months ago. I'd figure $6-7 would be a good deal on steel cased ammo

mustang66maniac · January 30, 2010, 01:38 PM

Quote:

ummm,if you don't know how to tell reloadable brass from shoot and leave steel berdan primed brass then you need to STOP RELOADING NOW.Read up some book before touching a press.You don't have a clue what your doing and risk killing yourself.You need to do some research and learning before you just start sizing and filling cases.

x2

Not to be a dick, but you need to stop reloading and pick up "The ABCs of Reloading" and learn some more.

Freight_Train · January 30, 2010, 01:44 PM

Yea,I hope I didn't come across as a dick myself.Reloading ain't "Easy".I have made mistakes and nearly cause major bodily harm.Too much powder and you will blow the gun up and anything close by.Too little powder and you can blow the gun up cause of flash burning or squibs.It would appear you didn't inspect the cases and although it is a guess didn't clean them.Brass has a life span and not all cases live the same amount.Some can only be loaded 1 or 2 times.Some can last a dozen times.All the same head stamp and batch.

azar92 · January 30, 2010, 08:50 PM

I fully agree that every new reloader should read a good manual that gives advice on how to reload and not just one that gives load data only. However, we all had to start somewhere. He's new, he's learning, and he's figured out that not all cases are reloadable before something bad happened. No harm, no foul. Cut the guy some slack.

MikeO89 · January 30, 2010, 09:34 PM

Thanks. I wasn't feeling too welcomed. It's doesn't feel too good being made an idiot by your peers. I've learned my lession

rrp · January 30, 2010, 09:46 PM

Mike089, there are quite a few surplus brass cases that are berden primed too. It is an easy mistake to make. Welcome to reloading. Always lessons to learn. Good luck and be safe.

rrp · January 30, 2010, 09:55 PM

Mike089, welcome to reloading. Trying to deprime berdan primed brass is a common mistake. There are quite a few different military surplus brass cases that are berdan primed. I've heard of people breaking decapping pins off trying to deprime them. Just think of it as a lesson learned. The hard part is throwing all of those beautiful cases in the scrap bin, because you can't use them. I hate when that happens!! Good luck and stay safe.

qcpunk · January 30, 2010, 10:42 PM

Mike, I would like to add that it IS possible to reload Berdan primed cases. There is a special tool which pops the primers out similar to a bottlecap. Once you pop the primers out you need a Primer Pocket Reamer to remove what remains of the crimp. At that point you can continue your loading process with the hard to find Berdan primers. The decapping tool is about $50 and the primers much more than that I would think. More info can be found here http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/ber...imensions.html. But of course this is assuming that the casing is still Brass.

Freight_Train · January 31, 2010, 12:03 AM

Your not an idiot your just ignorant(Not a bad word.Read the true definition.)Read up and get educated.No one here knew instantly how to reload a round of ammo perfectly.I still have problems.

Freight_Train · January 31, 2010, 12:20 AM

Ok,Crash course.Reload brass cases only.Gold in color and not magnetic.Some steel is copper washed and can look like brass.After a very short period of time you will be able to tell brass from copper washed instantly.Look down the neck,1 hole in the center Boxer primed.Reloadable.2 or more holes not in the center Berdan still reloadable but a LOT of work and only reloadable if you have funky odd ball caliber like 7.7jap,7.5MAS yella belly or anything else that hasnt' been produced in years.Clean all brass before loading.Never use any cleaner with ammonia.Ammonia attacks brass molecularly and causes it to brittle up and crack.Almost all people use a vibrating tumbler with corn cob media or crushed walnut shell(Very dusty if you don't have a sealed bowl).inspect all brass for cracks around the neck and base.if there is a crack,it is junk.If you use a powder throw measure every 20th throw to make sure it is still accurate.Never mix powders.

shooter_from_show-me · January 31, 2010, 08:31 AM

Yeah Mike, we're just looking out for your safety. Don't want to see anyone get injured or worse.

Uncle Buck · January 31, 2010, 09:48 AM

C'mon guys, if you have never made a mistake, then call the rest of us names.

I have:
Set the powder scale wrong
Used the wrong projectile
Used the wrong powder
Over expanded the cartridge case
Thrown double charges
Loaded bullets into cases with no powder
Dumped a bottle of powder on the loading table and floor
Dropped several boxes of primers
Tried to load steel/aluminum cases
Gotten cases stuck in my die
Set my seater die wrong

In each situation I discovered my error because of something you guys said here on the forum. I stopped what I was doing and asked questions. I have five reloading manuals and I go online to check powder charges and bullet types. (I learned that from you guys, Thanks.)
Will I screw up again? I guarenteeeeee I will. But, like Mike, I hope I will continue to realize when I do something wrong or realize something is not right and I hope you guys are here to help me out when I do. (especially when I decide to start reloading shotgun shells.)

Mike: Like they said above, just check the brass before you reload it.

While I was getting my reloading stuff together, I picked up a lot of brass. I did not know there was a difference when it came to reloading different types of cartridges.
When I first read the part of different types of primers and cases, I did not have a clue what they were talking about.

Don't give up and most importantly, if you have a question, make sure to ask. The majority of the post here are helpful and positive. They answered your question.

teeroux · January 31, 2010, 10:06 AM

I saw a vid on a guy who reloads 7.62X39 and .223 in steel case and loads Boxer into 7.62X39 Berdan by punching out the anvil with his decaper and loctiting the primer in place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mbf4C-8ViM

So there is at least one case where someone does it, but I would think that it may affect the pressure or case integrety (in a negative way

) by having three flash holes and undersized primers in your loads.

January 29, 2010, 05:51 PM	#1
MikeO89 Member Join Date: December 31, 2009 Posts: 46	Brown Bear 9mm not reloadable Bought a few boxes of Brown Bear (made in Russia) 115 gr 9mm ammo. Shoots well. When I was trying to reload the cases, the pin in the sizing die kept releasing to the top. Looked inside the case and there are three micro holes and the center one not nearly big enough for the pin to go through to pop the primer out. Bummer, have 10 boxes of this stuff I can't reload. I wonder how many other ammo is like this.

January 29, 2010, 06:00 PM	#2
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	They are called Berdan primers. Look and learn, there are tons out there. __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell

January 29, 2010, 06:10 PM	#4
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	"Surprise!" __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

January 29, 2010, 06:46 PM	#6
res45 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 753	MikeO89 with the exception of some of the Wolf poly coated steel case ammo like .223 and 45ACP the majority of steel case and lacquer cases will be berdan primed. Berdan primed cases actually only have two flash holes in the bottom of the case,the tiny indention between them is made by the mfg process that creates the anvil on the inside of the primer pocket. The Berdan primer was actually invented by an American Hiram Berdan,but used by the Europeans. The boxes primer was invented by Edward Boxer an Englishman but are mainly used by US ammo makers. Berdan primers and cases are easier to mfg. but harder to reload as far as tools go and come in many different sized as compared to the four main primer sized used in US ammo. 9mm brass is plentiful check with your local shooting range for once fired brass,also be aware that 9mm military once fired brass will have crimped in primer,they usually knock out easy but require you to cut the crimp out using your deburring tool. __________________ The Reloaders Network discord Channel https://discord.gg/Nafuzht

January 29, 2010, 06:47 PM	#7
shooter_from_show-me Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 231	Shoot it up and go find some cheap Federal or WWB ammo at your local WalMart __________________ When the government fears the people, you have liberty. When the people fear the government, you have tyranny. ~ Thomas Jefferson NRA Life Member

January 29, 2010, 06:09 PM	#3
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	Probably not a brass case, either. It'll ruin your dies if you resize non-brass cases. That, and they won't resize the same way brass will. Steel will spring back out since it is fairly elastic and will be too large after resizing. Aluminum cases will be weakened by the working process.

January 29, 2010, 09:30 PM	#8
MikeO89 Member Join Date: December 31, 2009 Posts: 46	I got a good deal on these at about $10 per box, it's why I bought 10 boxes. I never knew some cases were not reloadable. Learning more everyday.

January 30, 2010, 01:13 AM	#9
azar92 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 209	Don't bother with any case that is not brass (steel, copper-washed steel, aluminum, etc) and check all the brass you do scrounge that it's boxer primed (one center "large" hole) and not berdan primed (two small holes).

January 30, 2010, 10:51 AM	#10
BDX Member Join Date: January 4, 2010 Location: NorCal Posts: 61	My recommendations Deleted~ Moved to a future humorous commentary Last edited by BDX; January 30, 2010 at 11:19 AM.

January 30, 2010, 12:21 PM	#11
mkl Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Location: DFW area, Texas Posts: 494	Take a magnet with you when you go shopping for foreign ammo. If the magnet attracts the case it is probably a berdan primed cartridge. Note foreign ammo; the Speer handgun plinker stuff is aluminum which will not be attracted by a magnet, and is not reloadable either.

January 30, 2010, 12:33 PM	#12
Freight_Train Member Join Date: January 23, 2010 Location: Gasdsden,Al Posts: 43	ummm,if you don't know how to tell reloadable brass from shoot and leave steel berdan primed brass then you need to STOP RELOADING NOW.Read up some book before touching a press.You don't have a clue what your doing and risk killing yourself.You need to do some research and learning before you just start sizing and filling cases.

January 30, 2010, 01:44 PM	#15
Freight_Train Member Join Date: January 23, 2010 Location: Gasdsden,Al Posts: 43	Yea,I hope I didn't come across as a dick myself.Reloading ain't "Easy".I have made mistakes and nearly cause major bodily harm.Too much powder and you will blow the gun up and anything close by.Too little powder and you can blow the gun up cause of flash burning or squibs.It would appear you didn't inspect the cases and although it is a guess didn't clean them.Brass has a life span and not all cases live the same amount.Some can only be loaded 1 or 2 times.Some can last a dozen times.All the same head stamp and batch.

January 30, 2010, 08:50 PM	#16
azar92 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 209	I fully agree that every new reloader should read a good manual that gives advice on how to reload and not just one that gives load data only. However, we all had to start somewhere. He's new, he's learning, and he's figured out that not all cases are reloadable before something bad happened. No harm, no foul. Cut the guy some slack.

January 30, 2010, 09:34 PM	#17
MikeO89 Member Join Date: December 31, 2009 Posts: 46	Thanks. I wasn't feeling too welcomed. It's doesn't feel too good being made an idiot by your peers. I've learned my lession

January 30, 2010, 09:46 PM	#18
rrp Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2006 Location: west central Wi Posts: 300	Mike089, there are quite a few surplus brass cases that are berden primed too. It is an easy mistake to make. Welcome to reloading. Always lessons to learn. Good luck and be safe. Last edited by rrp; January 30, 2010 at 09:59 PM.

January 30, 2010, 09:55 PM	#19
rrp Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2006 Location: west central Wi Posts: 300	berdan primed brass Mike089, welcome to reloading. Trying to deprime berdan primed brass is a common mistake. There are quite a few different military surplus brass cases that are berdan primed. I've heard of people breaking decapping pins off trying to deprime them. Just think of it as a lesson learned. The hard part is throwing all of those beautiful cases in the scrap bin, because you can't use them. I hate when that happens!! Good luck and stay safe.

January 30, 2010, 10:42 PM	#20
qcpunk Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Farmsville, AZ Posts: 305	Mike, I would like to add that it IS possible to reload Berdan primed cases. There is a special tool which pops the primers out similar to a bottlecap. Once you pop the primers out you need a Primer Pocket Reamer to remove what remains of the crimp. At that point you can continue your loading process with the hard to find Berdan primers. The decapping tool is about $50 and the primers much more than that I would think. More info can be found here http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/ber...imensions.html. But of course this is assuming that the casing is still Brass.

January 31, 2010, 12:03 AM	#21
Freight_Train Member Join Date: January 23, 2010 Location: Gasdsden,Al Posts: 43	Your not an idiot your just ignorant(Not a bad word.Read the true definition.)Read up and get educated.No one here knew instantly how to reload a round of ammo perfectly.I still have problems.

January 31, 2010, 12:20 AM	#22
Freight_Train Member Join Date: January 23, 2010 Location: Gasdsden,Al Posts: 43	Ok,Crash course.Reload brass cases only.Gold in color and not magnetic.Some steel is copper washed and can look like brass.After a very short period of time you will be able to tell brass from copper washed instantly.Look down the neck,1 hole in the center Boxer primed.Reloadable.2 or more holes not in the center Berdan still reloadable but a LOT of work and only reloadable if you have funky odd ball caliber like 7.7jap,7.5MAS yella belly or anything else that hasnt' been produced in years.Clean all brass before loading.Never use any cleaner with ammonia.Ammonia attacks brass molecularly and causes it to brittle up and crack.Almost all people use a vibrating tumbler with corn cob media or crushed walnut shell(Very dusty if you don't have a sealed bowl).inspect all brass for cracks around the neck and base.if there is a crack,it is junk.If you use a powder throw measure every 20th throw to make sure it is still accurate.Never mix powders.

January 31, 2010, 08:31 AM	#23
shooter_from_show-me Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 231	Yeah Mike, we're just looking out for your safety. Don't want to see anyone get injured or worse. __________________ When the government fears the people, you have liberty. When the people fear the government, you have tyranny. ~ Thomas Jefferson NRA Life Member

January 31, 2010, 09:48 AM	#24
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	C'mon guys, if you have never made a mistake, then call the rest of us names. I have: Set the powder scale wrong Used the wrong projectile Used the wrong powder Over expanded the cartridge case Thrown double charges Loaded bullets into cases with no powder Dumped a bottle of powder on the loading table and floor Dropped several boxes of primers Tried to load steel/aluminum cases Gotten cases stuck in my die Set my seater die wrong In each situation I discovered my error because of something you guys said here on the forum. I stopped what I was doing and asked questions. I have five reloading manuals and I go online to check powder charges and bullet types. (I learned that from you guys, Thanks.) Will I screw up again? I guarenteeeeee I will. But, like Mike, I hope I will continue to realize when I do something wrong or realize something is not right and I hope you guys are here to help me out when I do. (especially when I decide to start reloading shotgun shells.) Mike: Like they said above, just check the brass before you reload it. While I was getting my reloading stuff together, I picked up a lot of brass. I did not know there was a difference when it came to reloading different types of cartridges. When I first read the part of different types of primers and cases, I did not have a clue what they were talking about. Don't give up and most importantly, if you have a question, make sure to ask. The majority of the post here are helpful and positive. They answered your question. __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

January 31, 2010, 10:06 AM	#25
teeroux Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Posts: 1,512	I saw a vid on a guy who reloads 7.62X39 and .223 in steel case and loads Boxer into 7.62X39 Berdan by punching out the anvil with his decaper and loctiting the primer in place. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mbf4C-8ViM So there is at least one case where someone does it, but I would think that it may affect the pressure or case integrety (in a negative way) by having three flash holes and undersized primers in your loads.