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Old December 11, 2009, 01:31 PM   #1
red caddy
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7.62 x 39- imr 4198

Any body have a pet load for the X 39 using a 110 Gr JHP and IMR 4198 ? I'm looking for a light, fast, destructive load for my mini-30.
I also want to try the 85Gr RN used in the CZ-52, has anybody else tried this combination? Thanks, Paul
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Old December 11, 2009, 05:16 PM   #2
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Quote:
I also want to try the 85Gr RN used in the CZ-52,
You're talking about the 7.62x25 for the CZ 52 pistol and not the VZ 52 rifle, right? With that bullet weight I figure you must be. Alot of people mistakenly call the rifles CZ 52s and they are commonly found in 7.62x39 as well as the original 7.62x45.
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Old December 11, 2009, 07:05 PM   #3
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Hodgdon says a 125 grain bullet has a maximum of 24 grains of IMR4198 and a maximum of 26.5 grains of H4198. This is in a Midway branded case with a CCI #200 primer.

They list no loads for bullet weights under 125 grains. It may be that the common semi-auto gas-operated guns will not work reliably with lighter bullets? I don't know off-hand? Seated the same depth into the case mouth, 110 grain bullets will use about three or four percent more of either powder. More in some guns. It depends on the throat.
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Old December 11, 2009, 10:55 PM   #4
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Paul IMR-4198 is a decent powder for the X39 I find 24 grs. even to be a good load in my SKS rifles using .310 123 gr. bullets with that powder. AA1680 and Reloader #7 are generally my powders of choice in x39. The IMR is a bit slower even at MAX load than the other two I mentioned.

The 110 gr. bullet is probably a Seirra and .308 dia. unless you happen to have one of those older first generation Ruger Mini-30 with the 308 bore instead of the newer .310 version your accuracy and muzzle velocity is probably going to suffer somewhat because of improper bullet to bore fit.

If your looking for a good bullet to try in the Mini-30 the Hornady .310 V-MAX 123 gr. component bullet is available at Graf & Sons.


Lyman # 49 X39 data

Sierra .308 110 gr JHP
OAL 2.200"
IMR-4198 Min. 22.6 grs. 2115 fps. MAX 25.2 grs. 2416 fps.

Any Hornady 123 gr. bullet FMJ / V-MAX / SP
OAL 2.200"
IMR-4198 Min. 22.0 grs. 2064 fps. MAX 24.6 grs. 2307 fps.

Chinese SKS 50 yds irons
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Last edited by res45; December 11, 2009 at 11:05 PM.
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Old December 11, 2009, 11:25 PM   #5
red caddy
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ISC, yes, I am talking about the .308" 85 Gr. JHP, It expands reliably at ~ 1650 FPS in my 7.62 X 25 tokerov and should be driven a bit faster in my mini-30. This bullet is very accurate in my CZ-52 pistol, (minute of soda can @ 100 yd.) and should be the same or better out of the longer barrel.

Unclenick, I found a load in the Speer #9 book, for the 7.62 X 39, showing a spread of 23 to 25 Gr. of IMR 4198, under a 110 Gr. JHP, with a MV of ~ 2500 FPS. (test barrel)

26.4 Gr. of 4198, under a 110 Gr. Sierra JHP, shoots real well out of my custom XP-100, 18" 1:9 barrel, seated .010" off the lands. (too long for the mini) and might be a bit hot for a SA. Any other powders worth trying with the lighter bullet weights? Thanks, Paul.
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Old December 12, 2009, 12:25 AM   #6
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CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I have overloaded SKS rifles with work ups of W296 and 180 gr bullets:
1) The steel cases with Berdan primers are the weakest.
2) The old Rem small Boxer primer brass is not appreciably stronger than the Win large Brass primer brass?????
3) The firing pin will bend and cannot be fixed.

What does it all mean?
Don't overload an SKS, it is not up to the task.
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Old December 12, 2009, 03:36 AM   #7
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135 gr

I now you asked about 110's and lighter, but I couldn't help commenting on my 135 gr Sierra ssp/23 gr H4198. An ideal woods/whitetail combo in Mini or M77II.

I have some old articles on x39 and will dig them up and provide you w/ the light bullet loads, but too late tonight.

I have come into a supply (several hundred) older speer and sierra bullets in the 110-125 range and will be loading them up after deer season.
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Old December 12, 2009, 07:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
but I couldn't help commenting on my 135 gr Sierra ssp/23 gr H4198.
This is my favorite Mini-30 Whitetail bullet. Outstanding accuracy and terminal performance. To bad Sierra discontinued it several years ago. When I run out I guess I will use the 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.

I like H 322 and N-130, or I should say my Mini-30 likes 322 and N-130.





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Old December 12, 2009, 07:28 AM   #9
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Nice shooting steve. A few other good combos I have run across.





26.0 grs. AA-1680 Hornady 123 gr. .310 SP
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Old December 12, 2009, 07:36 AM   #10
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Good shootin there res. I use a lot of 1680 with the lighter 110 and 125gr bullets as well. Haven't had much luck with it with the 130gr and above though.

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Old December 12, 2009, 09:26 AM   #11
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Red Caddy,

You posts still haven't addressed the point Res45 brought up: is your Mini-30 one with the old .308" groove diameter barrel, or is it one with the newer .310"? Whether those short, light bullets will shoot well in it or not will be influenced by that, potentially to being the difference between 1" groups and 3" groups, assuming all else is perfect?
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Old December 12, 2009, 01:09 PM   #12
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unclenick, it's a 196 series S/S and the bore slugs .3084" (4 slug average) It shoots Wolf 125 Gr. HP to ~ 1.200" @ 100 Yd. from the bench. That's better than I can hold offhand most day's.

The Wolf stuff works OK for the pest eradication I'm doing right now, most shots are well under 100 Yd. and I don't need a DRT kill, Just dead. What I'm trying to build is a faster, lighter, more destructive round that will work close up, in the palmetto's and oak hummock's.

The mini is much faster handling than my FN, and even handloading, cheaper to shoot in the quantities I'm shooting. I just want to improve the kill/wound ratio. Am I, in your opinion, on the right track, going light/fast ? Tks. Paul
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Old December 12, 2009, 01:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
pest eradication
How big are these pest? If their little guys, I found a couple of good loads with 110gr Hornady VMax, R-7 and 1680.

Hornady #7 110gr VMax and SP
IMR 4227 Start 17.3gr 2100fps Max 19.8gr 2300fps
I do not recommend this load. In my Mini-30 4227 will not consistently cycle the action.

N120 Start 19.3gr 2100fps Max 23.4gr 2400fps

AA 1680 Start 19.3gr 2100fps Max 28.5gr 2600fps

IMR 4198 Start 20.3gr 2100fps Max 26.6gr 2500fps.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/P...0and%20285.pdf

If you are looking for speed in the light weights, AA 1680 is hard to beat. I was designed for the 7.62x39.
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Old December 12, 2009, 02:43 PM   #14
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Steve, I'm using the mini-30 on hog's 80 lbs. and under. Anything over that, the FN in .308 get's the nod. Usually, when we jump a heard, my shooting partner will take the big ones, sow's first, and I try to get all the runners. Towards morning, I set up over some sour corn in a hummock and pick off some of the one's that get away.
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Old December 12, 2009, 06:23 PM   #15
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Steve, I'm using the mini-30 on hog's 80 lbs. and under. Anything over that, the FN in .308 get's the nod. Usually, when we jump a heard, my shooting partner will take the big ones, sow's first, and I try to get all the runners. Towards morning, I set up over some sour corn in a hummock and pick off some of the one's that get away.
125gr Nosler BT and a max load of 1680!
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Old December 13, 2009, 10:29 AM   #16
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I prefer H4198 to the commonly-recommended AA1680, but never used the IMR variant of 4198.

My pet load (MOA-ish in my hunting ARs) is 27gr of H4198 in a R-P small-primer brass, CCI SR primers, and either a Hornady 123gr for deer or a Sierra 125gr for hog. The Sierra is very stout and I have used it with success (pass-thru shot at contact distance, stopping under the off hide) on a 500lb boar.
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Old December 13, 2009, 03:48 PM   #17
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WOW, thats some good looking data and some really fine groups. I just bought 1K of the Speer 110 GR. JHP (I use them in my .308, .30 carbine, 30-30 and 300 Savage) so I'll wring out your pet's in my mini and post the best groups.

Anybody want to hazzard a guess at a starting load for the 85 Gr JHP in the X 39, large primer Starline brass ? Outta be a hoot to see what that light bullet does to one of R. Lee Ermy's OPFOR melons... Thanks again, Paul.
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Old December 18, 2009, 04:06 PM   #18
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Starline makes 7.62x25 for pistol, but no 7.62x39 AFAIK.

I can't find anything in a manual to match the 85 grain bullet. It may be too light to produce operational functioning in the Mini 30. I can tell you that QuickLOAD thinks the 4198's and even the 4227's are too slow for best performance with that light bullet weight. About 25 grains of Lil' Gun with the bullet seated to 1.9" COL would be in starting load range, according to the program. CAUTION: This is not from a loading manual and is strictly a computer simulation, so you try it at your own risk. Neither the board nor I can be responsible for the results.
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