RCBS die issues

mrdaputer · February 21, 2016, 12:29 AM

Hi all I am having a issue with my seating and crimp die. I bought the RCBS Carbide 3-Die Set with Taper Crimp 9mm Luger. All went well till I go to crimp.I have my depth set at 1.51 OAL using E-treme bullets 9mm-124 RN
Diameter: 0.355 using Range brass on my Hornady LNL.
When I go to crimp it did not crimp enough so I could push the bullet down. I kept adjusting it down 1/16 of a turn. I kept doing this untill the bullet wouldn't push down any more but the bullet still can be turned in the casing. If I crimp any more it will bulge. I even bought a extra die as some said do not seat and crimp with the same die. I still have the issue of the bullet turning using both dies. So where am I messing up at?

burrhead · February 21, 2016, 01:21 AM

Too much crimp. You're causing the brass to bulge at the mouth. All you want to do is iron out the bell. Case tension holds the bullet, not the crimp.

hartcreek · February 21, 2016, 04:20 AM

First off what the heck are you putting 1.51 OAL 9mm in and having them plunk?

Second read your instructions as you are not setting your die up right.

You set the die in the press and set OAL first. Then you back off the seater stem and adjust for crimp then you readadjust the seater stem so that it just touches the bullet.

Now as what holds the bullet in place is a combination of neck tension and crimp.

Some of us use either a FCD or like me a roll crimp. Since 9mm headspaces on the casemouth the crimp is only one or two thousands which is just enough to straighten out the bell.

noylj · February 21, 2016, 04:23 AM

Take a case and size it. Measure the case ID. It should be way under the bullet diameter. Some 9x19 case have case walls so thin that you would have to get a special sizing die to get them small enough. I just dispose of these cases when I find them.
Now, run the case through the expander/flare die.
Measure the case ID (below the flare). It should be 0.001-0.002" under bullet diameter.
If the ID is bullet diameter or larger, the expander is too big.
If it is 0.003" or more under bullet diameter, the expander is too small.
The bullet is ONLY held by case tension. You aren't "crimping" the case as much as removing any case mouth flare. That is all you need--remove the case flare so the cartridge drops in the barrel with a nice "plunk" sound.
Finally, after you seat a bullet, try to push the bullet into the case with your thumb/finger. Reject any rounds where the bullets move.
Next, are you saying that you are loading a 9mm cartridge to a COL (Cartridge Overall Length) of 1.51"?
Do you mean 1.051" or 1.15" or something?

F. Guffey · February 21, 2016, 09:01 AM

I built a 1911 and took it to the range; it is accurate and likes new ammo. I reloaded the fired cases and found it did not like reloads. It was not about all reloads; it does not like cases that have the appearance of having swallowed a bullet, something like a snake after a meal.

After I did some ‘experiments’ and measurements I found I could make my reloads look like factory ammo by running the reloads into my carbide sizing die far enough to remove the bullet line. That was when I ‘discovered’ the pistol had nothing against reloads. It could not tell the difference between factory and reloaded ammo.

Then there was this snarky person, he said “Why don’t you fix it?” I said I like the accuracy and that little tight chamber can not be hurting my brass.

I am surrounded by a few very disciplined reloaders, one suggested I did not know how to reload for the 1911. So; arrangements were made to meet him at the range with 4 of his 1911s and my 3. His ammo would not work in my build. He offered his ammo to ever shooter with a 45ACP. They love free ammo. I do not live that far from the range so I drove home, removed the appearance the cases had swallowed the bullet and then returned. His ammo flew through my 1911 like it was factory, new over the counter ammo. I have a scope for that one 1911. I do not use it but I have it JIC.

F. Guffey

higgite · February 21, 2016, 09:04 AM

I agree that you're probably setting the die up wrong. Pull one of the bullets. If it is visibly narrower below the case mouth or has a "waist", you are crimping too much and crushing the bullet. I load X-treme plated bullets, both RN and HP, and have no problems with bullet retention when crimping just enough to straighten out the case mouth flare, no more. Pulled bullets still look brand new.

F. Guffey · February 21, 2016, 09:17 AM

Before the Internet it was suggested crimping could be a bad habit. Remember; that was before everyone became an expert. It was suggested if the crimp was not applied correctly the crimp could lessen ‘bullet hold’. Back then a few makers of reloading equipment believed applying the crimp while seating the bullet was a conflict. They thought the crimp was applied with a hint of effort. They thought moving the bullet down while crimping expanded the case below the crimp and I believe they were correct and nothing has changed except reloaders use tension instead of bullet hold; with no way to measure it. None of my gages measure in tensions.

I want all the bullet hold I can get. There is no such thing as too much bullet hold.

F. Guffey

Tsquared · February 21, 2016, 09:48 AM

I have the RCBS Carbide 3-Die Set with Taper Crimp in 9mm and I have used the E-treme bullets 9mm-124 RN. I set the OAL at 1.125-1.130 for that bullet. My method is to measure the height of the die that is sticking above the lock nut so I have a quick setup time the next time I go to load up a batch.

When you set up your die to set the bullet in the casing screw your RN seater plunger down as far as it will go where you can still lock it down. Then you set the depth where you end up with a OAL in the 1.125-1.130 range.

When you go to crimp remove the seater plunger and readjust your die height as you want to have just enough to straiten out your bell. I have seen the description of "sneaking up on it" as how to set the crimp. The plated bullets should have as little crimp as possible and pass a plunk test.

F. Guffey · February 21, 2016, 11:03 AM

Quote:

"Sneaking up on it"

There are miles and miles of responses by membe4rs that claim they do not trim pistol cases, I will assume they do not measure pistol cases. But; when I crimp a case and I want to eliminate surprises and when I get to the firing range I want someone to take me seriously; the length of the case must be uniform.

Then there is that part about adjusting the die; I back the seating plug off then adjust the die to crimp; one more time, I crimp with a hint of a crimp. After adjusting the die to crimp I adjust the seating plug down to the bullet. I avoid starting over everyday by saving a test case and or if I am using a transfer.

F. Guffey

mrdaputer · February 21, 2016, 12:07 PM

Thank you all for your replies and as for the snarky comment of my missed typed 1.51 instead of 1.15

the other posters figured it out

. yes I set my over all length first. The loose bullet only happens once in a while I know it should never happen. I have read and re read the instructions. Set up and re set up that die. I think with the advice I got here I should recheck all the dies and measure the ID and OD through each step. I will even take off the shell plate clean everything up and start over. Again thank you all for your replies.

mrdaputer · February 21, 2016, 02:56 PM

I figured out my problem it was this dummy who customized a new handle for his LNL press. My new lever must have twisted the machine once in a while which would cause my issues. Didn't like the old one so I made up one easier for me to reach

February 21, 2016, 12:29 AM	#1
mrdaputer Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2013 Posts: 493	RCBS die issues Hi all I am having a issue with my seating and crimp die. I bought the RCBS Carbide 3-Die Set with Taper Crimp 9mm Luger. All went well till I go to crimp.I have my depth set at 1.51 OAL using E-treme bullets 9mm-124 RN Diameter: 0.355 using Range brass on my Hornady LNL. When I go to crimp it did not crimp enough so I could push the bullet down. I kept adjusting it down 1/16 of a turn. I kept doing this untill the bullet wouldn't push down any more but the bullet still can be turned in the casing. If I crimp any more it will bulge. I even bought a extra die as some said do not seat and crimp with the same die. I still have the issue of the bullet turning using both dies. So where am I messing up at?

February 21, 2016, 01:21 AM	#2
burrhead Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 1999 Location: Chihuahuan desert, Texas Posts: 1,148	Too much crimp. You're causing the brass to bulge at the mouth. All you want to do is iron out the bell. Case tension holds the bullet, not the crimp. __________________ Join the GOA, SAF and the TSRA I'm offended by people that are easily offended.

February 21, 2016, 04:20 AM	#3
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	First off what the heck are you putting 1.51 OAL 9mm in and having them plunk? Second read your instructions as you are not setting your die up right. You set the die in the press and set OAL first. Then you back off the seater stem and adjust for crimp then you readadjust the seater stem so that it just touches the bullet. Now as what holds the bullet in place is a combination of neck tension and crimp. Some of us use either a FCD or like me a roll crimp. Since 9mm headspaces on the casemouth the crimp is only one or two thousands which is just enough to straighten out the bell.

February 21, 2016, 04:23 AM	#4
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	Take a case and size it. Measure the case ID. It should be way under the bullet diameter. Some 9x19 case have case walls so thin that you would have to get a special sizing die to get them small enough. I just dispose of these cases when I find them. Now, run the case through the expander/flare die. Measure the case ID (below the flare). It should be 0.001-0.002" under bullet diameter. If the ID is bullet diameter or larger, the expander is too big. If it is 0.003" or more under bullet diameter, the expander is too small. The bullet is ONLY held by case tension. You aren't "crimping" the case as much as removing any case mouth flare. That is all you need--remove the case flare so the cartridge drops in the barrel with a nice "plunk" sound. Finally, after you seat a bullet, try to push the bullet into the case with your thumb/finger. Reject any rounds where the bullets move. Next, are you saying that you are loading a 9mm cartridge to a COL (Cartridge Overall Length) of 1.51"? Do you mean 1.051" or 1.15" or something?

February 21, 2016, 09:01 AM	#5
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I built a 1911 and took it to the range; it is accurate and likes new ammo. I reloaded the fired cases and found it did not like reloads. It was not about all reloads; it does not like cases that have the appearance of having swallowed a bullet, something like a snake after a meal. After I did some ‘experiments’ and measurements I found I could make my reloads look like factory ammo by running the reloads into my carbide sizing die far enough to remove the bullet line. That was when I ‘discovered’ the pistol had nothing against reloads. It could not tell the difference between factory and reloaded ammo. Then there was this snarky person, he said “Why don’t you fix it?” I said I like the accuracy and that little tight chamber can not be hurting my brass. I am surrounded by a few very disciplined reloaders, one suggested I did not know how to reload for the 1911. So; arrangements were made to meet him at the range with 4 of his 1911s and my 3. His ammo would not work in my build. He offered his ammo to ever shooter with a 45ACP. They love free ammo. I do not live that far from the range so I drove home, removed the appearance the cases had swallowed the bullet and then returned. His ammo flew through my 1911 like it was factory, new over the counter ammo. I have a scope for that one 1911. I do not use it but I have it JIC. F. Guffey

February 21, 2016, 09:04 AM	#6
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	I agree that you're probably setting the die up wrong. Pull one of the bullets. If it is visibly narrower below the case mouth or has a "waist", you are crimping too much and crushing the bullet. I load X-treme plated bullets, both RN and HP, and have no problems with bullet retention when crimping just enough to straighten out the case mouth flare, no more. Pulled bullets still look brand new.

February 21, 2016, 09:17 AM	#7
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Before the Internet it was suggested crimping could be a bad habit. Remember; that was before everyone became an expert. It was suggested if the crimp was not applied correctly the crimp could lessen ‘bullet hold’. Back then a few makers of reloading equipment believed applying the crimp while seating the bullet was a conflict. They thought the crimp was applied with a hint of effort. They thought moving the bullet down while crimping expanded the case below the crimp and I believe they were correct and nothing has changed except reloaders use tension instead of bullet hold; with no way to measure it. None of my gages measure in tensions. I want all the bullet hold I can get. There is no such thing as too much bullet hold. F. Guffey

February 21, 2016, 09:48 AM	#8
Tsquared Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2016 Location: NE Atlanta Posts: 337	I have the RCBS Carbide 3-Die Set with Taper Crimp in 9mm and I have used the E-treme bullets 9mm-124 RN. I set the OAL at 1.125-1.130 for that bullet. My method is to measure the height of the die that is sticking above the lock nut so I have a quick setup time the next time I go to load up a batch. When you set up your die to set the bullet in the casing screw your RN seater plunger down as far as it will go where you can still lock it down. Then you set the depth where you end up with a OAL in the 1.125-1.130 range. When you go to crimp remove the seater plunger and readjust your die height as you want to have just enough to straiten out your bell. I have seen the description of "sneaking up on it" as how to set the crimp. The plated bullets should have as little crimp as possible and pass a plunk test.

February 21, 2016, 12:07 PM	#10
mrdaputer Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2013 Posts: 493	Thank you all for your replies and as for the snarky comment of my missed typed 1.51 instead of 1.15 the other posters figured it out . yes I set my over all length first. The loose bullet only happens once in a while I know it should never happen. I have read and re read the instructions. Set up and re set up that die. I think with the advice I got here I should recheck all the dies and measure the ID and OD through each step. I will even take off the shell plate clean everything up and start over. Again thank you all for your replies.

February 21, 2016, 02:56 PM	#11
mrdaputer Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2013 Posts: 493	I figured out my problem it was this dummy who customized a new handle for his LNL press. My new lever must have twisted the machine once in a while which would cause my issues. Didn't like the old one so I made up one easier for me to reach