New to the forum and I need help!

Knuckle Dragger · January 18, 2012, 09:39 PM

Hey everybody. Been a gun owner for years and just found this site. Looks like a good place to be.

I need some help. I recently got my hands on a neat little gun. It's double barrel(side by side) 12 gauge shotgun. Garcia Sporting Arms is stamped on the top, along with "made in Brazil".
Also "Amadeo Rossi SA" and Sao Leopoldo RA" stamped on a bridge between the two barrels. I'm thinking this might be a coach gun. Looks like the stock has been cut off and shaved down smooth. It really looks neat but I don't know what the hell it is! I included some pics of the gun so you guys can see it and maybe help me I.D this thing. Thanks everybody!

Baylorattorney · January 18, 2012, 09:55 PM

I thought coach guns had hammers. I really like the look of that Garcia tho. It's a great sight. Welcome tho I'm pretty new here myself.

Knuckle Dragger · January 18, 2012, 10:02 PM

Most coach guns I've seen have been older with external hammers. The barrel length and overall look of it is what gives me that idea. In my opinion this thing looks bad ass. just gotta figure out what it is.

Willie Lowman · January 18, 2012, 10:43 PM

It's a cheap double barrel shotgun that someone sawed off. Looks like they did a nice job of it too.

As long as the barrels are at least 18 inches long and the gun is at least 26 inches long, have fun.

I think coach gun is just a term for a side by side shotgun with short barrels.

SHR970 · January 18, 2012, 10:47 PM

You have a Rossi coach gun. I don't think they have made / imported them for a while. Not all coach guns have external hammers; all you need do is look at the Stoger Coach Gun. Anyhow, the Amadeo Rossi SA marks are the give away. Look here for some validation Rossi USA link

olddrum1 · January 18, 2012, 11:08 PM

Welcome aboard and glad to have you here. Hate to rain on your parade but I would call your Local Law officer and ask what makes a shotgun illeagal in your area.

zippy13 · January 18, 2012, 11:13 PM

^^^what olddrum1 said^^^

Somebody may have sold you a bunch of trouble. Remember, the Ruby Ridge incident started over a not quite legal shotgun conversion.

SHNOMIDO · January 19, 2012, 12:00 AM

yea that looks under the overall length requirement to me.

johnwilliamson062 · January 19, 2012, 12:22 AM

I would also recommend you measure it. Has to be close.

SHNOMIDO · January 19, 2012, 12:30 AM

and measure it the worst way you can.

Like, if theres anyway, angle, starting points, etc that you can make that tape measure come up illegal, you better believe thats going to be the way the law measures it.

Question is, if it comes up under length, what do you do with it? call the cops? break it in half and throw it in the river?

TheKlawMan · January 19, 2012, 02:51 AM

Definitely check your state and local laws. Some are stricter than Federal.

Baylorattorney · January 19, 2012, 03:46 AM

I would not involve the law. Measure it for overall length and barrel length. 26 inches overall 18 inch barrel. If it fails to meet criteria, dismantle it and store it in separate places, if the barrel is not requisite length I'd destroy it. Order the parts you would need ( a stock, barrel, extended chokes, etc.) to make it legal. Looks legal to me, but don't take my web word for it.

Just don't be too quick to involve the law who have a duty to arrest you if they reasonably believe the gun you posses may be prohibited as a weapon. There are real horror stories aplenty of some good citizen trying to do the right thing and getting all hell to pay for it.

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=27.354707,-98.158178

TheKlawMan · January 19, 2012, 04:03 AM

Baylorattorney is right about not involving law enforcement, which is not the same as checking applicable gun laws. State law should be fairly simple to check, while local law may not be too simple. For instance the California Department of Justice makes its available on the web. An altenative is to check with a local affiliate of the NRA. If you still are in doubt and thinnk your gun may violate gun laws, I would either get rid of it or consult with a local firearms attorney. You may want to start by simply identifying your state on this forum, along with the guns overall length and the length of the barrel.

Salmoneye · January 19, 2012, 06:47 AM

To measure the barrel, close action, drop a dowel down the barrel, and with the dowel sitting on the breechface, mark the dowel and then measure the dowel to the mark...This is the correct way to measure the barrel

Then stand the gun with the muzzle on floor against a wall, and mark on the wall the end of the butt stock...This is the correct way to measure the OAL...

If the barrel is fine, but the OAL is off, simply replace the stock...

If the barrel is too short (less than 18), the it is illegal, and can not be made legal...

SHR970 · January 19, 2012, 08:03 AM

If you find out that you need to replace that stock to make length you need to get one for a Rossi Squire. That is the gun you have. They were imported from ~1968-1989. Good luck in finding one though as the first stop to look is Numrich and they don't have any....or barrels for that matter.

Knuckle Dragger · January 19, 2012, 09:52 AM

Okay guys, measured the **** out of this thing today. Here's what I've come up with.

Measured the barrel using a wooden dowel, with gun cocked and came up with a measurement of just under 18.5 inches(literally a hair).

Overall length of the weapon was 27 inches.

Whoever modified it knew what they were doing I suppose. I put a straight edge on the end of the barrels and found that it's not exactly straight, but not noticeable unless you're really looking for it to be uneven.

I consulted with a buddy of mine that owns a gun shop. He's going to come get it today to inspect it and do his official measuring stuff.

I'd feel safer buying a new stock for this thing so that's probably what I'll do.

I live in Kentucky, and I'm pretty sure we have the most open, gun owner friendly laws in the country.

Thanks again guys.

jrothWA · January 19, 2012, 10:15 AM

Wenigs stock maker and see if thye have a butt stock for it.

Not sure where a used set of barrels might be had.

Contact Rossi and see if new se tis possible.

According to GCA of 1968, Min. barrel length is 18" and overall is 26".

Good Luck.

jaguarxk120 · January 19, 2012, 10:49 AM

Replacing the stock is a very good idea, as the pistol gripped shotguns are a bear to shoot. Take a look on Utube people shooting that type of gun.

Baylorattorney · January 19, 2012, 01:02 PM

Now get a STAGECOACH! Lol. Good job.

Bulldawg · September 13, 2012, 08:16 PM

Your shotgun looks awesome. I have the same shotgun (in its original form)and have been looking for a value for it for a while now. The original length of that barrel is 28". Mine is in pretty good shape, but needs an internal part. This seems to be a rare gun. All others that I've seen have external hammers or are 20 gauge. I'm interested in any info you were able to dig up during your research. Curious about value and where to find parts. Any info is appreciated. Thanks!

James K · September 14, 2012, 08:36 PM

Well, if it is just under 18 1/2", it would probably be over 18" and that is good enough, as is the 27" overall. Someone knew the Federal law and made sure not to violate it.

IMHO, trying to make it into a full length shotgun would cost way more than it is worth, even if Rossi parts were available. You might try www.gunpartscorp.com but I wouldn't hold out much hope. To have a stockmaker do a stock and a barrel outfit make barrels would cost well into the thousands.

Garcia has been out of business for years, and Rossi has been taken over by Taurus. If you need parts, try contacting Taurus.

Jim

January 18, 2012, 09:39 PM	#1
Knuckle Dragger Junior Member Join Date: January 18, 2012 Posts: 3	New to the forum and I need help! Hey everybody. Been a gun owner for years and just found this site. Looks like a good place to be. I need some help. I recently got my hands on a neat little gun. It's double barrel(side by side) 12 gauge shotgun. Garcia Sporting Arms is stamped on the top, along with "made in Brazil". Also "Amadeo Rossi SA" and Sao Leopoldo RA" stamped on a bridge between the two barrels. I'm thinking this might be a coach gun. Looks like the stock has been cut off and shaved down smooth. It really looks neat but I don't know what the hell it is! I included some pics of the gun so you guys can see it and maybe help me I.D this thing. Thanks everybody!

January 18, 2012, 10:43 PM	#4
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	I'll tell you what it is. It's a cheap double barrel shotgun that someone sawed off. Looks like they did a nice job of it too. As long as the barrels are at least 18 inches long and the gun is at least 26 inches long, have fun. I think coach gun is just a term for a side by side shotgun with short barrels. __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

January 19, 2012, 03:46 AM	#12
Baylorattorney Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2011 Posts: 177	I would not involve the law. Measure it for overall length and barrel length. 26 inches overall 18 inch barrel. If it fails to meet criteria, dismantle it and store it in separate places, if the barrel is not requisite length I'd destroy it. Order the parts you would need ( a stock, barrel, extended chokes, etc.) to make it legal. Looks legal to me, but don't take my web word for it. Just don't be too quick to involve the law who have a duty to arrest you if they reasonably believe the gun you posses may be prohibited as a weapon. There are real horror stories aplenty of some good citizen trying to do the right thing and getting all hell to pay for it. --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=27.354707,-98.158178 Last edited by Baylorattorney; January 19, 2012 at 03:52 AM.

January 19, 2012, 09:52 AM	#16
Knuckle Dragger Junior Member Join Date: January 18, 2012 Posts: 3	Measuring complete. Okay guys, measured the **** out of this thing today. Here's what I've come up with. Measured the barrel using a wooden dowel, with gun cocked and came up with a measurement of just under 18.5 inches(literally a hair). Overall length of the weapon was 27 inches. Whoever modified it knew what they were doing I suppose. I put a straight edge on the end of the barrels and found that it's not exactly straight, but not noticeable unless you're really looking for it to be uneven. I consulted with a buddy of mine that owns a gun shop. He's going to come get it today to inspect it and do his official measuring stuff. I'd feel safer buying a new stock for this thing so that's probably what I'll do. I live in Kentucky, and I'm pretty sure we have the most open, gun owner friendly laws in the country. Thanks again guys.

January 19, 2012, 10:15 AM	#17
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	Contact either Numrich gun parts or... Wenigs stock maker and see if thye have a butt stock for it. Not sure where a used set of barrels might be had. Contact Rossi and see if new se tis possible. According to GCA of 1968, Min. barrel length is 18" and overall is 26". Good Luck.

January 18, 2012, 09:55 PM	#2
Baylorattorney Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2011 Posts: 177	I thought coach guns had hammers. I really like the look of that Garcia tho. It's a great sight. Welcome tho I'm pretty new here myself.

January 18, 2012, 10:02 PM	#3
Knuckle Dragger Junior Member Join Date: January 18, 2012 Posts: 3	Most coach guns I've seen have been older with external hammers. The barrel length and overall look of it is what gives me that idea. In my opinion this thing looks bad ass. just gotta figure out what it is.

January 18, 2012, 10:47 PM	#5
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	You have a Rossi coach gun. I don't think they have made / imported them for a while. Not all coach guns have external hammers; all you need do is look at the Stoger Coach Gun. Anyhow, the Amadeo Rossi SA marks are the give away. Look here for some validation Rossi USA link

January 18, 2012, 11:08 PM	#6
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	Welcome aboard and glad to have you here. Hate to rain on your parade but I would call your Local Law officer and ask what makes a shotgun illeagal in your area.

January 18, 2012, 11:13 PM	#7
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	^^^what olddrum1 said^^^ Somebody may have sold you a bunch of trouble. Remember, the Ruby Ridge incident started over a not quite legal shotgun conversion.

January 19, 2012, 12:00 AM	#8
SHNOMIDO Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 423	yea that looks under the overall length requirement to me.

January 19, 2012, 12:22 AM	#9
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I would also recommend you measure it. Has to be close.

January 19, 2012, 12:30 AM	#10
SHNOMIDO Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 423	and measure it the worst way you can. Like, if theres anyway, angle, starting points, etc that you can make that tape measure come up illegal, you better believe thats going to be the way the law measures it. Question is, if it comes up under length, what do you do with it? call the cops? break it in half and throw it in the river?

January 19, 2012, 02:51 AM	#11
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	Definitely check your state and local laws. Some are stricter than Federal.

January 19, 2012, 04:03 AM	#13
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	Baylorattorney is right about not involving law enforcement, which is not the same as checking applicable gun laws. State law should be fairly simple to check, while local law may not be too simple. For instance the California Department of Justice makes its available on the web. An altenative is to check with a local affiliate of the NRA. If you still are in doubt and thinnk your gun may violate gun laws, I would either get rid of it or consult with a local firearms attorney. You may want to start by simply identifying your state on this forum, along with the guns overall length and the length of the barrel.

January 19, 2012, 06:47 AM	#14
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	To measure the barrel, close action, drop a dowel down the barrel, and with the dowel sitting on the breechface, mark the dowel and then measure the dowel to the mark...This is the correct way to measure the barrel Then stand the gun with the muzzle on floor against a wall, and mark on the wall the end of the butt stock...This is the correct way to measure the OAL... If the barrel is fine, but the OAL is off, simply replace the stock... If the barrel is too short (less than 18), the it is illegal, and can not be made legal...

January 19, 2012, 08:03 AM	#15
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	If you find out that you need to replace that stock to make length you need to get one for a Rossi Squire. That is the gun you have. They were imported from ~1968-1989. Good luck in finding one though as the first stop to look is Numrich and they don't have any....or barrels for that matter.

January 19, 2012, 10:49 AM	#18
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	Replacing the stock is a very good idea, as the pistol gripped shotguns are a bear to shoot. Take a look on Utube people shooting that type of gun.

January 19, 2012, 01:02 PM	#19
Baylorattorney Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2011 Posts: 177	Now get a STAGECOACH! Lol. Good job.

September 13, 2012, 08:16 PM	#20
Bulldawg Junior Member Join Date: September 13, 2012 Posts: 1	Your shotgun looks awesome. I have the same shotgun (in its original form)and have been looking for a value for it for a while now. The original length of that barrel is 28". Mine is in pretty good shape, but needs an internal part. This seems to be a rare gun. All others that I've seen have external hammers or are 20 gauge. I'm interested in any info you were able to dig up during your research. Curious about value and where to find parts. Any info is appreciated. Thanks!

September 14, 2012, 08:36 PM	#21
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Well, if it is just under 18 1/2", it would probably be over 18" and that is good enough, as is the 27" overall. Someone knew the Federal law and made sure not to violate it. IMHO, trying to make it into a full length shotgun would cost way more than it is worth, even if Rossi parts were available. You might try www.gunpartscorp.com but I wouldn't hold out much hope. To have a stockmaker do a stock and a barrel outfit make barrels would cost well into the thousands. Garcia has been out of business for years, and Rossi has been taken over by Taurus. If you need parts, try contacting Taurus. Jim

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