Help with multiple targets...

WP99 · November 9, 2004, 11:40 PM

I am practicing shooting multiple targets . I usually line up 3 to 4 targets side by side and shoot each target twice.

My problem is this- On the first target two shots are 'on target', on the succeeding targets my 'pairs' tend to hit low. What am I doing wrong?

I am not moving while shooting. I just stand in front of the targets at 7 yards out.

Would appreciate any input.

joerng · November 10, 2004, 02:06 AM

to tranning to shoot mutiple targets. first, putting your targets next to each other on the range does not train you to shoot multiple targets. you need to spread them out so you have to acctually change body position inorder to shoot them, if your range has alows provides you the space.
now you need to do lead up drills that can help you ingage mutiples better. one of them is a rythm drill, it is done by shooting a controled pair at the same target over and over with same amount of time between each pair of shots, and the same amount of time between the shots them self. it will give your body an amont of time to abide by between targets that will improve your multiple target shots by allowing your reflexes to take over because there will be no question when your finger is going to pull the trigger. along with that drill, speed drills are always good to do. but make sure you always put your self on the clock for speed.
when you get all that down you can go into multiple targets. i like to put mine out side my line of site. so i have to reaquire every time i shoot a new one. also you have to lead with your eyes, not your head but your eyes should shift to the next target almost the same time time as your last shot goes off from the previous target. good luck... joe.

LAK · November 10, 2004, 02:44 AM

Sounds like lack of follow-through; dropping the muzzle. This can be anticipation of recoil; but getting it right on the first target and subsequently losing it on the rest suggests that you are trying to go too fast in general and are losing some concentration in the process.

Try slowing right down and concentrate on follow-through as well as making sure the front sight isn't sitting low in the rear notch. If this cures the problem you simply need to place more concentration on them with repetitive drill albeit at a slower pace. Once you have that nailed, slowly increase the pace.

With all shooting drills, the key is to establish the fundamentals; stance, grip, draw (if applicable), presentation, sight alignment, sight picture, trigger control, follow-through etc, and practice them in a slow, deliberate and consistant manner. Repetition done this way without bad habits will build consistancy, and from that foundation speed can be developed slowly and gradually.

45 Fu · November 10, 2004, 07:34 AM

Start slow then work your way up to speed. By starting at a slow pace you ingrain good shooting habits (sight alignment/trigger control) and build on that foundation. Do not keep your target position static - change the spacing from time to time to keep you from falling into a set way of thinking and shooting.

When you say the shots are hitting low, that may not be necessarily bad, although it may not be good either. In a fight you will not have the opportunity to shoot perfect pairs on the target because your targets will be moving and, hopefully, so will you. Focus on seeing your front sight when the shot breaks and control it. Speed is a good thing only when coupled with accurate fire. Work on your accuracy first, then add speed little by little.

Also try moving. If your range allows this it is great practice for what will actuall happen (or should) in a fight. Although your targets will not move (on the range) it will help you to be able to function while things are fluid.

Hope this helps.

Phil306 · November 10, 2004, 12:50 PM

Tough thing to explain, easier to show. Everyone else has given great advice. I'll just chime in few more thing:

After you fire and your going to your next target, move your eyes to the target, then follow with the gun. Pick up your front sight, then fire. Repeat the process.

Don't lock yourself into just two rounds per target, one round per target, etc. Vary the number of shots. You don't know how many rounds its going to take to put someone down.

Jeff Gonzalez wrote a good article about this, awhile ago in, I believe, SWAT Magazine about it.

I know the old spread fire drills and all, however, I believe in dealing with one problem at a time. Just a personal opinion.

alvrez2 · November 22, 2004, 11:48 PM

most people,when practicing this drill shoot left to right. since most are right eye dominant it is easier to track in this manner. Varying your pattern and shooting slow at first to develop consistency then develop speed are fundamental. Place your targets at varying intervals and practice shooting in different ways; left to right, right to left, inside out, outside in, etc. do this from a stationary location first (shooting from cover) then practice shooting while you are moving (stick and move). Remember go slow and develop accuracy, speed will come later.

Jeff Gonzales · November 24, 2004, 08:57 PM

Phil, glad you like the article. There is no doubt about it that multiple threats are probably the most complex of the problems to deal with. Here is a link to the article, hopefully it will come through...Multiple Threats article.

Here are a few things to consider, first you are conducting range drills. They don't have a lot of realism involved. Start of with just 2 targets and engage each with 2 shots. The next step would be to go to shooting each with 3 shots a piece. Then go to ramdon shots on the two targets. The reality is 2 shots develops a presumputous mindset.

In our Multiple Threat class we debunk a lot of myths out there that take too much time to go into in this format.

Just remeber that things get very complicated very quickly with multiple threats.

Enjoy the article.

Later,

gordo b. · November 24, 2004, 09:06 PM

The MAIN thing about "dropping" your shots IS follow thru! Before you touch off the first shot concentrate on the placement of your second shot by trigger reset. Try side stepping a few steps as you engage a line of targets, believe it or not this HELPED my shot groups as I wasn't thinking:'damn I wonder if I hit it right' but was rather concentrating on technique.

November 9, 2004, 11:40 PM	#1
WP99 Member Join Date: October 1, 2004 Posts: 17	Help with multiple targets... I am practicing shooting multiple targets . I usually line up 3 to 4 targets side by side and shoot each target twice. My problem is this- On the first target two shots are 'on target', on the succeeding targets my 'pairs' tend to hit low. What am I doing wrong? I am not moving while shooting. I just stand in front of the targets at 7 yards out. Would appreciate any input.

November 10, 2004, 02:06 AM	#2
joerng Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Location: WA Posts: 28	there is more than you think... to tranning to shoot mutiple targets. first, putting your targets next to each other on the range does not train you to shoot multiple targets. you need to spread them out so you have to acctually change body position inorder to shoot them, if your range has alows provides you the space. now you need to do lead up drills that can help you ingage mutiples better. one of them is a rythm drill, it is done by shooting a controled pair at the same target over and over with same amount of time between each pair of shots, and the same amount of time between the shots them self. it will give your body an amont of time to abide by between targets that will improve your multiple target shots by allowing your reflexes to take over because there will be no question when your finger is going to pull the trigger. along with that drill, speed drills are always good to do. but make sure you always put your self on the clock for speed. when you get all that down you can go into multiple targets. i like to put mine out side my line of site. so i have to reaquire every time i shoot a new one. also you have to lead with your eyes, not your head but your eyes should shift to the next target almost the same time time as your last shot goes off from the previous target. good luck... joe. __________________ SLOW IS SMOOTH, SMOOTH IS FAST,AND FAST IS DEADLY... www.dreamsorgoals.com

November 10, 2004, 07:34 AM	#4
45 Fu Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 422	Start slow... Start slow then work your way up to speed. By starting at a slow pace you ingrain good shooting habits (sight alignment/trigger control) and build on that foundation. Do not keep your target position static - change the spacing from time to time to keep you from falling into a set way of thinking and shooting. When you say the shots are hitting low, that may not be necessarily bad, although it may not be good either. In a fight you will not have the opportunity to shoot perfect pairs on the target because your targets will be moving and, hopefully, so will you. Focus on seeing your front sight when the shot breaks and control it. Speed is a good thing only when coupled with accurate fire. Work on your accuracy first, then add speed little by little. Also try moving. If your range allows this it is great practice for what will actuall happen (or should) in a fight. Although your targets will not move (on the range) it will help you to be able to function while things are fluid. Hope this helps.

November 10, 2004, 12:50 PM	#5
Phil306 Member Join Date: May 24, 2004 Location: Dublin, California Posts: 76	Tough thing to explain, easier to show. Everyone else has given great advice. I'll just chime in few more thing: After you fire and your going to your next target, move your eyes to the target, then follow with the gun. Pick up your front sight, then fire. Repeat the process. Don't lock yourself into just two rounds per target, one round per target, etc. Vary the number of shots. You don't know how many rounds its going to take to put someone down. Jeff Gonzalez wrote a good article about this, awhile ago in, I believe, SWAT Magazine about it. I know the old spread fire drills and all, however, I believe in dealing with one problem at a time. Just a personal opinion. __________________ "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Sir Winston Churchill

November 22, 2004, 11:48 PM	#6
alvrez2 Junior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Idaho Posts: 13	most people,when practicing this drill shoot left to right. since most are right eye dominant it is easier to track in this manner. Varying your pattern and shooting slow at first to develop consistency then develop speed are fundamental. Place your targets at varying intervals and practice shooting in different ways; left to right, right to left, inside out, outside in, etc. do this from a stationary location first (shooting from cover) then practice shooting while you are moving (stick and move). Remember go slow and develop accuracy, speed will come later. __________________ Gun control is hitting what you are shooting at. Aloha

November 10, 2004, 02:44 AM	#3
LAK Junior member Join Date: May 14, 2002 Posts: 2,251	Sounds like lack of follow-through; dropping the muzzle. This can be anticipation of recoil; but getting it right on the first target and subsequently losing it on the rest suggests that you are trying to go too fast in general and are losing some concentration in the process. Try slowing right down and concentrate on follow-through as well as making sure the front sight isn't sitting low in the rear notch. If this cures the problem you simply need to place more concentration on them with repetitive drill albeit at a slower pace. Once you have that nailed, slowly increase the pace. With all shooting drills, the key is to establish the fundamentals; stance, grip, draw (if applicable), presentation, sight alignment, sight picture, trigger control, follow-through etc, and practice them in a slow, deliberate and consistant manner. Repetition done this way without bad habits will build consistancy, and from that foundation speed can be developed slowly and gradually.

November 24, 2004, 08:57 PM	#7
Jeff Gonzales Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 126	SWAT Article Phil, glad you like the article. There is no doubt about it that multiple threats are probably the most complex of the problems to deal with. Here is a link to the article, hopefully it will come through...Multiple Threats article. Here are a few things to consider, first you are conducting range drills. They don't have a lot of realism involved. Start of with just 2 targets and engage each with 2 shots. The next step would be to go to shooting each with 3 shots a piece. Then go to ramdon shots on the two targets. The reality is 2 shots develops a presumputous mindset. In our Multiple Threat class we debunk a lot of myths out there that take too much time to go into in this format. Just remeber that things get very complicated very quickly with multiple threats. Enjoy the article. Later, __________________ Jeff Gonzales Director of Training Trident Concepts, LLC.

November 24, 2004, 09:06 PM	#8
gordo b. Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2002 Location: Peoples republik of Calif. Posts: 961	The MAIN thing about "dropping" your shots IS follow thru! Before you touch off the first shot concentrate on the placement of your second shot by trigger reset. Try side stepping a few steps as you engage a line of targets, believe it or not this HELPED my shot groups as I wasn't thinking:'damn I wonder if I hit it right' but was rather concentrating on technique.