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Old April 20, 2012, 09:49 PM   #1
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The Officer Down Video

This is an interesting video that someone brought to my attention. I believe its healthy to view and discuss such videos because it makes us better tacticians so to speak. Im not second guessing whats happening in the video, but just trying to see how this situation could have been better.

Here is my feedback in regards:

- Maximum coverage body armor is a must have. The regular designed body armor does not cover a lot of the neck and armpit area. I believe a lot of body armor designers have increased the coverage on their designs seeing that many folks nowadays are getting hit at those vulnerable points.

- Cars are poor choices to hide behind for cover. Rounds will go right through them like butter. If you must get behind a car, then get behind the engine block where the round will have more metal to travel through.

- Never stand directly in the line of sight of the shooter even if you are behind a barrier. Stand at an angle to make it a little harder for the shooter.

- The effective range of a 9mm pistol according to the US Army is 50 meters. So this means at any point within a half football field is the effective range of that firearm. Beyond that range, the round does not become ineffective, but less effective. So you want to stand as far back from the shooter as you can get away with.

- A little blood loss will send you into shock. You wont die from the round, but you will die from shock over a little blood loss. When you are shot or see someone shot, then your first priority is to stop the blood loss. This means you need to find the point where that blood is coming out, get yourself a cloth and apply pressure. If you cant find some cloth, dont be shy, take your shirt off and use that. In emergencies, use anything you can as an improvised bandage.

- If someone is laying on the ground with blood coming out, you want to put down your camera and go treat the person on the ground. All you have to do is stop the blood flow and put a blanket over them so they wont go into shock. You dont need any training to do that. If you are covering a point with a weapon like the other officer is doing, then you want to order whoever is around to treat the person laying on the ground while you cover the point.

- If there is a shooter out there, you want to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of getting close and interjecting yourself into the situation. Obviously, this is a situation which requires an armored SWAT vehicle and specially equipped officers with tactical vests and shields.

So thats my take on this video. Feel free to discuss, agree or disagree. Thank you.
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Old April 20, 2012, 10:05 PM   #2
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The video is 1% tactics, 99% just watching an officer in shock moan in pain.
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Old April 20, 2012, 10:18 PM   #3
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I have to disagree, its all tactics from what to wear, where to stand, what to stand behind, how to treat someone who is injured and what happens after a little blood loss. A lot of lessons we can take away from this video.
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Old April 20, 2012, 10:46 PM   #4
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I agree that if I saw someone that was bleeding out my first instinct would be to treat them. However, it would be a good idea to clearly articulate what you're doing before approaching a wounded officer. IMHO, rushing into help could get YOU shot.

I didn't watch the last ten minutes of the video but I found it weird that no one went for the first-aid kit they carry in squad cars and that no one was holding his wound. Is this video on the up-and-up?
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Old April 20, 2012, 11:31 PM   #5
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As a medical doctor, that ain't the way I would have reacted. Having the victim hold his own wound is a bit ridiculous to me, but I guess the news doesn't make news, right?

You see a lot of videos of someone being attacked by a wild animal where the other person doesn't help whatsoever but gets a great video. Just one more sign of a sick world in my opinion.

In addition, just because you don't have a lot of external bleeding does not mean you don't have significant internal blood loss. In addition, being shot in the neck, there is very little room for swelling around important structures such as nerves, blood vessels and the trachea. I suspect that was a very serious wound by how fast the officer collapsed and was unable to stand.

Sorry, but don't take that definition of shock and trauma to the medical school review class. That man quickly collapsed and I suspect was in extreme danger by the time he made it to the hospital.

In addition, if you are going to pray for someone which is right to do, put a cloth on the wound as well. Geez, where has common sense gone today?

Last edited by Alaska444; April 20, 2012 at 11:39 PM.
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Old April 21, 2012, 08:40 AM   #6
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The other thing I didnt address in the video is the action of the civilians. The civilians in the house are just walking outside and moving around as curious on-lookers.

If there is some kind of activity outside involving a shooter, then as a civilian, you want to go down into the basement or get low within the house. Rounds will also slice through the house just as well as it did the car. The reality is rounds, especially rifle rounds, will go through most any object around you so the best method for a civilian to be safe is to lay flat on the ground behind something or inside the house.

A civilian should not be shy about helping the officer or be afraid to be mistaken for a bad guy in this situation. Officers are smart people who are on the road everyday. They will be able to distinguish between a well intentioned civilian and a bad guy. In fact, I bet they will even appreciate your efforts. If you see an officer on the ground like this bleeding then you want to get in there and help out. The main priority is to locate the entry and exit. Then you want to plug those wounds with whatever you can. Also, if the wound is to the chest area then you should listen for sucking sounds. If that is the case, then you need to find some plastic and seal it up so the man can breathe.

Time is of the essence as a loss of blood has serious conseqences. If you delay even for just a minute, then the person could die or sustain permanent brain damage.

Whatever you do, you do not want to sit there gawking or slack jawed with your cellphone camera. Lets face it, if you get a million hits on youtube you are not going to be rich and it certainly wont improve your situation with the ladies. You want to take action as a life hangs in the balance. Thats the most important thing.
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Old April 21, 2012, 09:13 AM   #7
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It would be handy to have a doctor around but they didn't. I think they did the best they could. Maybe they need some training like any army medic would get.
Criminals promote gun control. It make the rest of us easy prey.
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Old April 21, 2012, 10:10 AM   #8
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What Alaska444 said.
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Old April 21, 2012, 04:47 PM   #9
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Must really suck being an officer in that town. In particular, a wounded officer. The guy has to self rescue while folks (officers and public) just let him squirt....jees. Finally, some officers bail him out with a car. Nobody even attempted direct pressure. Damn potential bloodborne pathogens or crazy shooting guy....the guy needed assistance.

I may just be an armchair quarterback, but I'm sorry.....I could not have let him lay like that.
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Old April 21, 2012, 07:23 PM   #10
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This is what I call the "Slack Jawed Moment". Something happens and then everyone sits their dumbfounded wondering what is the next step.

The next step is teamwork and decisive action. The officer should have taken the other officer behind the house then told the civilian to keep pressure on the wound while he covers the area. The civilian should have communicated to the officer and said he was going to put pressure on the wound while he covers the area.

Obviously, you cant do two things at once...putting pressure on the wound and covering the area so you need to work like a team together. The teamwork has to be initiated either by the officer or civilian, but someone has to put that foot forward.
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Old April 22, 2012, 01:33 AM   #11
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I really don't think they did all that bad.

As noted, a car doesn't do all that much to stop rifle bullets. If the healthy officer gets in a car goes 20 yards up the road, stops, lets the hit officer jump in then backs up, you are talking about a lot of exposure to both of them. If the guy who is hit can get out of the line of fire himself, then the healthy officer covering him while he does so makes sense.

I am not sure when the other officers down the road arrive. The footage does not initially show them or the spot they are later seen at. They have a lot more firepower than the officer close to the videographer. Until they show up the healthy officer must pay attention to the shooters location. Afterwards, from what the video shows, he is still holding the weakest point of the box, so if the shooter makes a run for it he likely will come right at them(and be full of holes before he gets there). Maybe shooter is in a house and will drop out a window the officers down the street can't see. All the same he needs to keep an eye on that situation.

Ever shot with blood all over your hands? I haven't, but even in the rain controlling the firearm is considerably more difficult. I do know blood is considerably more slippery than water. I wouldn't want blood on my hands in a shoot out if it could be avoided.

The civilian leaning against the car who helped pull the officer across the road is clearly having problems with the situation. Not sure he will be able to help much. I was in some medical training where we responded to a simulated scenario with a person unconscious and had to figure out what was going on. My partner went to check pulse and the hand came out of the sleeve. Fake hand, the actor made a pretty realistic unconsiouc groaning reaction, and my partner THREW the hand over her shoulder and fell back. It was several minutes later before she was functioning. Blood isn't for everyone.

The videographer is some sort of media person whether freelance, amateur, or professional. Media makes a choice on whether to observe or participate. If they decide to participate they won't make a living observing and we won't have a record of events.

Applying pressure through kevlar is not all that easy. Looks as if the hit is at the edge or just under it(likely folding). Still difficult to work around it. Taking off the vest isn't a great idea either.

You can apply pressure and retain some view of the shooters location. Lay prone and use the other officers body as a rest. Finding a position where you put enough pressure on the wound without putting pressure on the lungs and still remain able to shoot would be a challenge. Not a great solution, but if you have to get both jobs done...
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Old April 22, 2012, 05:41 AM   #12
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regarding Tactics. my observations:
no appearant first aid training or use of any by other then the shot officer.
No one on scene took command, cops milled around.
Cop shot did nor use cover properly
Wounded cop gave himself better aid the other officer did.
Three cops standing behind SUV with large windows. Maybe concelment but not cover.
The cop who told guys to get back removes the human contact needed by the shot cop for his comfort
Cop with rifle kneeling in the street, no cover
Cop on hillside with rifle had no ideal of what his mission was

Fire dept not waiting until scene secured is a HUGE BAD on their part.
I am not second guessing FIRE. I was a F/F and EMT. I have been on shooting scene and fire or medic do not go in until the scene is secure.

This is a good video to take apart and see what needs to be done to make it work better. Here is my training list from the video:

1. Identify the Incident or scene commander. This can be anyone until relived by a ranking officer or the scene is secured.

2. Get every Tom, Dick and Mary into first aid training.

3. Train for what is cover and concelment and how to use both properly.

4 Establish radio comms polcy since the were at least 3 or 4 agencies involved between LEO and Fire.

Oh a plastic is the worst thing to put on a sucking chest wound. You want something semi stiff covered in plastic, like a drivers liences or ID card. Anything that will seal the air out and not be sucked into the wound itself.
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Old April 22, 2012, 09:00 AM   #13
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I would be ashamed that I didn't try to help my fellow officer any more than that guy did.
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