Progressive automated press for long distance

[nhyrum]

Hey there

I'm looking at the hornady lock n load auto progressive press. I'm going to almost strictly reload 6.5 creedmore, as that's all I have (right now) other than 22lr.

Will the powder drop and measuring be accurate enough? .1 grain variant or whole grain variance?

In the sticky it recommended a single stage for long distance accuracy, while I am shooting for distance, I'm just doing it for fun and no comps. Should I go with a single stage? I plan on doing 2-300 at a time and down time is limited (wife likes spending time together) so I figure the few hundred extra would be worth it to us.

[Jimro]

A progressive can load match grade ammo. I know of at least one year where all the Palma team ammo was put together on a Dillon progressive.

Since you haven't seem to have done any load workup yet, I would start there. If you use a ball powder, any powder measure will hold tight charge weight tolerance but it might not be the most accurate for you. If you use a stick powder, you might get more variation but better accuracy.

You won't know until you test out some loads.

Jimro

[Economist]

The powder measure on my LNL AP will hold 4064 and 4198 within .1 grain on about 9 of 10 cartridges. The tenth one would be .2 off. Once you get your loading rhythm down it will turn out very consistent powder drops. I was surprised at how accurate the powder measure was.

With ball powder it is dead on your desired charge almost every time.

[jwrowland77]

As long as you do a ladder test work up which gives you a .6gr accuracy node (if worked up in .3gr increments), you should be able to do it just fine.

[nhyrum]

Awesome. I think the time saving is well worth the few extra bucks.

I figure a decent press will run 150, scale is 100+ and for 400 I can save a ton of time and crank a shooting session or two worth of rounds out in a half hour? Sign me up

Also as a am new to reloading what dies do I need? I know I'll need at least 2 dies, don't know what they do lol. Case trimmer and some calipers

[jwrowland77]

I do plan to test this out here soon for the podcast I help host.

I have two loads for the .223 that I recently worked up using a ladder test. I'll make some up on the progressive and see if I get same results as when using my single stage.

[emcon5]

Do a ladder test when working up a load, you should be able to find a sweet spot or two that are tolerant in variations in powder charge.

[nhyrum]

What is a ladder test? I hear everyone talking about it

I'll just look it up. That's what the internet is for right?

[emcon5]

https://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/...d-development/

http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html

[nhyrum]

Yeah I'm reading through the one on 6mmbr. Thanks for being willing to throw up those links, I bet its one of those questions that gets asked once a day

[jwrowland77]

Here's a write up I did using a ladder test.

https://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/...-load-223-rem/

[nhyrum]

I'm learning there's a lot more to reloading than I thought.

I'm also having trouble finding a powder. H4350 seems to reign supreme, but can't find it locally and 30 bucks for hazmat shipping is just stupid

[jwrowland77]

Yeah, if you order powder online, make sure to order in bulk.

[PA-Joe]

You can get a good single press kit for aorund 300.00. The AP press kit will run about 500.00. You will need a scale. If you are going to trim after each re-sizing than an Autopress will not help you.

With a single press you reload in batches so it goes faster than you think.

[nhyrum]

I'll still need a powder scale for the AP? I won't trim every time, just when it gets out of spec. I was going to trim before everything, but it makes sense to trim after resizing.

[emcon5]

I'm learning there's a lot more to reloading than I thought.

There are really two approaches to reloading*, and you need to decide what your goal is:

Do you want to wring the last bit of accuracy out of your rifle?
Do you want to make ammunition that has acceptable accuracy for your application.

I fall firmly in the latter camp. I started out chasing the last tenth, but after I figured out how many rounds I fired and range trips I made trying to make already good groups smaller, I stopped.

For some people, reloading is as much or more of the hobby than actual shooting, and there is nothing better than tinkering with different powders, and charge weights, and seating depths to try and eek out the best possible performance from your load and rifle. I am not that person.

*(There is actually a third approach to reloading, those who want to make something that goes bang as cheaply as possible, we will skip that here)

I set the seating depth for about .020" jump to the lands, I pick a powder I have on hand and have experience with in a particular size case, I try and do a ladder test, but sometimes just load up several charge weights and see what groups the best. I have never had a problem finding a load that has acceptable accuracy for the application.

Yes, I admit I am leaving some potential accuracy improvement on the table. For me, it is not worth the extra effort and time, plus wear on the barrel to find that last couple tenths.

If all you are doing is 6.5 Cred, you really don't need a progressive. I would look at the RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme Master Kit.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00..._bw_g200_i4_sh

I started with a cheap Lee kit, and ended up buying pretty much everything in that RCBS Kit piece by piece and much greater cost.

That kit has everything you need but the dies, and you will have to make something to mount the powder measure to. I made mine from a scrap 2X4 I had in the garage, so far has lasted ~20 years.

If you are loading for a bolt action, you can neck size, which it much easier on the brass, and doesn't require any messy lube. With neck sizing, you won't need to trim as often either.

One thing about a progressive, you won't be able to clean you primer pockets, you need to do that after the case has been resized and the old primer removed.

[emcon5]

I'll still need a powder scale for the AP?

Yeah, you will need to adjust the measure to throw a specific powder weight.

[Economist]

I'll still need a powder scale for the AP?

Getting the powder measure to throw a certain charge is a trial-and-error process. You adjust the screw, throw a few charges, weigh them, then adjust again, throw, and weigh until you get your throws where you need them.

Once you get rolling, you will still want to check your powder throws every so often too.

[T. O'Heir]

"...make sure to order in bulk..." But not until you have worked up a load.
The 'ladder test' tells you nothing about how accurate a particular load is out of your rifle. Only tells you how a particular load shoots in comparison to other loads.
One thing to remember is that the black on a standard NRA 600 yard target is 36" diameter with a 6" X ring. So one hole groups or even 1 MOA groups aren't that critical. Consistency is far more important.

[emcon5]

The 'ladder test' tells you nothing about how accurate a particular load is out of your rifle. Only tells you how a particular load shoots in comparison to other loads.

Huh? Works pretty well for me:

[jwrowland77]

Originally Posted by emcon5

Huh? Works pretty well for me:

Worked pretty well for me as well.

[jwrowland77]

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

"...make sure to order in bulk..." But not until you have worked up a load.

The 'ladder test' tells you nothing about how accurate a particular load is out of your rifle. Only tells you how a particular load shoots in comparison to other loads.

One thing to remember is that the black on a standard NRA 600 yard target is 36" diameter with a 6" X ring. So one hole groups or even 1 MOA groups aren't that critical. Consistency is far more important.

Depends on what you shoot.

For me shooting F-Class FTR, I'm shooting at a 3" X-Ring, 6" 10-ring.

Ladder test have worked out fairly well for me. It's not to compare other loads, it's to find your barrels OBT aka accuracy node. Then you fine tune afterwards adjusting your OAL. I adjust based on base to ogive measurements on how far/close the ogive is to the lands.

[nhyrum]

I realize that a progressive press may not be super necessary for me, but saving time is definitely worth the few extra bucks, as I don't have a lot of down time. I also do plan on reloading 10mm when I get one.

Can someone link me to a set of decent dies for the 6.5 creedmoor? I don't really know what I'd need exactly

Also what practice targets do you use and where could I get some? A PDF of a target on 11x17 paper would be perfect to me as I can easily print a high resolution target on 11x17.

I may try to design something

[emcon5]

I realize that a progressive press may not be super necessary for me, but saving time is definitely worth the few extra bucks, as I don't have a lot of down time.

With a bolt rifle, you really won't save any time, not if accuracy is your goal. You just do each step in batches. My workflow:

Neck size/deprime with the press in the garage (one pass through the press)

In the living room, in front of the TV: Clean primer pockets, Prime with RCBS Hand primer. Every other loading, trim/chamfer

All the above can be done in advance. I normally have a big plastic tub full of primed ready to load cases.

Back in the garage to add the powder and seat the bullet.

You should clean the primer pockets after depriming, you can't do that on a progressive without stopping to take the case out. Trimming should come after sizing, and while that may be possible on a progressive with a really expensive auto trimmer (Dillon has one like this), it is not that practical for the comparatively small batches you load for a bolt gun.

If you FL size, you need to clean the lube off the cases.

For a straight walled pistol, a progressive is great (but the steps are the same, and you can still load prep/size/prime all your cases in advance).

For targets, this is my preference.

[nhyrum]

I am leaning more towards a single stage press now. It just seemed worth it to throw brass in one tub, primers in another and fill the powder "horn" throw a handle for a half hour and get 400 rounds out.

I was looking more for paper targets, but 100 bucks for the whole "long range" Steel target is a smokin deal