45 ACP Reloading Problem

Reef · June 16, 2012, 08:20 AM

Hey guys, you all have been a great resource for this new reloader. I've been cutting my teeth on 9mm Lugar and feel pretty comfortable with that round, so I set up my RCBS die to reload some 45 ACP. I used my Winchester brass that was once fired, cleaned, de-caped and resized. The instructions on the carbide die set say the case mouth should be expanded (belled) just enough to accept the bullet base- no more!

I followed instructions for the bullet seating and the got the OAL perfect. Then I pulled the bullet because I was just using a dummy round to get the dies set up. This is when I noticed the bullet had a "ring" around it. Looks like from the base to about .244" up the side of the bullet is compressed. Trying to attach a picture to illustrate the issue that I'm having.

Any help is appreciated.

Reef

YARDDOG(1) · June 16, 2012, 08:41 AM

Are you using a Lee FCD (Factory Crimp Die) ?? If so Back off on the crimp JMO ; )
Y/D

overkill0084 · June 16, 2012, 09:20 AM

+1 on back off the crimp. You only need enough to knock off the bell and to give an ever so slight taper. .45 acp doesn't need much in the way of crimping.
Also, Plated bullets are less tolerant of that sort of thing than other bullet types.

Adamantium · June 16, 2012, 10:05 AM

That doesn't look like anything a Lee FCD would do, I think you have your seating die screwed in too far as some are designed to crimp if they are screwed in beyond a certain point.

I would remove your seating die and raise a shell that has been through the expander die all the way up in your press. Then start lowering your seating die onto the shell until it contacts it and stops. Lower your lock ring down to the press, lower the shell and then give the die about a quarter turn to tighten it down. After that adjust overall length using the plug at the top of the die.

For something soft shooting like a 45acp the two goals of the seating die are to get the correct OAL and remove any bell from the expander. It only needs enough "crimp" to straighten out the neck to ensure proper feeding. If you need more crimp beyond a quarter turn after contact do it about another quarter turn at a time. Remember this will shorten your OAL so make sure to correct it once you are done. For a seating die the difference between just enough and way too much is only a full turn or so.

Reef · June 16, 2012, 10:09 AM

Only using RCBS.

mrawesome22 · June 16, 2012, 10:23 AM

The word crimp is deceiving when it comes to 45ACP.

You just want to remove the flare.

Sent from Tapatalk 2.

jag2 · June 16, 2012, 10:29 AM

Adam is right, you need to back off the seating die. It should be fairly obvious when you are at the end of you're stroke. You should feel the bullet sliding into the case but right near the end you will feel more tension. You can back out the die until the entire stroke feels the same. At that point you aren't crimping at all, which is okay for a lot of rounds. Your choice if you want a slight crimp, just screw the die back in a little. I don't crimp my 45 acp and do 9mm with and without, can't really tell the difference shooting wise.

tom234 · June 16, 2012, 10:29 AM

Are you sure you dies are for tapered crimp and not roll crimp ?
You should have a tapered crimp that ranges from .469" to .471"

ragwd · June 16, 2012, 10:36 AM

When i first started I would back off the crimp and only seat, do a batch of 100 or so, then back off the seat and lower the crimp a little at a time till i just flattened the flare. I would then drop every tenth one into a barrel from my disassembled pistol to see that it chambered correctly. this adds a step but for me it helped me understand the difference of seating and crimping. good luck.

Reef · June 16, 2012, 10:54 AM

Thank you all. I did exactly what Adam said and it fixed my problem. I'm so new at this I thought the deformation of the bullet was caused by not enough flare from the expander die and the bullet being "squeezed" into the case. I didn't realize crimping could do that to the bullet.

Thank you all very much for the help.

Reef

Jerry45 · June 16, 2012, 11:01 AM

I've loaded thousands of .45 ACP with RCBS dies. As stated, you have the seating die screwed down too far and are over-crimping. Follow Adamantium's instruction for setting your seating/crimping die and you'll be good to go. All you need is to straighten out the flair and put a "little" pressure on the bullet.

g.willikers · June 16, 2012, 03:32 PM

Also be aware that the mouth of the case is used to "headspace" the round.
The thickness of the front of the case, the part that surrounds the bullet, is meant to contact the front of the chamber in the barrel, in order to properly locate the cartridge in the chamber.
Too much crimp can mess that up, by allowing the cartridge to move too far forward.
Proper headspace is very important for many reasons.
If in doubt how much crimp is correct, just compare your loaded rounds with a factory one.

David Bachelder · June 16, 2012, 04:21 PM

If I'm not mistaken .... the RCBS three die set seating die will provide a roll or taper crimp. Depending on the die adjustment.

Adamantium · June 16, 2012, 04:30 PM

Thats a smart way to do it. All you would need is a seperate shell holder and you could reload both 45acp and 45 auto rim.

June 16, 2012, 08:41 AM	#2
YARDDOG(1) Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: GATOR COUNTRY HA HA HA! Posts: 721	Are you using a Lee FCD (Factory Crimp Die) ?? If so Back off on the crimp JMO ; ) Y/D __________________ There's a GATOR in the bushes & She's Callin my name >Molly Hatchett<

June 16, 2012, 09:20 AM	#3
overkill0084 Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2010 Location: Northern, UT Posts: 1,162	+1 on back off the crimp. You only need enough to knock off the bell and to give an ever so slight taper. .45 acp doesn't need much in the way of crimping. Also, Plated bullets are less tolerant of that sort of thing than other bullet types. __________________ Cheers, Greg “At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child – miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.” — P.J. O’Rourke

June 16, 2012, 10:05 AM	#4
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	That doesn't look like anything a Lee FCD would do, I think you have your seating die screwed in too far as some are designed to crimp if they are screwed in beyond a certain point. I would remove your seating die and raise a shell that has been through the expander die all the way up in your press. Then start lowering your seating die onto the shell until it contacts it and stops. Lower your lock ring down to the press, lower the shell and then give the die about a quarter turn to tighten it down. After that adjust overall length using the plug at the top of the die. For something soft shooting like a 45acp the two goals of the seating die are to get the correct OAL and remove any bell from the expander. It only needs enough "crimp" to straighten out the neck to ensure proper feeding. If you need more crimp beyond a quarter turn after contact do it about another quarter turn at a time. Remember this will shorten your OAL so make sure to correct it once you are done. For a seating die the difference between just enough and way too much is only a full turn or so. __________________ New gun, same ol' shot.

June 16, 2012, 10:54 AM	#10
Reef Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2012 Location: East Texas Posts: 105	Many Thanks, again Thank you all. I did exactly what Adam said and it fixed my problem. I'm so new at this I thought the deformation of the bullet was caused by not enough flare from the expander die and the bullet being "squeezed" into the case. I didn't realize crimping could do that to the bullet. Thank you all very much for the help. Reef

June 16, 2012, 11:01 AM	#11
Jerry45 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2000 Location: Metairie, Louisiana Posts: 890	I've loaded thousands of .45 ACP with RCBS dies. As stated, you have the seating die screwed down too far and are over-crimping. Follow Adamantium's instruction for setting your seating/crimping die and you'll be good to go. All you need is to straighten out the flair and put a "little" pressure on the bullet. __________________ Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!

June 16, 2012, 10:09 AM	#5
Reef Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2012 Location: East Texas Posts: 105	Only using RCBS.

June 16, 2012, 10:23 AM	#6
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	The word crimp is deceiving when it comes to 45ACP. You just want to remove the flare. Sent from Tapatalk 2.

June 16, 2012, 10:29 AM	#7
jag2 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: dallas Posts: 773	Adam is right, you need to back off the seating die. It should be fairly obvious when you are at the end of you're stroke. You should feel the bullet sliding into the case but right near the end you will feel more tension. You can back out the die until the entire stroke feels the same. At that point you aren't crimping at all, which is okay for a lot of rounds. Your choice if you want a slight crimp, just screw the die back in a little. I don't crimp my 45 acp and do 9mm with and without, can't really tell the difference shooting wise.

June 16, 2012, 10:29 AM	#8
tom234 Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 753	Are you sure you dies are for tapered crimp and not roll crimp ? You should have a tapered crimp that ranges from .469" to .471"

June 16, 2012, 10:36 AM	#9
ragwd Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2006 Posts: 925	When i first started I would back off the crimp and only seat, do a batch of 100 or so, then back off the seat and lower the crimp a little at a time till i just flattened the flare. I would then drop every tenth one into a barrel from my disassembled pistol to see that it chambered correctly. this adds a step but for me it helped me understand the difference of seating and crimping. good luck.

June 16, 2012, 03:32 PM	#12
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Also be aware that the mouth of the case is used to "headspace" the round. The thickness of the front of the case, the part that surrounds the bullet, is meant to contact the front of the chamber in the barrel, in order to properly locate the cartridge in the chamber. Too much crimp can mess that up, by allowing the cartridge to move too far forward. Proper headspace is very important for many reasons. If in doubt how much crimp is correct, just compare your loaded rounds with a factory one. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

June 16, 2012, 04:21 PM	#13
David Bachelder Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2011 Location: Trinity, Texas Posts: 636	If I'm not mistaken .... the RCBS three die set seating die will provide a roll or taper crimp. Depending on the die adjustment. __________________ David Bachelder Trinity, Texas I load, 9mm Luger, 38 and 40 S&W, 38 Special, 357Magnum, 45ACP, 45 Colt, 223, 300 AAC, 243 and 30-06

June 16, 2012, 04:30 PM	#14
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	Thats a smart way to do it. All you would need is a seperate shell holder and you could reload both 45acp and 45 auto rim. __________________ New gun, same ol' shot.

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