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Old November 8, 2019, 12:36 PM   #26
TunnelRat
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Misinform???

I suppose you have a link to some valid statistics about how often normal citizens need to do a tactical reload in a SD/HD situation????

And why would you allow yourself to get into a situation where you are in a running gun battle and need more than 15 rounds????

Maybe you need to work on reality, rather than "What if?"
Not every situation is a choice, so not sure how much "allow" comes into it. Certainly awareness is important, but it isn't a guarantee.

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Old November 8, 2019, 12:39 PM   #27
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Well, yes. The rules of not going to stupid places, with stupid people, at stupid times is a golden rule.

But to entirely rule out the possibility based on some statistics? Remember there are instances where more ammunition has been used. Not everything has been recorded either.

Simmer lol.... Our realities may differ, that I can agree with. I just choose to not hinder myself.
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Old November 8, 2019, 02:15 PM   #28
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Well, yes. The rules of not going to stupid places, with stupid people, at stupid times is a golden rule.

But to entirely rule out the possibility based on some statistics? Remember there are instances where more ammunition has been used. Not everything has been recorded either.

Simmer lol.... Our realities may differ, that I can agree with. I just choose to not hinder myself.
Statistics and probabilities are certainly not absolute. But probabilities need to be taken into consideration.

I realize that a home invasion could possibly occur while I'm in the shower. But I don't wear my sidearm in the shower. My vehicle could possibly be hit by random gunfire while driving down the street. But I don't have my doors armored.

Personally, I believe that being hit by random fire is much more likely than needing to do a tactical reload.

OTOH, if you're comfortable with dropping expensive magaines on the ground, then more power to you. That's your choice, no matter what i think.

But please do not accuse me, or anyone else of spreading misinformation simply because we disagree with your view of probabilities.
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Old November 8, 2019, 02:30 PM   #29
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Just hoping people won't get deterred by doing such things as that is how they will play out in the real world. (God forbid)

If you've seen the soda can challenge, you'll see that someone holding an item in their hand refuses to drop said item when it's time to go live in classes.

It's a training scar to always gently put the magazine back in it's pouch or range table that won't always be there if they need to clear a malfunction, need more ammunition, or top off to asses more potential threats.
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Old November 8, 2019, 04:45 PM   #30
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Personally, I believe that being hit by random fire is much more likely than needing to do a tactical reload.

OTOH, if you're comfortable with dropping expensive magaines on the ground, then more power to you. That's your choice, no matter what i think.
Tactical reloads, as they're generally defined, involve retaining the magazine. Not dropping it. If you're worried about dropping magazines tactical reloads are the better option actually. I'd add though that dropping magazines with polymer baseplates generally results in scuff marks, not damage.

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Old November 9, 2019, 06:01 AM   #31
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...I suppose you have a link to some valid statistics about how often normal citizens need to do a tactical reload in a SD/HD situation????
Only statistic I worry about is the one involving me. I would hazard a guess that searching through all of the Armed Citizen columns might reveal one or two times a person had to reload out of thousands of encounters. Or it might reveal how poorly maintained magazines failed, clogged with dust bunnies and cat hair, and the firearm then ceased to function, requiring a magazine change, but then again, probably as few as the previous list.
I chose to attempt to alter as many factors in my favor as possible within reason. While, as you mentioned, uparmoring my vehicle might help me if driving through downtown Chicago, it is impractical for me to do so with the expense and weight. However, I can watch where I travel and take as many appropriate precautions as I can, like full gas tanks, emergency equipment, as well as a professionally maintained vehicle, and not planning night time excursions onto The Tenderloin, for example, or hanging out in Hells Kitchen overnight. I know my house may burn down before I need to use my defensive sidearm, but I have fire extinguishers, without having installed a full piped fire fighting sprinkler system, due to cost and the fact that my landlord might not be amused. Also getting into a running gun battle is exactly what happened in Texas with one man with AR15 vs madman. IS that likely to happen to me? Hardly, but he thought it wouldn't happen to him, either, before he stood up to defend his fellow men and women.
I make my decisions based on my perceived needs and wants, not on the usual statistics of others. Many millions of Americans have gone their whole life without ever carrying a defensive weapon more potent than an umbrella, but I made that conscious choice to do so myself, to carry spare magazines, to use quality defensive ammunition, to get as much professional training as my wallet will allow, (not much!), and practice as often as I can, while always following THEIR rules of behavior to reduce my possible chances of being in such a confrontation as I can, within reason. As always, your mileage may vary.
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Old November 9, 2019, 09:01 AM   #32
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armoredman, very well said.

If I am capable and it isn't a chore to me to prepare a little better, why not?
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Old November 9, 2019, 12:56 PM   #33
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That's the beauty of a free country.

You can commit time and effort practing reloading, and I can devote that time and effort to marksmanship.

And we can both pray that we will never find out which of us was right!
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Old November 9, 2019, 02:30 PM   #34
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That's the beauty of a free country.

You can commit time and effort practing reloading, and I can devote that time and effort to marksmanship.

And we can both pray that we will never find out which of us was right!
Being able to do reloads and having marksmanship abilities aren't mutually exclusive. You can practice reloads at home with or without snap caps without ever needing to step on a range.

There's always this narrative that has existed that people that carry pistols with more capacity or with backup magazines do so because they are poor shots. Heck it goes back to the days of repeating rifles. It's a falsehood. If you've decided that you don't need or want the extra capacity then more power to you, I don't care. But if you then portray it as you're going to be a better shot than those that have more capacity or carry spare magazines then I'm going to call bs.

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Old November 9, 2019, 03:10 PM   #35
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TR, I swear I've been trying to drive home the same message on two separate threads, now.
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Old November 9, 2019, 03:46 PM   #36
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I've only destroyed a couple mags over a decade or so. One or two older 1911 mags decided to spontaneously deconstruct themselves, throwing parts across the firing line, and a 1911 mag got crushed when I body slammed it into a cinder block wall in an obstacle course (not the mag's fault there!)
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Old November 9, 2019, 06:17 PM   #37
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Back in the old days when I carried a "cowboy" gun, i.e a revolver, I carried two speed loaders (18 rounds total) and practiced with them a lot. I felt well armed.

Now, I carry a semi-auto with 18 rounds in the weapon. I still feel well armed!
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Old November 9, 2019, 06:31 PM   #38
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Back in the old days when I carried a "cowboy" gun, i.e a revolver, I carried two speed loaders (18 rounds total) and practiced with them a lot. I felt well armed.



Now, I carry a semi-auto with 18 rounds in the weapon. I still feel well armed!
That's great, it's the same vein. Nothing about that is counter to carrying a spare magazine, practicing with spare magazines, etc. Not every pistol has magazines with 18 rd of capacity. If someone is carrying a pistol with fewer rounds and wants to have more capacity it's similar to when you carried speed loaders. When malfunctions happen with a pistol sometimes being able to strip the magazine and go to another can be helpful.

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Old November 10, 2019, 02:30 AM   #39
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That's the beauty of a free country.

You can commit time and effort practicing reloading, and I can devote that time and effort to marksmanship.

And we can both pray that we will never find out which of us was right!
I most certainly agree it would be best if neither one of us ever had to use our defensive sidearms in a real shootout, that is the truth. I also train mag changes while doing marksmanship at the private range I shoot at 2 miles up the road from me - doesn't take more than a few seconds. I've wasted more time changing channels than magazines.
Oh, I do reload - ammo, that is, so I can go to the range at least once a week. But that is a whole 'nother thread...
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Old November 10, 2019, 10:35 AM   #40
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I'm enjoying this thread, because many of the opinions being expressed are exactly the same opinions that I held when i was much younger.

As the years go by, I find myself questioning long held beliefs, and changing my outlook on many things.

Not a matter of right or wrong, correct or incorrect, but more a matter of seeing things from a different perspective as I age.
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Old November 10, 2019, 12:35 PM   #41
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That's funny. I guess it could go either way.

Some people age and change things into what you moved away from. I don't know your age. But look at people like Clint Smith? He carries either a 1911 with 2-4 spare mags or a Glock with 2-4 spare mags.

Everyone changes their mind based on their own reasoning. I don't think it has to do with age, generally.
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Old November 10, 2019, 08:36 PM   #42
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When I only had access to indoor ranges, I wouldn't do mag drops unless I took a half step back and there something that would keep things from bouncing in front of the firing line. Once anything falls in front, it would be a pain to get a range officer to tell everyone to cease fire so they could stare at me while I go fetch it.

Outdoors, my current range has a little gravel that's mostly overgrown with grass or just bare dirt so no harm done. I'd feel better dropping polymer mags as they can flex rather than dent/scratch. The exception being KCI mags for Glocks which I hear crack a bit more easily.
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Old November 10, 2019, 08:37 PM   #43
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When I only had access to indoor ranges, I wouldn't do mag drops unless I took a half step back and there something that would keep things from bouncing in front of the firing line. Once anything falls in front, it would be a pain to get a range officer to tell everyone to cease fire so they could stare at me while I go fetch it.



Outdoors, my current range has a little gravel that's mostly overgrown with grass or just bare dirt so no harm done. I'd feel better dropping polymer mags as they can flex rather than dent/scratch. The exception being KCI mags for Glocks which I hear crack a bit more easily.
The first part is a very smart and fair point.

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Old November 11, 2019, 12:52 AM   #44
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Plastic base pads do break.
You can buy or 3dprint replacements.


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Old November 11, 2019, 07:51 AM   #45
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I've only destroyed a couple mags over a decade or so. One or two older 1911 mags decided to spontaneously deconstruct themselves, throwing parts across the firing line, and a 1911 mag got crushed when I body slammed it into a cinder block wall in an obstacle course (not the mag's fault there!)
You just reminded me, the only mags I've damaged from drops were 1911 mags. The baseplates are welded on. When they dropped on concrete, sometimes the welds broke and the guts came out the bottom. I had a couple mags do that. There are plastic and rubber bumpers that screw onto the bottoms to prevent that.
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