FN Mauser Pseudo-Scout project

Alex · October 22, 1999, 01:06 PM

I recently traded an inherited 30-30 Winchester 94 for a 30-06 FN military Mauser that had been partially sporterized (bolt lowered and turned down, stock cut for lowered bolt, 3x Weaver scope mounted) plus $200.
So I have a $200 budget to turn it into a pseudo-Scout, and need some advice, as I have never done any gunsmithing work with firearms.
(I realize the scope itself costs more than that - I'm not counting the scope. And I'll probably exceed the budget, but I AM using it as a guide.)
Now, I've carried government -issued firearms for the past 15 years, but this is my first sporting rifle. I would appreciate any tips on:
Triggers - Timney, Bold, other brands? The Bold comes with a sear-blocking thumb safety - how well does this work?
Safety - the rifle has a very low-mounted Weaver scope and the current safety is inoperable. Buehler safety? Or just leave the safety disenganged and use the Bold trigger and thumb safety?
Forward mounts - The receiver has a scope mounted on it, and I would like to leave these there and use my current scope as a back-up to the Scout scope - and use the Ashley aperture sight which fits on Weaver mounts as my back-up iron sight. Can I replace the front mount with a Weaver rail that will extend over the barrel? Does anyone make this to fit a M98 Mauser? Can I relatively easily modify a mount to attach to the leaf sight holder in front and the receiver ring in rear? If I use the Ashley/Clifton Scout scope mount, will the scope clear the front receiver mount?
Cut & crown barrel - What tools do I need? Just a hacksaw and a barrelcrowning tool? Or do I need a barrel vise, levels, etc? Or should I just have a gunsmith do it? I'd like to do this myself as a learning experience and as a hobby.
Front sight - Can I "sweat" the existing military Mauser front sight off and reuse it?
How do I get the leaf rear sight off?
Stock - As the stock is already cut for the lowered bolt, I'm leaning toward cutting it down to sporter size, and pillar bedding and free-floating it. Any suggestions? Recommendations?
Finish - Cold bluing, hot blueing, parkerizing, Teflon coating, or send out for someone to matte blue? I'm leaning towaed cold blieing everything.

Thanks for any tips.

[This message has been edited by Alex (edited October 22, 1999).]

artech · October 22, 1999, 05:45 PM

Ah, you might want to fire it for accuracy before you do anything else. I got burned by buying a rifle similar to what you describe with the military barrel on it, and it turned out that someone had taken a 7.65 Argentine barrel and rechambered it in 30-06, and the bullet diameters are different.

It was one of the most inaccurate rifles I ever shot, and a new(actually used military take-off) 7mm Mauser barrel solved that problem nicely. I'm sure there are people in here with more Mauser experience than me who can verify this or tell me I'm nuts, whichever fits.

If you do need to rebarrel, hit www.brownells.com for short-chambered Mauser barrels, these are a great deal for the hobbyist, and reasonably priced in different calibers. Hopefully you have better luck than I did and won't need one!

------------------
With my shield or on it...

George Stringer · October 23, 1999, 07:52 AM

Alex, while I prefer a Dayton-Traister trigger with a Buehler type safety the Bold trigger and safety work fine. You wouldn't need the stock safety if using the Bold. There are a couple of options on the Scout Mount. Ashley-Clifton has probably the best one overall but it more or less replaces the military rear sight assembly. I would have to measure the rear sight band on the 98 to see if it would work, but I machined the rear of a Mosin Nagant to accept Weaver style rings. I would probably just put plug screws in the holes for the front mount and put it up somewhere. You can cut & crown the barrel yourself but most smiths will do it for about what you would pay for the crowning tools. You can reuse the front sight but the barrel would have to be turned down to the correct diameter in a lathe before reattaching. The rear band is also sweated on. On some there will be a set screw as well. You can cold blue the entire rifle. If you do I recommend Oxpho-Blue. You might consider teflon. Some of the work, especially the barrel work should be done by a smith. If you don't have anyone local feel free to e-mail me and I'd be happy to give you a quote. George

DeBee · October 23, 1999, 11:57 AM

Ah, sounds as if your hooked...

Actually, I have been trying to work out a superior Scout setup for a while now...

There are several solutions:

1. Immediately trade the rifle back for the Winchester 30-30 and spend $60 for a tang sight and forget about it! The Original Scout!

2. The rifle is probably Columbian made on FN TOOLING and not by FN Belgium however, on some samples the milling can be quite good. As Artech suggested, shoot the gun for accuracy before the modifications start. You'll then know if it's a keeper or if you follow recommendation #1.

If it is a stepped barrel, the Thompson Center Contender one piece mount will fit on the step pretty darn close. Drill and Tap required.

Check out the Ching Ring by Beast Enterprises. They have a web site. It's like Ashley/Clifton. JB Weld required.

Your suggestion of a Weaver rail attached to the front receiver ring extending over the barrel is what I'm fighting with now. Even a short steel base long enough to handle an Aimpoint will flex- so you need a support block machined to barrel contour then it looks like hell. I'd vastly prefer a quarter rib style base extending from the front receiver ring over the barrel- full support- hours of machining and fitting and I haven't found a suitable starting base yet...

Cut and crown no shorter than 20" the muzzle blast and concussion will be so unpleasant otherwise you won't shoot the thing much. Do it yourself with a hacksaw, Brownells 90 degree face off cutter and 11 degree target crown cutter and plenty of cutting oil to keep the metal chips out. Do a before and after accuracy test. If it's worse, take it to a smith to do... Save the front sight by using your tiniest round burr on a Dremel tool and carefully remove the welding bead around the circumference of the sight focusing on not hitting the sight itself- tap with nylon hammer it will fall into your hands... if you can't get it off, a cheap, identical replacement can be found at Gun Parts Corp.

If the saftey doesn't work, the cocking piece may have been improperly altered. Check for modifications before you begin any of this- the rifle may be unsafe! The Mauser cocking piece is $5-6 bucks- get a new one if altered.

Save the finish for last- after you decide if the rifle is a keeper or not. I like parkerizing on a field grade rifle like this- but cold blue is cheap and do it yourself and can be easily repaired. Good luck and keep it safe...

Alex · October 25, 1999, 10:27 AM

Thanks for the input guys. I'll get to work pretty soon after the deer season. For the record - and because I didn't explain it very well:
1. The rifle currently has a 3x Weaver scope mounted on it which I have already sighted in - I ended up with a three-shot 1-inch group 1.5 inches above the bull at 100 yards.
2. Although it may be a Colombian, the markings on the receiver lead one expert I've consulted to say it is a Belgian Model 50 - the definitive proof would be a "Crown L" or "Crown B" on the reciever ring - of course, this is covered by the scope mount. However, it has Belgian military surplus "broad arrow"
marks and the stock appears to be Belgian manufacture.
3. The bolt, receiver, barrel and stock all match, and are all marked with FN stamps.
4. The safety works fine - it just does not clear the scope, and is therefore unusable.

Two last questions - will I be a "butcher" if I cut down the stock more? Should I save the (slightly) modified Military stock and buy a sporter stock?

AND - Should I just recrown, restock and reblue it, forgeting the whole Pseudo - Scout thing, and leave it like it is - a 30-06 Mauser sporter with a 23-inch barrel, a 3x Weaver scope, that (hopefully) will weigh around 7-8 lbs? (It currently weighs 9 lbs - excess weight hopefully mostly from the stock and bayonet lug - way too heavy)

[This message has been edited by Alex (edited October 25, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Alex (edited October 25, 1999).]

DeBee · October 25, 1999, 03:53 PM

Alex-

A 1" group at 100yds with a 3x scope is astounding performance for a military surplus type rifle. Consequently, I would only get a safety installed by a gunsmith (this is not a good area to experiment with)and not mess with it much...

Please be aware I was not downing the Columbian Mauser built on FN tooling, as this is what I have on my bench, just differentiating from "real" FN Mausers the commercial type...

Any lastly, the only thing I'd change on that rifle is the stock. I'd save the wood and invest in a decent synthetic. Should preserve or maybe increase accuracy, look a bit better, and soak up a little recoil...

If you must have a psuedo-Scout, I'd use a similar barreled action ($100 at Springfield Sporters last time I got one) install the TC Mount, a peep of your liking, synthetic stock with rounded recoil pad, cut and crown 20", issued front sight, and have a gunsmith forge the bolt down Oberndorf style- straight down- about $30, get some stripper clips while your at it...

Alex · October 26, 1999, 02:44 PM

Good advice, DB - although I don't think I'll go synthetic - too ugly. This will NOT be a Pseudo-Scout. - and your comment about "amazing accuracy" piqued my interest, so I looked at my target again. While my final group was just shy of 1 inch, the average group was closer to 2 inches, and one group (the first) was 3 inches - but that was my fault.

Al Thompson · October 26, 1999, 06:59 PM

Alex - take a ruler (or what have you) and measure from outside diameter to outside diameter of the bullet holes on your target. Subtract the bullet diameter. This will give you the group size the eaisest way I know.

If you are gettin honest 1.5 inch groups, you have a keeper.

You didn't mention the loads - might tighten up with a change of pace. (150 grain loads may be interesting)

I would keep it as is - I have the modern equal and have no plans to scout it out.

Giz

------------------
Vote Democratic! 1 Billion Chinese can't be wrong......

Alex · October 27, 1999, 04:13 PM

So here's my thoughts so far -
NOT use this a s a Pseudo-Scout (I'll get another rifle and do that as my next project)

Timney "Sportsman" trigger $42
Timney "Buehler" safety $35
Reblue with Oxypho Cream - $15
Have gunsmith recrown - $40
(there's a lot of muzzle wear on one side of the muzzle)
Either cut the current military stock - free - and my neighbor does custom woodwork

OR get a Boyd walnut stock $54
OR, if he has it, get a custom wood stoc from a guy who does it in Ft Worth as a hobby $60
he specializes in '03's, M-1s and M-1As, but MAYBE he will do a Mauser

OR get a Brownell's zero laminated hardwood stock $160
Eventually - replace the 3x Weaver with a 4x Leupold (expensive)

Replace the aluminum Weaver mounts with steel mounts

Sound like a plan? Any comments?

The only synthetic stock I've seen that looks nice to me is the McMillan - and that's not in my price range. I'm not saying the other synthetics aren't good, or aren't superior to wood - I just think they are ugly. (McMillan also doesn't sell fully finished M98 LA stocks - it requires custom finishing.)

ALSO - I was shooting Remington Core-Lokt 150 grain loads

Thanks for your help - you guys have talked me out of "hacking" this into a P-Scout.

[This message has been edited by Alex (edited October 27, 1999).]

October 22, 1999, 01:06 PM	#1
Alex Member Join Date: October 20, 1999 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 29	I recently traded an inherited 30-30 Winchester 94 for a 30-06 FN military Mauser that had been partially sporterized (bolt lowered and turned down, stock cut for lowered bolt, 3x Weaver scope mounted) plus $200. So I have a $200 budget to turn it into a pseudo-Scout, and need some advice, as I have never done any gunsmithing work with firearms. (I realize the scope itself costs more than that - I'm not counting the scope. And I'll probably exceed the budget, but I AM using it as a guide.) Now, I've carried government -issued firearms for the past 15 years, but this is my first sporting rifle. I would appreciate any tips on: Triggers - Timney, Bold, other brands? The Bold comes with a sear-blocking thumb safety - how well does this work? Safety - the rifle has a very low-mounted Weaver scope and the current safety is inoperable. Buehler safety? Or just leave the safety disenganged and use the Bold trigger and thumb safety? Forward mounts - The receiver has a scope mounted on it, and I would like to leave these there and use my current scope as a back-up to the Scout scope - and use the Ashley aperture sight which fits on Weaver mounts as my back-up iron sight. Can I replace the front mount with a Weaver rail that will extend over the barrel? Does anyone make this to fit a M98 Mauser? Can I relatively easily modify a mount to attach to the leaf sight holder in front and the receiver ring in rear? If I use the Ashley/Clifton Scout scope mount, will the scope clear the front receiver mount? Cut & crown barrel - What tools do I need? Just a hacksaw and a barrelcrowning tool? Or do I need a barrel vise, levels, etc? Or should I just have a gunsmith do it? I'd like to do this myself as a learning experience and as a hobby. Front sight - Can I "sweat" the existing military Mauser front sight off and reuse it? How do I get the leaf rear sight off? Stock - As the stock is already cut for the lowered bolt, I'm leaning toward cutting it down to sporter size, and pillar bedding and free-floating it. Any suggestions? Recommendations? Finish - Cold bluing, hot blueing, parkerizing, Teflon coating, or send out for someone to matte blue? I'm leaning towaed cold blieing everything. Thanks for any tips. [This message has been edited by Alex (edited October 22, 1999).]

October 22, 1999, 05:45 PM	#2
artech Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 1999 Location: Southern Maine, Bushmaster Country Posts: 275	Ah, you might want to fire it for accuracy before you do anything else. I got burned by buying a rifle similar to what you describe with the military barrel on it, and it turned out that someone had taken a 7.65 Argentine barrel and rechambered it in 30-06, and the bullet diameters are different. It was one of the most inaccurate rifles I ever shot, and a new(actually used military take-off) 7mm Mauser barrel solved that problem nicely. I'm sure there are people in here with more Mauser experience than me who can verify this or tell me I'm nuts, whichever fits. If you do need to rebarrel, hit www.brownells.com for short-chambered Mauser barrels, these are a great deal for the hobbyist, and reasonably priced in different calibers. Hopefully you have better luck than I did and won't need one! ------------------ With my shield or on it...

October 23, 1999, 07:52 AM	#3
George Stringer Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Earlington KY Posts: 2,299	Alex, while I prefer a Dayton-Traister trigger with a Buehler type safety the Bold trigger and safety work fine. You wouldn't need the stock safety if using the Bold. There are a couple of options on the Scout Mount. Ashley-Clifton has probably the best one overall but it more or less replaces the military rear sight assembly. I would have to measure the rear sight band on the 98 to see if it would work, but I machined the rear of a Mosin Nagant to accept Weaver style rings. I would probably just put plug screws in the holes for the front mount and put it up somewhere. You can cut & crown the barrel yourself but most smiths will do it for about what you would pay for the crowning tools. You can reuse the front sight but the barrel would have to be turned down to the correct diameter in a lathe before reattaching. The rear band is also sweated on. On some there will be a set screw as well. You can cold blue the entire rifle. If you do I recommend Oxpho-Blue. You might consider teflon. Some of the work, especially the barrel work should be done by a smith. If you don't have anyone local feel free to e-mail me and I'd be happy to give you a quote. George

October 23, 1999, 11:57 AM	#4
DeBee Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 1999 Posts: 408	Ah, sounds as if your hooked... Actually, I have been trying to work out a superior Scout setup for a while now... There are several solutions: 1. Immediately trade the rifle back for the Winchester 30-30 and spend $60 for a tang sight and forget about it! The Original Scout! 2. The rifle is probably Columbian made on FN TOOLING and not by FN Belgium however, on some samples the milling can be quite good. As Artech suggested, shoot the gun for accuracy before the modifications start. You'll then know if it's a keeper or if you follow recommendation #1. If it is a stepped barrel, the Thompson Center Contender one piece mount will fit on the step pretty darn close. Drill and Tap required. Check out the Ching Ring by Beast Enterprises. They have a web site. It's like Ashley/Clifton. JB Weld required. Your suggestion of a Weaver rail attached to the front receiver ring extending over the barrel is what I'm fighting with now. Even a short steel base long enough to handle an Aimpoint will flex- so you need a support block machined to barrel contour then it looks like hell. I'd vastly prefer a quarter rib style base extending from the front receiver ring over the barrel- full support- hours of machining and fitting and I haven't found a suitable starting base yet... Cut and crown no shorter than 20" the muzzle blast and concussion will be so unpleasant otherwise you won't shoot the thing much. Do it yourself with a hacksaw, Brownells 90 degree face off cutter and 11 degree target crown cutter and plenty of cutting oil to keep the metal chips out. Do a before and after accuracy test. If it's worse, take it to a smith to do... Save the front sight by using your tiniest round burr on a Dremel tool and carefully remove the welding bead around the circumference of the sight focusing on not hitting the sight itself- tap with nylon hammer it will fall into your hands... if you can't get it off, a cheap, identical replacement can be found at Gun Parts Corp. If the saftey doesn't work, the cocking piece may have been improperly altered. Check for modifications before you begin any of this- the rifle may be unsafe! The Mauser cocking piece is $5-6 bucks- get a new one if altered. Save the finish for last- after you decide if the rifle is a keeper or not. I like parkerizing on a field grade rifle like this- but cold blue is cheap and do it yourself and can be easily repaired. Good luck and keep it safe...

October 25, 1999, 10:27 AM	#5
Alex Member Join Date: October 20, 1999 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 29	Thanks for the input guys. I'll get to work pretty soon after the deer season. For the record - and because I didn't explain it very well: 1. The rifle currently has a 3x Weaver scope mounted on it which I have already sighted in - I ended up with a three-shot 1-inch group 1.5 inches above the bull at 100 yards. 2. Although it may be a Colombian, the markings on the receiver lead one expert I've consulted to say it is a Belgian Model 50 - the definitive proof would be a "Crown L" or "Crown B" on the reciever ring - of course, this is covered by the scope mount. However, it has Belgian military surplus "broad arrow" marks and the stock appears to be Belgian manufacture. 3. The bolt, receiver, barrel and stock all match, and are all marked with FN stamps. 4. The safety works fine - it just does not clear the scope, and is therefore unusable. Two last questions - will I be a "butcher" if I cut down the stock more? Should I save the (slightly) modified Military stock and buy a sporter stock? AND - Should I just recrown, restock and reblue it, forgeting the whole Pseudo - Scout thing, and leave it like it is - a 30-06 Mauser sporter with a 23-inch barrel, a 3x Weaver scope, that (hopefully) will weigh around 7-8 lbs? (It currently weighs 9 lbs - excess weight hopefully mostly from the stock and bayonet lug - way too heavy) [This message has been edited by Alex (edited October 25, 1999).] [This message has been edited by Alex (edited October 25, 1999).]

October 25, 1999, 03:53 PM	#6
DeBee Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 1999 Posts: 408	Alex- A 1" group at 100yds with a 3x scope is astounding performance for a military surplus type rifle. Consequently, I would only get a safety installed by a gunsmith (this is not a good area to experiment with)and not mess with it much... Please be aware I was not downing the Columbian Mauser built on FN tooling, as this is what I have on my bench, just differentiating from "real" FN Mausers the commercial type... Any lastly, the only thing I'd change on that rifle is the stock. I'd save the wood and invest in a decent synthetic. Should preserve or maybe increase accuracy, look a bit better, and soak up a little recoil... If you must have a psuedo-Scout, I'd use a similar barreled action ($100 at Springfield Sporters last time I got one) install the TC Mount, a peep of your liking, synthetic stock with rounded recoil pad, cut and crown 20", issued front sight, and have a gunsmith forge the bolt down Oberndorf style- straight down- about $30, get some stripper clips while your at it...

October 26, 1999, 02:44 PM	#7
Alex Member Join Date: October 20, 1999 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 29	Good advice, DB - although I don't think I'll go synthetic - too ugly. This will NOT be a Pseudo-Scout. - and your comment about "amazing accuracy" piqued my interest, so I looked at my target again. While my final group was just shy of 1 inch, the average group was closer to 2 inches, and one group (the first) was 3 inches - but that was my fault.

October 26, 1999, 06:59 PM	#8
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Alex - take a ruler (or what have you) and measure from outside diameter to outside diameter of the bullet holes on your target. Subtract the bullet diameter. This will give you the group size the eaisest way I know. If you are gettin honest 1.5 inch groups, you have a keeper. You didn't mention the loads - might tighten up with a change of pace. (150 grain loads may be interesting) I would keep it as is - I have the modern equal and have no plans to scout it out. Giz ------------------ Vote Democratic! 1 Billion Chinese can't be wrong......

October 27, 1999, 04:13 PM	#9
Alex Member Join Date: October 20, 1999 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 29	So here's my thoughts so far - NOT use this a s a Pseudo-Scout (I'll get another rifle and do that as my next project) Timney "Sportsman" trigger $42 Timney "Buehler" safety $35 Reblue with Oxypho Cream - $15 Have gunsmith recrown - $40 (there's a lot of muzzle wear on one side of the muzzle) Either cut the current military stock - free - and my neighbor does custom woodwork OR get a Boyd walnut stock $54 OR, if he has it, get a custom wood stoc from a guy who does it in Ft Worth as a hobby $60 he specializes in '03's, M-1s and M-1As, but MAYBE he will do a Mauser OR get a Brownell's zero laminated hardwood stock $160 Eventually - replace the 3x Weaver with a 4x Leupold (expensive) Replace the aluminum Weaver mounts with steel mounts Sound like a plan? Any comments? The only synthetic stock I've seen that looks nice to me is the McMillan - and that's not in my price range. I'm not saying the other synthetics aren't good, or aren't superior to wood - I just think they are ugly. (McMillan also doesn't sell fully finished M98 LA stocks - it requires custom finishing.) ALSO - I was shooting Remington Core-Lokt 150 grain loads Thanks for your help - you guys have talked me out of "hacking" this into a P-Scout. [This message has been edited by Alex (edited October 27, 1999).]