Winchester Model 70

[Mosin-Marauder]

The model 70 is a great classic, but you wont find one any where near 6 pounds. They dont make a medium length action or reduced diameter action in a Model 70. I expect the current owners to stick with the nostalgia theme. I dont think there is even a stainless M70 any more.

My Model 70 Ranger in .30-06 (essentially a featherweight with a cheaper birch stock) weighs in at right about 6 unloaded. Its light, has quality irons, a very good push feed action (only "drawback" I guess is the pushfeed), and the action is the same as every other Model 70 made in its time. It also has a 3 position safety and a hinged floor plate (my model seems to be in the minority, as most seem to have blind magazines, ymmv tho).

I would definitely consider a used "Ranger" due to how cheap they are to buy and how good the quality is. Mine shoots sub half-MOA with 168 SMKs and under an inch with cheap federal hunting rounds, and it's older than I am!

[Pathfinder45]

With that kind of budget you could get the Alaskan. It has iron sights, too. But the Sporter and the Featherweight are both very nice too. I think all the new ones have the M.O.A. trigger system. On that budget, you could also look at the pre-'64 rifles. I would.
O.K., here's my take on the push-feed vs CRF actions: My first model 70 was purchased brand new in 1973, a push-feed, it was a good rifle. Now, I have a mid-90's, Classic Sporter with controlled-round-feed, and yes, it's an even better rifle. But those push-feed versions were underrated, and because of that, they can often be found for under $400. And in my opinion, they are much better rifles than the Remington 700. Unlike the Remington, you still get a great trigger and safety. So the CRF feature is not the whole point in getting a model 70. But it is one of three major points. The push feed has two out of three, and as Meatloaf said, two out of three ain't bad. The Remington has none of the three.

[fourbore]

My Model 70 Ranger in .30-06 (essentially a featherweight with a cheaper birch stock) weighs in at right about 6 unloaded. Its light, has quality irons, a very good push feed action (only "drawback" I guess is the pushfeed), and the action is the same as every other Model 70 made in its time. It also has a 3 position safety and a hinged floor plate (my model seems to be in the minority, as most seem to have blind magazines, ymmv tho).

Even though the OP is satisfied with an 11 pound mountain rifle this shows the potential for a featherweight in a Kevlar stock. I dont believe 6 pounds though. That scale maybe a little off or Winchester did more than use birch. Aluminum or plastic parts? Or scale accuracy?

HEY!! LOOK at this : Model 70 Extreme Weather SS (Thank you Red Rider)

Stainless with a Bell and Carlson. I did not know about this one. The 30-06 is 7 pounds. That would put the gun with sensible scope and rings at 8 pounds.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/produc...eather-ss.html

Not for the OP perhaps, I would be tempted with this one.

[fourbore]

Now for $200 more than the Model 70 Extreme Weather SS you could look at the Kimber Montana. The gun has 24" barrel, all stainless, carbon fiber stock and the 30-06 is 1.5 pounds lighter! An actual mountain rifle. You could be in field with scope and fully loaded, under 7 pounds.

Either of these two can be had in 270,7mm,300 mag, etc, etc. Even 338 win mag in either rifle. The 338 both weight about the same. Both are all stainless and premium stocks (not plastic/synthetic) but the good stuff.

I know the OP dont care, but; this is easy in his budget.

Link, FWIW:
http://www.kimberamerica.com/montana

[Mosin-Marauder]

Even though the OP is satisfied with an 11 pound mountain rifle this shows the potential for a featherweight in a Kevlar stock. I dont believe 6 pounds though. That scale maybe a little off or Winchester did more than use birch. Aluminum or plastic parts? Or scale accuracy?

Scale is accurate as far as I know. Only aluminum part is the trigger guard. Floorplate is steel, the follower is plastic, though that wouldn't make too much difference. It's quite light and handy. The stock isn't very "beefy" but is more than sufficient for accurate shooting, which may account for how light it is.

OP, I would balance the quality of rifle with the quality of scope. A super great rifle that takes up most of your budget is going to shoot like garbage with a crappy scope. The same way a bad rifle will shoot bad regardless of glass quality.

I would get something like a Model 70 or Remington 700, most 700s seem to be pretty decent rifles for the money. I would take a look at Savage, also.

[fourbore]

Only aluminum part is the trigger guard. Floorplate is steel, the follower is plastic, though that wouldn't make too much difference. It's quite light and handy. The stock isn't very "beefy" but is more than sufficient for accurate shooting, which may account for how light it is.

A super great rifle that takes up most of your budget is going to shoot like garbage with a crappy scope.

My fancy grade M70 featherweight, trigger guard, follower and pistol grip cap are all steel. Walnut is heavier than birch. I guess it all adds up.

I agree about a good scope or better yet, I would use the words 'appropriate' scope.

I dont consider a Stainless Bell & Carlson M70 or Kimber Montana in the same class as a any current Remington or Savage. The OP's budget is $2000 he can step up to M70 or Kimber and have more than enough left for an excellent leupold scope and still have change. Or use the spare scope he already has on hand.

[Stats Shooter]

The point of this purchase, and my original suggestion of an M70 for myself was not want a high end hunting rifle. By high end I mean in performance and construction. So I thought the M70 was in that class. Like I said I don't really have a budget, I could blow 5k if I wanted but I don't believe you can get $5k worth of performance value out of a hunting rifle. Beyond the M70 Extreme or kimber Montana it seems you begin paying for engraving, craftsmanship of the furniture, silver/gold inlays etc.

But like I said, it isn't a bench gun or wall hanger. I hunt 3rd season elk often and that means cold, damp, and I have to climb at times banging it off rocks, trees etc.

[FiveInADime]

Originally Posted by Mississippi

The point of this purchase, and my original suggestion of an M70 for myself was not want a high end hunting rifle. By high end I mean in performance and construction. So I thought the M70 was in that class. Like I said I don't really have a budget, I could blow 5k if I wanted but I don't believe you can get $5k worth of performance value out of a hunting rifle. Beyond the M70 Extreme or kimber Montana it seems you begin paying for engraving, craftsmanship of the furniture, silver/gold inlays etc.

But like I said, it isn't a bench gun or wall hanger. I hunt 3rd season elk often and that means cold, damp, and I have to climb at times banging it off rocks, trees etc.

I've heard a lot of stories about Kimber Montanas that guys have a hard time getting to shoot. I've seen a FN M70 Extreme Weather shoot real well but I can't say all of them do.

I don't think you can get a better hunting rifle than that M70 EW

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Stats Shooter]

Well, I still need to do a little research, but looks like my collection will be adding a FN Model 70 EW 30 06. Won't be using it this year no matter how soon I get it as I need time to get familiar, settle on a scope, and develop a hand load but I'm looking forward to it.

Thanks

[grump09]

Mosin- Marauder

In reference to mod 70 actions being all the same lengths ( pre 64)? I have a 1940 Roberts and the follower seems short as there is a home made block behind it. The ejection port appears correct as an 06 cartridge is too long. Is there a metal factory block missing? It feeds .257 fine but something is amiss .New to 70 models

[Mosin-Marauder]

Hello,

Sorry for not responding sooner,

My Model 70 is not a Pre-64, so I'm not sure if this will be of much help, but mine in 06 has no sort of block in the magazine or on the follower, and the follow fills up the entirety of the mag well. Sorry if this doesn't help.

[Don Fischer]

Originally Posted by kraigwy

I'm a huge Winchester fan, I have pre-64s, post 64s and the newer FN Model 70s.

One I don't have is the USRA Model 70.

I believe the new FNs to be the best of the lot.

But you wont go wrong with any Model 70 Win.

Its hard to beat my pre-64 in '06 spouting an old El Paso 4X Weaver for pure class.

Contrary what have been said since 1965 there is nothing at all wrong with the post '64s.

You wont be disappointed in the New Model 70.

I too have an old El Paso Weaver K4 but nothing to put it on right now. Ny 30-06 is a custom 1903 built by Paul Jaeger in 1945. The scope on it is an old Denver Redfield 2 3/4x I bought brand new many years ago. Also have a mod 70, a feather weight in 6.5x55. Really really a nice rifle. Got it about 2004?

[Don Fischer]

Just though of a couple more thing's. I have never understood the term push feed, they all push feed, all of them. Used to refer to them as controlled round feed.

A though on the 30-06 I've had a few but have never hunted one time with one. That changes elk season this wear. I have a very nice load worked up using a 180 gr Hornady interlock. Was looking at them last night while loading some 243's up. Wow, never really realized just how big that case is. Set it next to a 308 case and it's huge. Need to set in next to a 25-06 case, bet it's still huge!

[Stats Shooter]

I actually wound up getting a model 70 Super Grade .300 win mag rather than the.30-06. I'm going elk hunting this year in December in eastern Utah.

My load I developed is a 200 grain accubond and H1000 powder at 2975 fps. It is brutal on the shoulder, but shoots an easy half minute.

I topped it with a Swarovski Z3 4x12x50.

If I ever miss with this rifle, I will have to point the thumb and not the finger.

[grump09]

Thanks Mosin, will search further as someone is sure to know

[Jack O'Conner]

I own a customized Winchester 670 in 35 Whelen. The 670 was priced a little less than the model 70 back in the late 1960's to early 70's. Yet this rifle shares many of the remarkable features of the model 70. It is accurate, reliable, and safe.

Jack

[RIDE-RED 350r]

How do ya like that Super Grade Mississippi??

[Stats Shooter]

How do ya like that Super Grade Mississippi?

Love it. Generally I am a utilitarian with respect to guns, but the model 70 Super Grade is beautiful, accurate, and reliable.....but not cheap

[44 AMP]

I have never understood the term push feed, they all push feed, all of them

Yes, they all push the round into the chamber, but there is a difference.

Controlled round feed means that the rim of the case rises up underneath the extractor as the bolt pushes it forward out of the magazine. The case is under "control" of the extractor from the instant it leaves the magazine.

This is the classic Mauser system and what was used in the pre-64 model 70s.

Push feed means the bolt pushes the round into the chamber and then when the case stops, the extractor snaps over the rim. In some guns, the bolt must be turned down to have this happen. The case is not under control of the extractor UNTIL it is chambered. (and often not until the action locks).

This is a widely used system with variations involving extractor size, shape, and placement. Remington, Savage and others use it.

Some believe the large, non rotating Mauser type extractor is superior. It may be so, but millions of guns over many decades has not shown any significant practical inferiority to the push feed designs.

[dahermit]

Some believe the large, non rotating Mauser type extractor is superior. It may be so, but millions of guns over many decades has not shown any significant practical inferiority to the push feed designs.

The only advantage I can think of for a Mauser-type claw extractor is the larger claw of the extractor is less likely to slip-off a fired, stuck casing.

[the possum]

It was recently pointed out on this forum that controlled round feed was also developed as a safety measure, to prevent a double feed in military rifles. If ya cycle the bolt far enough to strip a round out of the magazine with a push feed action, the shell is free to slide into the chamber. And if ya move the bolt back again, you can strip another shell out of the mag and jam it into the one already chambered. In some cases the point of this bullet could strike the primer & set it off (especially with fmj military ammo) with the bolt open.

This is probably less of a concern on target and sporting rifles, but in the hell of combat I'm sure strange things could happen. I remember when I toured Gettysburg, they said rifles were found after the battle that had 7 charges of bullet & powder that were rammed on top of each other in the barrel.

[Don Fischer]

Originally Posted by the possum

It was recently pointed out on this forum that controlled round feed was also developed as a safety measure, to prevent a double feed in military rifles. If ya cycle the bolt far enough to strip a round out of the magazine with a push feed action, the shell is free to slide into the chamber. And if ya move the bolt back again, you can strip another shell out of the mag and jam it into the one already chambered. In some cases the point of this bullet could strike the primer & set it off (especially with fmj military ammo) with the bolt open.

This is probably less of a concern on target and sporting rifles, but in the hell of combat I'm sure strange things could happen. I remember when I toured Gettysburg, they said rifles were found after the battle that had 7 charges of bullet & powder that were rammed on top of each other in the barrel.

That's interesting! I've never felt the difference in the two mattered that much. Have had a lot of push feed rifler and a decent number of controlled round rifles. Never had a problem with either but I read some guy's for some reason have a huge problem with push feed rifles. That military reason makes perfect sense.

[Jim Watson]

grump09

In reference to mod 70 actions being all the same lengths ( pre 64)? I have a 1940 Roberts and the follower seems short as there is a home made block behind it. The ejection port appears correct as an 06 cartridge is too long. Is there a metal factory block missing? It feeds .257 fine but something is amiss

Early .257 Winchester Roberts Model 70s had short magazine followers, a spacer in the rear of the magazine, and a bolt stop extension for the 57mm round in a 63mm action. Why you have a homemade block, I don't know.

It was fairly commonly done to substitute .30-06 parts so the Roberts could be loaded to as long an OAL as the chamber throat would take.
The real enthusiasts would throat the chamber out so as to load the Roberts to magazine length with 120 gr spitzer bullets.

[jackstrawIII]

I love all my Winchester Model 70s. And I think the new ones are even better than the old.

If you can get your hands on the Extreme Weather version, do it!

[Slamfire]

The only advantage I can think of for a Mauser-type claw extractor is the larger claw of the extractor is less likely to slip-off a fired, stuck casing.

If you feed your rounds from the magazine the claw extractor will last longer than a push feed. If you require the claw to snap over the cartridge rim it will likely break around the same time as the push feed extractor. I have had a M1903 extractor break in this way and others have had claw extractors break. The early Ruger pseudo Mauser M77 had a claw which snapped over the rim. The early M77 were in fact push feed actions with a Mauser looking claw extractor but it was not controlled round feed. You spend some time looking on the web, there are a number of posts from owners looking for one of the those rare extractors, because theirs broke!

When I pulled targets with AMU, USMC, and Army Reserve guys, their M16's wore out push feed extractors. These guys fired thousands if not tens of thousands of rounds per month. Other things wore out to, so it is not a knock against push feed extractors. The push feed M70 would wear out its extractor. Instead of holding the cartridge against the bolt face, the extracted cartridge would fall off into the action causing a stove pipe jam. I helped a guy with a M70 push feed replace his extractor on the firing line. The match director was a gunsmith, had a box of M70 extractors, and we carefully made sure the spring loaded pin did not roll out into the grass as we changed the extractor out. M70 push feed extractors are different, I don't know how to categorize them, but there are model variations. M700 Remington extractors are one of the weakest push feed extractor designs. They wear out and you have to make sure the bolt face does not have crud impacted into the recesses because the Rem 700 extractor will break if it can't flex.

I like the claw. Primarily I like claw extractor mechanisms because I can open the bolt, pull it back, and the actions do not have a spring loaded ejector which flings the brass way out in front of the firing line. Instead I can just bump the case out of the action on to the bench.

Dumoulin Mauser 98 extractor claw



I like M70's. It is always a hoot when the things shoot straight, all the way out to 600 yards. Now who was it that said the 30-06 can't shoot straight?







I have one of the PBR's, Patrol Bolt Rifles. These were the last M70's assembled at New Haven, I think the parts were made elsewhere.