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Old October 28, 2006, 08:49 PM   #1
carl418
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Reloading 45 Colt powder question

I bought a S&W model 25-5, and want to load my own. I thought I would try some Hornady 255 grain LFN cowboy bullets. I usually use Unique for 357 mag and 44 mag, but I have heard that in a 45 Colt, I may run into problems, because of so little powder in the case.

Any suggestions to powder and load data? thanks...
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Old October 28, 2006, 10:14 PM   #2
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I think TrailBoss would suit you.

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Old October 28, 2006, 11:49 PM   #3
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i use w231 in my little snub nose but i've seen many loads listed with unique.i have many books,hornady lists it,nosler,sierra,speer,lyman,rcbs,and alliant powders books all list it.some of those can be found online for free,or you can do what i do.when i get a new gun,i buy this book that has all those manuels in the same book for that given caliber called one book one caliber from midway.
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Old October 29, 2006, 12:40 PM   #4
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I use medium charges of Universal Clays, but...

Titegroup was designed to alleviate those fears; recommend.

(Or you can try 7.3--8.0g Unique).
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Old October 31, 2006, 12:00 AM   #5
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I've used Trailboss, W231 & Universal. All work well for with a 250-255gr LRNFP .45 colt, in mild and medium loads (within SAAMI specs).

If you can get the manufacture loading data for the powder/'s you plan to try, via their web site or reloading manual, under "Cowboy Loads" you should do fine. If you are still unsure, continue the research
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Old October 31, 2006, 10:55 AM   #6
JoeHatley
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I may run into problems, because of so little powder in the case.
I've heard this too, but my guns run fine with Bullseye.



625 MG in 45 Colt

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Old October 31, 2006, 11:21 AM   #7
Mike Irwin
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I load .44 Special and have run into the same problem -- big case, teeny tiny amounts of powder with 231 and other powders suitable for this cartridge.

So, I switched to Trail Boss. I've been VERY happy with the results I've gotten so far.
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Old October 31, 2006, 11:19 PM   #8
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double tap
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Old October 31, 2006, 11:20 PM   #9
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Unique works better for me than anything else I can find for standard 45 colt loads. TiteGroup was position sensitive and temperature sensitive for me, almost as bad as 231. Clays works well, as does Bullseye, for soft loads. I haven't gotten around to trying Trailboss yet.

8.0 grains of Unique is the most common load for a 250-255 lead bullet. It works great in everything I have tried it in.
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Old October 31, 2006, 11:25 PM   #10
Kenneth L. Walters
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8 grains of Unique

I've had a very hard time getting cast bullets to work in a 45 Colt. You used 8 grains of Unique. What alloy? What cast bullet? What sizing diameter?
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Old November 1, 2006, 12:41 AM   #11
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For my .45 Colt Mountain Gun I use Unique mostly, but 800X works very well too. I personally have never tried trailboss but it does fill the case up.
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Old November 1, 2006, 04:25 PM   #12
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.45 Colt

I shoot 7.5in Blackhawks, and load 10.0gr Unique under a 250gr SWC (hard cast) for serious shooting. I find it very hard hitting, accurate (even at long range), reasonably clean burning, and not unpleasant to shoot. Case life is good, and the powder fills the case enough (about 1/2) so a double charge is obvious. The load also performs well in my Contender, although in that gun it is pushing the warm side just a bit.

I find that 8gr delivers good to outstanding accuracy in my guns.

Do not load heavy in Colt guns, or their clones. It isn't worth it.
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Old November 4, 2006, 10:07 AM   #13
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Ken, alloy has ranged from straight lead with 1% tin to water dropped alloy in the 25 range. Sizing has been whatever the gun needs, from .452" to .459". Lube has been commercial and home made.

Throat size and commercial hard lubes are the biggest problems with lead bullets, the third thing is 99% of the commercial cast bullets are WAY WAY WAY too hard for normal 45 Colt loads. Something in the 7-10 Brinell hardness range is about perfect.
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Old November 7, 2006, 07:18 PM   #14
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I was having trouble getting accuracy out of an NEF .410/45 lC, so I had it tapped and put a scope on it. Then I went from the .452 bullets I was casting and went to some .456 conicals for BP pistols in 220 gr. I am putting it on top of 8.6. gr unique and am now getting excellent accuracy. I also use Lee liquid alox with 0 leading. The bullets are WW and are shot as cast.

There is no recoil, and it's a real joy to shoot. Keep in mid that NEFs have a notoriously oversized bore, but after slugging the barrel, .456 was pretty close to perfect.
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Old November 7, 2006, 10:25 PM   #15
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Have to vote for Unique. Versatile and works.

Take Care

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Old November 8, 2006, 12:42 AM   #16
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I'd say Unique is the standard but...

The Speer 13 has an SR 4756 load for a 255 gr LSWC that shoots great in my 45 Colt Blackhawk. It fills the case enough to easily spot an overcharge and it burns cleaner than unique in my opinion. Great target and plinking load.
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Old November 9, 2006, 08:19 PM   #17
carl418
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UPDATE... I loaded, and shot, 50 rounds using Trail Boss, with 5.5 grains and the Hornady 255 grain LFN cowboy bullets. I had decent, but not great, accuracy and felt the load a tad bit anemic. Granted, I usually shoot 44 mags and 357 mags... but, it still didn't feel very strong to me.

I also noticed a lot of black soot on the sides of the spent cases. Doesn't that mean the load wasn't strong enough to properly seal the case against the cylinder?

I'm going to try 8 grains of Unique, to see how it shoots. Another update soon...
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Old November 10, 2006, 11:02 AM   #18
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Quote:
Doesn't that mean the load wasn't strong enough to properly seal the case against the cylinder?
Yup, almost always. A firmer crimp and/or higher power charge can help minumize "blow by".

However... if the load is accurate, you may just want ot live the the extra clean up.

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Old November 10, 2006, 12:14 PM   #19
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Revolvers can be touchy about bullets and powder, but before you even get there, it is important to know that any mechanical error will be exaggerated by lead bullets; sometimes, greatly exaggerated. I always do the thumb drag test for cylinder timing, then use a bore light to check that the chambers line up coaxial with the bore in battery. I use a feeler gauge to make sure the barrel cylinder gap is in the .002”-.006” range. I hold the gun up sideways with an illuminated white wall behind it to check that the gap is uniform behind the barrel. I look at the crown for symmetry and look to see that all the rifling lands are equally tall at the edge of the crown (I’ve run into two guns with uneven rifling in the past, and both keyholed badly; the problem was clearly visible to the naked eye). All these checks can be done in the store before you take delivery, and if a revolver fails one of them, I won’t accept it.

When I bought my Redhawk, I was fortunate that there were three identical ones in the shop at the time, and I got to compare them. Two of the three failed one or more of the above checks. That was in the 80’s, when quality control was not as good as today, but I still look very carefully. I’ve also acquired a couple of guns when helping out friends who needed the cash, so I couldn’t select them. I’ve discovered these can often be returned for free factory service to correct basic mechanical complaints. Great revolver smiths are few and far between these days, so the more you can get right from the start, the better off you are.

For lead bullets in a revolver, I don't even bother any more until I have slugged the bore and each chamber throat to be sure there is no constriction where the barrel threads meet the frame. If there is, I firelap the tube straight before reaming the chambers uniform. I then ream the chambers. If I see a need to re-crown, I do that before the firelapping, so the lapping takes off any burrs from the crowing. The accuracy difference is phenomenal. I’ve seen three different guns shooting 4”-6” at 25 yards come down to under an inch after this treatment. This is with lead bullets.

If you cast, try the Lee Tumble Lube bullet designs. The little lube grooves smash down easily, so they don’t need to be sized. I have found the .38 wadcutters in this design shoot groups about half the size of commercial wadcutters in my Smith K-frame target revolver, loaded and fired as-cast.

Many people don’t realize how little a bullet needs to move in a straight-walled case to significantly change pressure, ignition, and barrel time. Be sure you crimp adequately to prevent bullet relocation under recoil. This problem is exaggerated by lubed lead bullets because they are more slippery in the case mouth than jacketed bullets are.

If you are using a snubby, even Bullseye is too slow to burn well in anything shorter than a 3” barrel. Go to Clays or VV N310 and you will be amazed how much your velocity spread decreases, even if you can’t load up as high. Many snubby’s that people thought just wouldn’t shoot actually had up to 150 fps shot to shot variation with what they thought was a “fast” pistol powder. When a load starts out at 650 fps, losing 150 fps is pretty bad news. Super fast powder and a tight crimp can solve the problem.

In the .45 LC, light charges will knock around in the empty case space, so positioning the powder over the primer and keeping it there with a wad will help. Cut slightly oversize discs of newspaper and push them in over the powder with a dowel. Keep the cartridges upright until you load and you will probably be happy with this approach. Polyester fiber tufts are another solution. I saw one fellow recommend collecting lint from his clothes dryer lint trap for the purpose. I haven’t tried that yet. You can also shorten the case space a little by putting P-wads under lead bullets (see the store forms at www.neconos.com). Going to the same very fast powders I mentioned for snubbies will also mitigate some of the problem by getting to peak pressure before the bullet even gets out of the case, even with poor ignition. Using magnum primers in some of these light target loads can also help.

Nick
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