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Old February 20, 2011, 09:23 PM   #1
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Trail Boss Velocity

I have a stockpile (1,000's) of 52 grain .224 and 75 grain 6mm bullets. I am looking into loading with Trail Boss (TB) as a very economical way to do shooting and with the safety of no double charge. It would be primarily for paper shooting. I would be loading the 219 zipper, 222, 223, 22-250 with the 52 grain, and 243 with the 6mm.

Is someone out there familiar with what I can likely get for maximum velocity with what maximum powder weight? I am a 30 year reloader and will, of course, start at the 70% or such point and work up to find the best accuracy. But at this time I have now idea what the maximum case capacity is for the TB in those cartridges or what the velocity range is.

Any info would certainly be appreciated. THANKS.
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Old February 20, 2011, 09:37 PM   #2
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I don't know about velocity, but you can use the procedure on Hodgdon's website to determine the maximum charge.

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Old February 20, 2011, 11:13 PM   #3
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Check Hodgdon's data online at thier site it is free. I know they list Trail Boss Loads for .223 Rem. At max load it will have way lower velociteis. With my .221 Fireball and .223 Rem rifles I have to reset the zero on my scopes as the lower velocity tends to make for some serious drop at 100 yards. They do group realy tight though, just no big bang, and it feels like shooting a pellet gun.
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Old February 21, 2011, 03:05 PM   #4
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Get a copy of 'Handloader #265' (the magazine) April-May 2010-it contains an excellent article on Reduced Loads with Trail Boss..

Tells how to determine starting and max load for any cailber/bullet.
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Old February 21, 2011, 06:51 PM   #5
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reloaders' experience

Hodgdon's site just lists one load and it doesn't say anything about max velocity or anything. Most information is oriented towards a subsonic load and/or duplicating a 22lr.

I was just trying to find out from some reader's personal experience how much powder the various cartridges would hold and what their maximum velocity was. I really have no interest at this time in subsonic loads.

Eventually I will do my own loads and chronograph them, but was hoping to just get an inkling ahead of time.
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Old February 22, 2011, 08:56 PM   #6
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I have used Trail Boss in 7mm-08 and .204Ruger. The method of developing a load is to simply fill the case to where the base of the seated bullet will be and multiply by .70. That is your starting load. Filling the case to the base of the bullet will be perfectly safe but the IMR method assumes that you're looking for an accuracy load so they give you a range.

Anyway, in my experience and backed up by QuickLoad predictions, you can expect maximum velocities at 100% load to be around 60% of normal max velocities for the bullet.

At 75% load levels, my .204 shoots 2,200fps with 32gr V-Max bullets. It is very, very quiet. It sounds more like a cap gun than even a 22LR.
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Old February 23, 2011, 11:27 PM   #7
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max loads

Thanks for the inputs. I did a little checking with the cartridges I will eventually reload. Following are the maximum weights I came up with. Of course the "base of the bullit" is an arbitrary line so the below are rounded to what I felt was the best level.

222: 7.5 grains
223: 8.0 grains
219 Zipper: 9.06
30-30: 11.0 grains
22-250: 13.0 grains
243: 15.0 grains
25-06, 270, 30-06: 19.0 grains

I found that the powder often hung up in the RCBS powder dispenser. Tapping it against the bottom of the stroke dislodged it. But it is definately something to be aware of when dispensing.

Makes visually checking the charge more important.
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Old February 24, 2011, 06:06 AM   #8
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I can't get uniform charges with my UniFlow powder measure (RCBS) and Trail Boss. All of my Trail Boss (TB) loads are thrown by hand (the old 'bowl of powder, and a metal spoon' method).

Somewhere in the data, they also suggest doing everything you can to avoid cutting grains. TB is a fun powder, but cutting grains or compressing it will really screw up its burn rate.

Be aware that some reloaders (such as myself) have not been able to achieve anything near the velocities Hodgdon shows.
(And I have been able to fit up to an additional 2 grains of powder {for a max load} in some loads, while still having trouble meeting Hodgdon's starting load velocities.)

I love the powder, but results have been very different than what I expected.
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Old February 24, 2011, 06:43 AM   #9
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Hmmm. I recall you had trouble getting it to fireform cases, too. Added to the velocity information it seems like you're getting below-normal pressures for the powder.

Have you tried a magnum primer, just to see if it matters? You mentioned long throats in the other thread, and I'm just thinking the case is not sealing, or some other obstacle to normal pressure is present. Maybe even a bad or contaminated can of powder? Does your Trail Boss look like little flat gray donuts? Just checking.

Re bulk density, I've measured its bulk specific gravity at .32, but seen it listed by Lee as under .30 when you convert their VMD table. That's about a 10% span, so what you describe by way of weight fitting in the case is perfectly possible.
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Old February 24, 2011, 06:52 AM   #10
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I haven't loaded any since the last discussion, UncleNick.

I'll give it a try next time I get around to those crappy Power Points.

Right now, I have a serious backlog of real loads in the development and testing stages.

(You did remember correctly. I had issues with the cases failing to seal.)
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