Chinese policemen gunned down kidnapper

hsingyu · February 10, 2012, 01:41 AM

http://v.ifeng.com/news/paike/201202...824d8a88.shtml

Hunan police gunned down a kidnapper hiding in a hostel room. A M1911 pistol and 4 rounds were seized. The suspect has multiple criminal record of assault, burglary and drug posession.

Video starts at 2:03, the poor guy didn't even fire his gun, the police alreadly killed him. If this happed in America there it be very controversial

dec41971 · February 10, 2012, 05:00 AM

No it wouldn't he would have died much faster than in China. He was holding a gun with muzzle pointed at police, over here he would have had zero chance and first order to drop weapon would have been followed in split seconds by barrage of bullets. These guys are almost in slow-motion and gave him way too much time. If he had decided to shoot he had a chance to shoot one of them. Just seeing gun muzzle pointed at you is enough to justify killing the perp. No one will ever know what he was thinking, what an idiot!

Shadi Khalil · February 10, 2012, 05:49 AM

What controversy? I think they waited a bit longer than they should have.

hsingyu · February 10, 2012, 12:24 PM

well they said "drop you gun" but he said "no" then he was shot repeately. They did not even ask him to surrender or warn him and it it not really necessary to fire so many times.

Old Grump · February 10, 2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

well they said "drop you gun" but he said "no" then he was shot repeately

Didn't matter if it was police, military, armed security guard or civilian. Pointing a gun is an offensive action and you have the right to prevent him from harming or taking somebody's life by taking his first if he refused to disarm. It was a good shoot.

overkill0084 · February 10, 2012, 12:32 PM

Drop the gun.
no.
bang.
Negotiation fail.
He flunked the attitude test.
I'd would have ended him sooner, but that's just me.

Catalyst · February 10, 2012, 01:24 PM

I won't even pretent to know what SOP is for Chinese police when confronting an armed perp but if that were here in the US he'd have been shot right away. Given the hesitation of the police to fire, it looks like it could be a case of suicide by cop. If the perp had the intent of shooting at police he had ample time to do so. What is the average sentence for kidnapping in China?... oh yeah, it's Death. (NOT intended to start a capital punishment argument, only suggesting what may have sparked the behavior... cause after all, i'm also an internet video criminal behaviorist and I'm never wrong

)

kraigwy · February 10, 2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

If this happed in America there it be very controversial

Thanks but I'll stay home and take my chances.

Brian Pfleuger · February 10, 2012, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hsingyu

well they said "drop you gun" but he said "no" then he was shot repeately. They did not even ask him to surrender or warn him and it it not really necessary to fire so many times.

Don't kidnap people and the point guns at cops. They might kill you if you do. They won't kill you if you don't.

He's not a victim. He was the aggressor and threatened to kill innocent people. Now he's dead. It's on him. No one else.

Double Naught Spy · February 10, 2012, 02:45 PM

Yeah, the only problem I saw that was controversial was that the police waited too long to deal with the threat. The kidnapper, had the three key criteria for self defense to be used against him including intent, opportunity, and ability.

You don't point guns at the the cops.

dec41971 · February 10, 2012, 02:47 PM

I have seen cops in Kenya armed with AK-47s get into it with crazy guy with a machete who cut 3 of them and they still wouldn't shoot him. They did beat him half to death of course and as far as I know there is no such thing as police brutality over there and there is no suing the cops even if they kill you. It seems just that alone reduces the chances they kill you. They really didn't want to kill the guy and went beyond call of duty not to kill him even after he inflicted dead cuts on 3 of them.

By same token I saw on video caught by a tourist over there where a motorist is pursued by plain cloths cops in unmarked cars. They box him in. He gets out of the car confused with arms in the air begging for his life. They mumble something translated as (we are going to finish you. Choose in the face or in the back) They then tell him to lie down on the pavement face down, one of them pulls out a pistol and executes the poor guy with three shots to the back of the head.

Beyond believe. It looked like an extra-judicial killing. Maybe he ****** off some politicians or official who knows!! But The shocker is when minutes later uniformed police show up on the scene briefly talk to the civilian dressed cops, and then the uniformed police clean up the mess. Video picked up later showing a story in the paper next days talking about a police pursuit followed by thug exchanging gunfire with the police leading to his execution. It seems routine over there for police to kill with no obvious reason and mostly hardly anyone raises an eyebrow. Attitude seems to be "guy must have done something bad"

I just have never really understood why there were two wildly different MOs in the same country by authorities unless said authorities suctioned the second incident. A lot of these things have no ryme or reason because in most countries the rules are so damn vague. Apparently in Kenya if you face away from the cops and run, they have the right to execute you. No one runs from the cops like in the US. When you see a traffic stop, its funny a guy with an AK simply waves and most everyone obeys doesn't dare run because they won't bother chase you. They have a group down the road ready to light up the fireworks no matter who is with you in the car. In the US you wouldn't get killed for simply running. But wielding a machete let alone cutting a cop with it gets you killed.

I suppose the rules in China are different. But If it were me, honestly I would have shot him the minute he said no, which was clear indication of intent. When the cop says drop it, you better drop it unless you are deaf. I however don't agree when cops shoot a guy for wielding a knife, unless he cuts you or rushes you, you shouldn't just kill him because you think he could throw it at you. Then again unless you are on scene your judgement of situation is usually off.

When I travel I usually research and try to find out what to do if stopped by local cops. This way I won't do what comes naturally to me at home and windup in trouble due to a misunderstanding.

JimPage · February 10, 2012, 02:53 PM

Definitely a good shoot. Perp had good taste in weapons, but was a poor planner with no extra magazines

Wyosmith · February 10, 2012, 03:28 PM

One thing I though was weird was the fact that the CHINESE police had “POLICE” on their uniforms spelled in English???????
I have no clue why. Would it not have been more normal to have it written in Chinese?

BlackFeather · February 10, 2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dec41971

I have seen cops in Kenya armed with AK-47s get into it with crazy guy with a machete who cut 3 of them and they still wouldn't shoot him. They did beat him half to death of course and as far as I know there is no such thing as police brutality over there and there is no suing the cops even if they kill you. It seems just that alone reduces the chances they kill you. They really didn't want to kill the guy and went beyond call of duty not to kill him even after he inflicted dead cuts on 3 of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqMgG_FI2gI Shouldn't have to say it, but GRAPHIC

That was in Nicaragua, if I'm thinking of the same video, and it wasn't even a Machete, it was simply a 10 inch knife. Which is amusing, seeing as people don't expect a knife to actually drop a person. The man also stated his intent. He was insane, and their hesitance to kill him was likely because of that. But yes, he did take down 3-4 police before they finally shot, and they DID shoot when they could. There were other people not far off, which had to be taken into account.

As for the video in the OP, it seemed like they gave him ample time to drop his weapon. They were heavily armoured as far as I could tell, and the man was panicked. It seemed like they entered the room so fast he couldn't pick a target. He had his chance, but a stand off has to end. I think they did fine, I'm sure the suspense made those seconds seem like hours, but they tried. That accounts for something, criminal or not.

Coyote_Buster700 · February 10, 2012, 04:22 PM

Quote:

I'd would have ended him sooner, but that's just me.

Same here...

dec41971 · February 10, 2012, 04:25 PM

Thanks BlackFeather! Would you happen to have a link to the video with the guy getting executed? It was on BBC website for a while can't find it. And sorry about the mix up. I thought it was Kenya, but maybe only the execution was in Kenya, but now I am not so sure, maybe Nigeria but definitely in Africa. Anyhow it makes one think twice about the rules on the ground in a foreign country. What you don't know can really truly kill you. Never assume our rules make sense everywhere. I wonder how much of this is culture and values and how much is really bad training. If no one perhaps showed those folks how quickly you can get killed may explain them waiting so long for man with gun there before taking him out.

markj · February 10, 2012, 04:57 PM

Quote:

If this happed in America there it be very controversial

And you know this how? Says you is in china.... If you ever come here, do not, I repeat, do not expect American police to wait as long as them chinese police did. Here you will get a hail of bullets hitting your body.

When police say drop it, best drop it. or suffer the results..

BlackFeather · February 10, 2012, 05:04 PM

dec41971, I found these:

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/...114277294.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CajzPMozz5s

It seems it wasn't warranted and they were caught thanks to whoever filmed it.

G1R2 · February 10, 2012, 05:29 PM

I'm sure the policeman was thinking about all of the Human Rights Violations America has heaped upon China, therefore the "wild west" law and order theme has been left to Hollywood.

MTT TL · February 10, 2012, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Video starts at 2:03, the poor guy didn't even fire his gun, the police alreadly killed him. If this happed in America there it be very controversial

Possibly, probably not. The only people upset about it would likely be the criminals. They tend to cry some crocodile tears when they lose one of their own and walk about how they are being kept down.

Pointing a weapon at someone IS deadly force in US law. I find it hard to believe that in China it is that much different. If a known dangerous criminal is pointing a gun at the police in the US, this is often his last act on Earth.

Quote:

I'm sure the policeman was thinking about all of the Human Rights Violations America has heaped upon China, therefore the "wild west" law and order theme has been left to Hollywood.

I won't even pretend to understand what that means.

Double Naught Spy · February 10, 2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

One thing I though was weird was the fact that the CHINESE police had “POLICE” on their uniforms spelled in English???????
I have no clue why. Would it not have been more normal to have it written in Chinese?

Between increased tourism by westerners, the Olymics, and western influence, it isn't terribly surprising to see "POLICE" on their jackets, though I would have expected to see Chinese symbols as well. "Police" and the various western spellings are similar enough to be recognized around much of the world.

Here is another video documenting the Chinese police and their gear. Note that a lot of their gear has the English word "POLICE" on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWm2f-anqaw
Here is another vid with the Chinese police after killing another hostage taker. Note the use of "POLICE" on several of the uniforms...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXhHE...eature=related

Nnobby45 · February 10, 2012, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Video starts at 2:03, the poor guy didn't even fire his gun, the police alreadly killed him. If this happed in America there it be very controversial

Why would it be controversial when the suspect had a gun pointed at the police?

The only thing that might be controversial is if the officers weren't reprimanded for putting their lives at risk by not ending things MUCH sooner.

MTT TL · February 10, 2012, 07:47 PM

I have seen "police" in English in nearly every country in the world that I have been to.

jhenry · February 11, 2012, 10:40 AM

Those Chinese cops are probably wearing knockoff pirated 5.11 jackets and they get a discount for some reason

They did fine. Probably should have shot sooner, but how many armed perps do they really face? I am sure it happens, but almost certainly not in the numbers we see.

MTT TL · February 11, 2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

....pirated 5.11 jackets.....

Or factory made....

February 10, 2012, 01:41 AM	#1
hsingyu Junior member Join Date: April 1, 2011 Location: China Posts: 45	Chinese policemen gunned down kidnapper http://v.ifeng.com/news/paike/201202...824d8a88.shtml Hunan police gunned down a kidnapper hiding in a hostel room. A M1911 pistol and 4 rounds were seized. The suspect has multiple criminal record of assault, burglary and drug posession. Video starts at 2:03, the poor guy didn't even fire his gun, the police alreadly killed him. If this happed in America there it be very controversial Last edited by hsingyu; February 10, 2012 at 01:46 AM.

February 10, 2012, 12:32 PM	#6
overkill0084 Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2010 Location: Northern, UT Posts: 1,162	Drop the gun. no. bang. Negotiation fail. He flunked the attitude test. I'd would have ended him sooner, but that's just me. __________________ Cheers, Greg “At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child – miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.” — P.J. O’Rourke

February 10, 2012, 02:45 PM	#10
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Yeah, the only problem I saw that was controversial was that the police waited too long to deal with the threat. The kidnapper, had the three key criteria for self defense to be used against him including intent, opportunity, and ability. You don't point guns at the the cops. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

February 10, 2012, 05:04 PM	#18
BlackFeather Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2009 Location: West Coast Posts: 450	dec41971, I found these: http://www.voanews.com/english/news/...114277294.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CajzPMozz5s It seems it wasn't warranted and they were caught thanks to whoever filmed it. __________________ "Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men." - Miyamoto Musashi [Insert random irrelevant religious quote here]

February 10, 2012, 05:29 PM	#19
G1R2 Member Join Date: December 20, 2011 Posts: 73	Human Rights Violation? I'm sure the policeman was thinking about all of the Human Rights Violations America has heaped upon China, therefore the "wild west" law and order theme has been left to Hollywood.

February 10, 2012, 05:00 AM	#2
dec41971 Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2009 Posts: 236	No it wouldn't he would have died much faster than in China. He was holding a gun with muzzle pointed at police, over here he would have had zero chance and first order to drop weapon would have been followed in split seconds by barrage of bullets. These guys are almost in slow-motion and gave him way too much time. If he had decided to shoot he had a chance to shoot one of them. Just seeing gun muzzle pointed at you is enough to justify killing the perp. No one will ever know what he was thinking, what an idiot!

February 10, 2012, 05:49 AM	#3
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	What controversy? I think they waited a bit longer than they should have.

February 10, 2012, 12:24 PM	#4
hsingyu Junior member Join Date: April 1, 2011 Location: China Posts: 45	well they said "drop you gun" but he said "no" then he was shot repeately. They did not even ask him to surrender or warn him and it it not really necessary to fire so many times.

February 10, 2012, 01:24 PM	#7
Catalyst Member Join Date: October 16, 2009 Posts: 64	I won't even pretent to know what SOP is for Chinese police when confronting an armed perp but if that were here in the US he'd have been shot right away. Given the hesitation of the police to fire, it looks like it could be a case of suicide by cop. If the perp had the intent of shooting at police he had ample time to do so. What is the average sentence for kidnapping in China?... oh yeah, it's Death. (NOT intended to start a capital punishment argument, only suggesting what may have sparked the behavior... cause after all, i'm also an internet video criminal behaviorist and I'm never wrong )

February 10, 2012, 02:47 PM	#11
dec41971 Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2009 Posts: 236	I have seen cops in Kenya armed with AK-47s get into it with crazy guy with a machete who cut 3 of them and they still wouldn't shoot him. They did beat him half to death of course and as far as I know there is no such thing as police brutality over there and there is no suing the cops even if they kill you. It seems just that alone reduces the chances they kill you. They really didn't want to kill the guy and went beyond call of duty not to kill him even after he inflicted dead cuts on 3 of them. By same token I saw on video caught by a tourist over there where a motorist is pursued by plain cloths cops in unmarked cars. They box him in. He gets out of the car confused with arms in the air begging for his life. They mumble something translated as (we are going to finish you. Choose in the face or in the back) They then tell him to lie down on the pavement face down, one of them pulls out a pistol and executes the poor guy with three shots to the back of the head. Beyond believe. It looked like an extra-judicial killing. Maybe he ****** off some politicians or official who knows!! But The shocker is when minutes later uniformed police show up on the scene briefly talk to the civilian dressed cops, and then the uniformed police clean up the mess. Video picked up later showing a story in the paper next days talking about a police pursuit followed by thug exchanging gunfire with the police leading to his execution. It seems routine over there for police to kill with no obvious reason and mostly hardly anyone raises an eyebrow. Attitude seems to be "guy must have done something bad" I just have never really understood why there were two wildly different MOs in the same country by authorities unless said authorities suctioned the second incident. A lot of these things have no ryme or reason because in most countries the rules are so damn vague. Apparently in Kenya if you face away from the cops and run, they have the right to execute you. No one runs from the cops like in the US. When you see a traffic stop, its funny a guy with an AK simply waves and most everyone obeys doesn't dare run because they won't bother chase you. They have a group down the road ready to light up the fireworks no matter who is with you in the car. In the US you wouldn't get killed for simply running. But wielding a machete let alone cutting a cop with it gets you killed. I suppose the rules in China are different. But If it were me, honestly I would have shot him the minute he said no, which was clear indication of intent. When the cop says drop it, you better drop it unless you are deaf. I however don't agree when cops shoot a guy for wielding a knife, unless he cuts you or rushes you, you shouldn't just kill him because you think he could throw it at you. Then again unless you are on scene your judgement of situation is usually off. When I travel I usually research and try to find out what to do if stopped by local cops. This way I won't do what comes naturally to me at home and windup in trouble due to a misunderstanding.

February 10, 2012, 02:53 PM	#12
JimPage Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2010 Location: Rome, NY Posts: 941	Definitely a good shoot. Perp had good taste in weapons, but was a poor planner with no extra magazines

February 10, 2012, 03:28 PM	#13
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	One thing I though was weird was the fact that the CHINESE police had “POLICE” on their uniforms spelled in English??????? I have no clue why. Would it not have been more normal to have it written in Chinese?

February 10, 2012, 04:25 PM	#16
dec41971 Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2009 Posts: 236	Thanks BlackFeather! Would you happen to have a link to the video with the guy getting executed? It was on BBC website for a while can't find it. And sorry about the mix up. I thought it was Kenya, but maybe only the execution was in Kenya, but now I am not so sure, maybe Nigeria but definitely in Africa. Anyhow it makes one think twice about the rules on the ground in a foreign country. What you don't know can really truly kill you. Never assume our rules make sense everywhere. I wonder how much of this is culture and values and how much is really bad training. If no one perhaps showed those folks how quickly you can get killed may explain them waiting so long for man with gun there before taking him out.

February 10, 2012, 07:47 PM	#23
MTT TL Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2009 Location: Quadling Country Posts: 2,780	I have seen "police" in English in nearly every country in the world that I have been to. __________________ Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.

February 11, 2012, 10:40 AM	#24
jhenry Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Location: Ozarks Posts: 1,840	Those Chinese cops are probably wearing knockoff pirated 5.11 jackets and they get a discount for some reason They did fine. Probably should have shot sooner, but how many armed perps do they really face? I am sure it happens, but almost certainly not in the numbers we see. __________________ "A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer