Do you have to trim handgun cases?

Dizzy · October 25, 2009, 11:04 AM

I am curious. I do know that you should buy a case trimmer for rifle casings. But what about handgun casings do they need to be trimmed as well. I just started loading. I dont want to invest in a case trimmer if I will never use it. I do not load my own rifle rounds. I only shoot handgun currently. I may eventually pick a rifle but dont know yet!

Foxbat · October 25, 2009, 11:32 AM

No.

That'll Do · October 25, 2009, 11:33 AM

You'll find that a large number of folks don't trim their handgun brass. I don't normally trim it, and I haven't had any problems.

The only brass I'll trim is 357 Mag brass that I use for silhouette and/or pin shooting, because I want a uniform roll crimp on each cartridge.

Jim243 · October 25, 2009, 11:43 AM

This is going to be one of those maybe.

You have rimed and rimless handgun cases out their. As an example, 45 ACP is rimless while 45 Colt is rimed.

While the general accepted opinion is that all cases, even new should be re-sized and trimed, it is not always necessary to do so.

The rimless cases seat within the chamber of your gun on the mouth of the case, it is therefore important that the case be the correct length (COL) too large a case will not let the gun go to full battery (completely closed). Too short a case could result in a jammed case in your chamber. Rimless cases are not crimped because of this.

Rimed cases are generally used in revolvers and index (seat) on the cylinder of the revolver with the rim. It is more important that the Over All Lenght of the cartrage (with the bullet in it) is correct (OAL). Too long and your cylinder will not revolve (jam), too short and the bullet will hit the "Forcing Cone" (that part just before the barrel) of the revolver off center and will not be accurate.

When a firearm is fired, a great amount of heat is produced in the chamber that effects the case by making it soft and the case will "flow" to the deminsions of the chamber (this is call fire forming the case) this is done most often with rifle cases than handgun.

When the case "flows" it changes shape and sometimes size.

When you start out the reloading process you should measure the length of your cases to make sure they are in spec for the COL, if they are then you do not need to trim, if not you will need to trim them.

But your question is "Should you buy a case trimmer?"

My answer is "YES". you may not need to use it all the time, but having it on hand when you need it (and sometimes you will need it) is priceless.

Good luck and have fun.

Jim

The other two posts where placed before I finished mine, 90% of the time you will not need to trim, but my answer still remains the same "Yes", as brass is fired over and over it will start to streach and will need to be trimmed, it depends on how often it is has been used and how hot a reload you are using.

Jim

MOREAMMO · October 25, 2009, 11:59 AM

About a month ago I went to the local gun shop looking for a shell holder for my RCBS case trimmer for the 9mm. The guy behind the counter looked at me and said "WHY"? "Do you trickle your powder in your handgun cases too? Among other things he said he also told me that for twenty years he had loaded pistol ammo for their range guns and has never trimmed cases. So I do not trim for my 9mm's and have had no issues. Plus it goes much faster not having to debur if you did trim. As a previous poster stated, I do trim for my 357, especially when loading heavier loads that a good and tight crimp is needed.

Farmland · October 25, 2009, 12:06 PM

Just for the heck of it I trimmed about 100 of my 40 S&W cases. The thing I noticed at first was that my bullet seating was more constant. I had better groups but not enough to justify doing it long term.

Other than this experiment I have never trimmed by handgun cases. The rounds have always performed 100% not trimmed. I just load them the way they are. From my understanding a straight wall pistol case doesn't grow as much as a bottle neck case.

So for general shooting of an IPSC type event I would say you don't have to worry about trimming. I think if I was into bulls eye type of shooting I might consider it to see if it improved my groups.

Jim243 · October 25, 2009, 12:19 PM

If money is your concern this is the cheapest way to go:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=515804
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=136199
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=389104
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=439386

You will need all four of these items

Jim

Foxbat · October 25, 2009, 03:08 PM

"90% of the time you will not need to trim,"

Well, in almost 30 years of doing reloading I have never trimmed a case, and in perhaps 200,000 or 300,000 rounds that I have loaded I have not once had a case not chamber due to too long dimension. Several calibers, brass that came from all sorts of sources.

So I don't see any justification for that 90% number. I think it should rather be 99.999%.

Don't forget, all guns have chambers slightly larger than the cartridge dimensions.

Farmland · October 25, 2009, 04:55 PM

Fox not so true, I have some match grade barrels that pretty much have a lot tighter tolerances. However In all of my reloading I never had a case that wouldn't chamber because it was too long.

buffalo · October 25, 2009, 05:01 PM

I load for 9mm,.40,.45acp and do not trim those at all,just my rifle brass.

wncchester · October 25, 2009, 05:09 PM

I trim my .44 and .357 mag hunting ammo cases (a very small portion of the total hand gun stuff I make up) not because I have to but to insure the crimps are consistant.

HiBC · October 25, 2009, 05:16 PM

Ok,one tool you should have is a good caliper.
Every time you load,take a random 10 or so samples,and measure them.

Look for them to be within the specs in the manual,and also look for them to be uniform,and square.If its all good,you don't need to trim.

Cases like 9mm and 45 headspace on the case mouths,and most all handgun ammo can use some crimp.

Revolver cartridges need a strong crimp.

Square,uniform cases make for uniform crimps.This contributes to uniform ignition and better accuracy.

If you do buy a case trimmer buy one that works efficiently,rather than the cheapest possible

Foxbat · October 25, 2009, 05:34 PM

"Fox not so true, I have some match grade barrels that pretty much have a lot tighter tolerances."

Of course they are tighter, but still, they always have plus tolerances from the specs. Just like ammo always has negative ones.

floydster · October 25, 2009, 06:19 PM

Been loading for 52 years, never trimmed a pistol case.
Smokeyloads

emcon5 · October 25, 2009, 07:11 PM

For what it's worth, I sat down once with about 800 9mm cases with a Lee trimmer. Of those cases, the trimer removed material from exactly 2.

Never bothered trimming pistol cases again.

CrustyFN · October 25, 2009, 07:16 PM

For an auto loader I would say no. Some people like to trim revolver brass to get a more consistant crimp.

minniedog2 · October 25, 2009, 08:18 PM

I measure but have yet to trim

joneb · October 25, 2009, 10:01 PM

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=381181

Winterhawk56 · October 25, 2009, 10:18 PM

I find that my 44 mag, 500 smith usually have to be trimmed after the 3rd reloading.

My .357 mag brass in dependent on the manufacture. Federal and Remington brass goes a long way unless I load close to max rounds for hunting then its about three to four reloads before trimming is required. .38 special is almost none and last for after 7 or 8 reloads.

Most all my .45, 9MM, .40 SW and 10MM do not required trimming. It seems the cases do not stretch very much. I have experiences case mouth deformation and in that situation I trim so they seat better. (The mouth is the shoulder/head spacing with a 9MM, .45, 40SW and 10MM) this is critical!

The bottom line, brass will stretch when reloaded enough. If its too long it can cause trouble in the chamber plus crimping can become more difficult. I recommend trimming when the case reaches the maximum length but you decide.

One factor I rely on is when the brass needs a third trimming I usually crush the case as its becoming too thin at the base and risk separation.

This is my recommendation but by all means gather your own knowledge. I am one opinion.

FrankenMauser · October 26, 2009, 01:12 AM

You'll find that with most common handgun cartridges fired in an auto-loader, the cases actually shrink with repeated firings. If you ever need to trim them, it is before the first firing. After that, trimming only serves to give you a consistent case length. Experiment to find out exactly what your pistols do to your cases.

Other repeaters and single shots are a different story. Some cause stretching, some cause shrinkage, and some don't show a change in case length. It's best to monitor a couple lots of brass (different brands), and see what your pistols do.

Stumper · October 26, 2009, 08:50 AM

Jim243. The application of heat in the chamber at firing is too brief to cause brass flow-brass flows due to pressure.

But Jim is absolutely correct that the answer regarding handgun case trimming is "Maybe". I never trim fired rimless autoloader cases-as someone else stated they seldom change other than to actual shorten in some instances. Rimmed revolver cases get trimmed seldom but occassionally, for purposes of consistent crimp, I do so.

October 25, 2009, 11:04 AM	#1
Dizzy Member Join Date: October 20, 2009 Location: Philly area Posts: 43	Do you have to trim handgun cases? I am curious. I do know that you should buy a case trimmer for rifle casings. But what about handgun casings do they need to be trimmed as well. I just started loading. I dont want to invest in a case trimmer if I will never use it. I do not load my own rifle rounds. I only shoot handgun currently. I may eventually pick a rifle but dont know yet!

October 25, 2009, 11:43 AM	#4
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	This is going to be one of those maybe. You have rimed and rimless handgun cases out their. As an example, 45 ACP is rimless while 45 Colt is rimed. While the general accepted opinion is that all cases, even new should be re-sized and trimed, it is not always necessary to do so. The rimless cases seat within the chamber of your gun on the mouth of the case, it is therefore important that the case be the correct length (COL) too large a case will not let the gun go to full battery (completely closed). Too short a case could result in a jammed case in your chamber. Rimless cases are not crimped because of this. Rimed cases are generally used in revolvers and index (seat) on the cylinder of the revolver with the rim. It is more important that the Over All Lenght of the cartrage (with the bullet in it) is correct (OAL). Too long and your cylinder will not revolve (jam), too short and the bullet will hit the "Forcing Cone" (that part just before the barrel) of the revolver off center and will not be accurate. When a firearm is fired, a great amount of heat is produced in the chamber that effects the case by making it soft and the case will "flow" to the deminsions of the chamber (this is call fire forming the case) this is done most often with rifle cases than handgun. When the case "flows" it changes shape and sometimes size. When you start out the reloading process you should measure the length of your cases to make sure they are in spec for the COL, if they are then you do not need to trim, if not you will need to trim them. But your question is "Should you buy a case trimmer?" My answer is "YES". you may not need to use it all the time, but having it on hand when you need it (and sometimes you will need it) is priceless. Good luck and have fun. Jim The other two posts where placed before I finished mine, 90% of the time you will not need to trim, but my answer still remains the same "Yes", as brass is fired over and over it will start to streach and will need to be trimmed, it depends on how often it is has been used and how hot a reload you are using. Jim Last edited by Jim243; October 25, 2009 at 12:04 PM.

October 25, 2009, 07:16 PM	#16
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	For an auto loader I would say no. Some people like to trim revolver brass to get a more consistant crimp. __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

October 26, 2009, 01:12 AM	#20
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	You'll find that with most common handgun cartridges fired in an auto-loader, the cases actually shrink with repeated firings. If you ever need to trim them, it is before the first firing. After that, trimming only serves to give you a consistent case length. Experiment to find out exactly what your pistols do to your cases. Other repeaters and single shots are a different story. Some cause stretching, some cause shrinkage, and some don't show a change in case length. It's best to monitor a couple lots of brass (different brands), and see what your pistols do. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

October 26, 2009, 08:50 AM	#21
Stumper Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 438	Jim243. The application of heat in the chamber at firing is too brief to cause brass flow-brass flows due to pressure. But Jim is absolutely correct that the answer regarding handgun case trimming is "Maybe". I never trim fired rimless autoloader cases-as someone else stated they seldom change other than to actual shorten in some instances. Rimmed revolver cases get trimmed seldom but occassionally, for purposes of consistent crimp, I do so. __________________ "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready." Theodore Roosevelt "If only God has magic, how does Santa get down the chimney?" Natalie Peters age 4

October 25, 2009, 11:32 AM	#2
Foxbat Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2008 Posts: 367	No.

October 25, 2009, 11:33 AM	#3
That'll Do Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 546	You'll find that a large number of folks don't trim their handgun brass. I don't normally trim it, and I haven't had any problems. The only brass I'll trim is 357 Mag brass that I use for silhouette and/or pin shooting, because I want a uniform roll crimp on each cartridge.

October 25, 2009, 11:59 AM	#5
MOREAMMO Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2009 Location: Southeast WI Posts: 144	About a month ago I went to the local gun shop looking for a shell holder for my RCBS case trimmer for the 9mm. The guy behind the counter looked at me and said "WHY"? "Do you trickle your powder in your handgun cases too? Among other things he said he also told me that for twenty years he had loaded pistol ammo for their range guns and has never trimmed cases. So I do not trim for my 9mm's and have had no issues. Plus it goes much faster not having to debur if you did trim. As a previous poster stated, I do trim for my 357, especially when loading heavier loads that a good and tight crimp is needed.

October 25, 2009, 12:06 PM	#6
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	Just for the heck of it I trimmed about 100 of my 40 S&W cases. The thing I noticed at first was that my bullet seating was more constant. I had better groups but not enough to justify doing it long term. Other than this experiment I have never trimmed by handgun cases. The rounds have always performed 100% not trimmed. I just load them the way they are. From my understanding a straight wall pistol case doesn't grow as much as a bottle neck case. So for general shooting of an IPSC type event I would say you don't have to worry about trimming. I think if I was into bulls eye type of shooting I might consider it to see if it improved my groups.

October 25, 2009, 12:19 PM	#7
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	If money is your concern this is the cheapest way to go: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=515804 http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=136199 http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=389104 http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=439386 You will need all four of these items Jim

October 25, 2009, 03:08 PM	#8
Foxbat Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2008 Posts: 367	"90% of the time you will not need to trim," Well, in almost 30 years of doing reloading I have never trimmed a case, and in perhaps 200,000 or 300,000 rounds that I have loaded I have not once had a case not chamber due to too long dimension. Several calibers, brass that came from all sorts of sources. So I don't see any justification for that 90% number. I think it should rather be 99.999%. Don't forget, all guns have chambers slightly larger than the cartridge dimensions.

October 25, 2009, 04:55 PM	#9
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	Fox not so true, I have some match grade barrels that pretty much have a lot tighter tolerances. However In all of my reloading I never had a case that wouldn't chamber because it was too long.

October 25, 2009, 05:01 PM	#10
buffalo Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2009 Location: SW Florida Posts: 103	I load for 9mm,.40,.45acp and do not trim those at all,just my rifle brass.

October 25, 2009, 05:09 PM	#11
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	I trim my .44 and .357 mag hunting ammo cases (a very small portion of the total hand gun stuff I make up) not because I have to but to insure the crimps are consistant.

October 25, 2009, 05:16 PM	#12
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	Ok,one tool you should have is a good caliper. Every time you load,take a random 10 or so samples,and measure them. Look for them to be within the specs in the manual,and also look for them to be uniform,and square.If its all good,you don't need to trim. Cases like 9mm and 45 headspace on the case mouths,and most all handgun ammo can use some crimp. Revolver cartridges need a strong crimp. Square,uniform cases make for uniform crimps.This contributes to uniform ignition and better accuracy. If you do buy a case trimmer buy one that works efficiently,rather than the cheapest possible

October 25, 2009, 05:34 PM	#13
Foxbat Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2008 Posts: 367	"Fox not so true, I have some match grade barrels that pretty much have a lot tighter tolerances." Of course they are tighter, but still, they always have plus tolerances from the specs. Just like ammo always has negative ones.

October 25, 2009, 06:19 PM	#14
floydster Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2008 Posts: 472	Been loading for 52 years, never trimmed a pistol case. Smokeyloads

October 25, 2009, 07:11 PM	#15
emcon5 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 1999 Location: High Desert NV Posts: 2,850	For what it's worth, I sat down once with about 800 9mm cases with a Lee trimmer. Of those cases, the trimer removed material from exactly 2. Never bothered trimming pistol cases again.

October 25, 2009, 08:18 PM	#17
minniedog2 Member Join Date: April 7, 2007 Location: Amarillo TX Posts: 31	I measure but have yet to trim

October 25, 2009, 10:01 PM	#18
joneb Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2005 Location: Central , OR Posts: 1,888	http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=381181

October 25, 2009, 10:18 PM	#19
Winterhawk56 Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 228	I find that my 44 mag, 500 smith usually have to be trimmed after the 3rd reloading. My .357 mag brass in dependent on the manufacture. Federal and Remington brass goes a long way unless I load close to max rounds for hunting then its about three to four reloads before trimming is required. .38 special is almost none and last for after 7 or 8 reloads. Most all my .45, 9MM, .40 SW and 10MM do not required trimming. It seems the cases do not stretch very much. I have experiences case mouth deformation and in that situation I trim so they seat better. (The mouth is the shoulder/head spacing with a 9MM, .45, 40SW and 10MM) this is critical! The bottom line, brass will stretch when reloaded enough. If its too long it can cause trouble in the chamber plus crimping can become more difficult. I recommend trimming when the case reaches the maximum length but you decide. One factor I rely on is when the brass needs a third trimming I usually crush the case as its becoming too thin at the base and risk separation. This is my recommendation but by all means gather your own knowledge. I am one opinion.