Sporterizing?

[Jak300gt]

Witch bolt action military rifle is the easiest to sporterize? Based on aftermarket part availability and work involved. Also I would like to keep the original price of the gun on the lower range. I know mossen are cheap but what else is out there?

[F. Guffey]

I am most fortunate; I do not have to look, but if I was starting over I would look for Mausers.

F. Guffey

[Clark]

I have been sporterized Mausers for 50 years, coming up on 51.

If I put a new barrel, stock, bolt handle, scope bases, etc on a Sav 110 or Rem700 it feels like I am sporterizing them too.
The are easier than a Mauser. No bolt to weld, no drill and tap.


The Mosin Nagant is harder than a Mauser. The extractor relief cut is work.

Converting a Mauser to 300 Win mag in harder still, but works.

Converting Mausers or Mosins to 223 is so hard, I don't want to do it again. And that is a single shot.

[Jak300gt]

Ya I'm not looking to rechamber. I'm going to leave the original cartridge.

[Roughedge]

I sporterized a Mauser I had since I was a kid and hunt with it all the time. Find a good load for the Hornandy 8mm bullet and it works great.

[HiBC]

I have built several.
It matters what sort of rifle you want to end up with,and why you are going this route.
As far as the receivers of choice? 98 Mauser and Springfield
However...Springfields are scarce,unmodified,and desirable to return to military trim.
A good 98 makes a nice rifle.But as a complete rifle,they bring some good money.
You won't save money ,especially if you have to pay for gunsmithing.
If you want a milsurp sporter,I suggest you take advantage of the fact they do not bring a lot of money on the market.Over the years,a LOT of milsurps have been sportered.
So,begin a search.Make the rounds of gunshows and gunshops.Pawnshops.You will see a lot of overpriced guns,of course.Some good,some junk.

But there are a LOT of OLD GUYS. Old guys with nice rifles.Old guys who can't hunt so much any more.Old guys with more guns than toes,who dread their collections being sold ravaged by deadbeat son in laws or who just have no one to pass them on to.

Network your way into some old guy gun cranks.Let them know you appreciate the old wood and steel guns,hand made.

You want what they have in the safe or closet.Good luck.

[Jak300gt]

Thanks HiBC. I'm just looking for a project to help me with gunsmithing. It will be used to kill paper only. Unless it turns into a real shooter then it may be used for varmint hunting. But mostly practice and confidence builder is what I'm aiming for. So I'll probably at this time look into a mossen.

Would a semi-auto be a better choice? Sks for instance

[Wyosmith]

"Witch bolt action military rifle is the easiest to sporterize?"

Mausers, without a doubt.

The Springfield 1903, 03A1 and 03A3 are also easy if you don't change the barrels.

[HiBC]

Ok.If you want a project rifle to learn on,the 98 Mauser is a good choice.
You might find a barreled action,or the old cut down "utility sporter" where the stock has been cut,receiver sight installed,etc..

I'm sure you are aware that a complete,sound,original Military Mauser might well bring as much as a good used Mark 10,Husqvarna,or Remchester.

It would be rosy if you can find something already altered from original.

I'll say again,of those folks still alive,its the gun cranks of the 60's,and 70's that were still building a lot of milsurp sporters.

At 63 yrs,I'm one of the younger ones.

Many are 70's,or older. They have more guns than years left..Whether meeting them at a range,LGS,or the coffee shop,get aquainted.Have some spare time.Listen to what they will pass on to you.
Eventually,Let them know you want to learn and gain experience.You want a project to work with.

Hopefully you find the guy with 7 or 8 projects in some stage of development that have been aging in corners and closets for years.

And a fair number of these guys don't have the right folks to pass this stuff on to among family and friends.

The idea of these guns being sold for meth money or destroyed after a buy-back program....or going to some jerk they don't like,well,it is not happy.

"You want to do WHAT??? Learn to build a wood and steel RIFLE???..Come here let me show you!!You see here? P O Ackley built this one,Al Beisen built this one....Now,this is an 8MM Husqvarna built on a 98,And I made this 308 Norma on an 03A3.....
Heck,where is that...here!!this is a Mexican 98 action I put a 257 Roberts barrel on for somebody...never finished it.I could let you....

That's what I suggest you find.An Old Man.

It will be good for him,and good for you.

He might not have had anyone listen or be interested in 15 years.

And he has treasure to pass on

[4V50 Gary]

Clark - what about converting a short action Mauser to 223?

[tobnpr]

Thanks HiBC. I'm just looking for a project to help me with gunsmithing.

Ya I'm not looking to rechamber. I'm going to leave the original cartridge.

Not sure what you're after here, and what you consider "sporterizing"

Cutting and/or re-crowning a barrel? Stock replacement? Pillar/receiver bedding? D&T scope mounts?

If it's a project to learn "gunsmithing", re-barreling would need to be a part of it, changing chamberings-unless magazine/boltface modifications are needed, is just a variable. Cutting the chamber needs to be done regardless of choice.

What equipment (lathe, mill) do you have, or have access to?

[F. Guffey]

Ya I'm not looking to rechamber. I'm going to leave the original cartridge.

jak300jt,there are 7mm57 chambers, 7.65mm53 chambers and there are 8mm57 chambers. I was told a few old Mausers were suspect because they had large shank barrels with small ring receivers. I purchased one with an 8mm57 chamber then chambered it to 8mm06. I was told the 8mm06 chamber would render the thin small ring receiver scrap when fired. It did not happen; point, I have other barrels with large shanks with chambers that are approved for small ring Mausers.

I purchased four rifles that were sold as suspect for $25.00 each. I used one barrel and one bolt to test all four receivers. Again, the receivers were uniquely different from other Mausers.

I purchased Model 38 Turkish rifles chambered to 8mm57, I chambered one to 8mm06. My opinion going from 8mm57 to 8mm06 is the most improvement for the least amount of expense.

Back to the Mauser with the large shank and small ring receiver, I have no fewer than 40 Mauser barrels, getting the rifle back to 8mm57 is no problem and for those that sweat the small ring there are large ring shanks with chambers that are more user friendly.

I picked up an Argentine 1891, I was told it was a 308 W, I corrected the owner. After checking the rifle I found the rifle was a 308 W, the bore was/is .300/308. The barrel started its life as a M1917 and was cut/ground/ chambered to a small ring barrel and maintained the configuration of a Argentite 1891. I called the owner, I reminded him of what I said when I picked the rifle up. He said when friends showed up to hunt without a rifle he used ‘that one’ as a loaner. I have not made it to the range with that one but it is something I have to do. I know, I will start with starting loads.

F. Guffey

[Gunplummer]

If you keep the original barrel, probably a Carcano. The scope gets side mounted and the original safety will work. The bolt handle will have to be bent, but it will clear with out cutting and welding. That is probably the cheapest and easiest military rifle to convert. I am guessing you have both limited funds and equipment. It is the little things that nickel and dime you into the hole.

[Clark]

4V50 Gary

Clark - what about converting a short action Mauser to 223?

I have a CZ527 in 19 Badger. Piece of junk.



Here is a 223 converted from a 1903 Turk with a 16" twist Douglas barrel.
It shoots 40 gr Vmax.

[Jak300gt]

Yes it will be just a project for something to do. I am not and will not be set up to rebarrel a rifle any time soon. So that's why I will leave it in the original chamber at this time. In the future maybe. At this time I'm just dabbling in hobby gun smithing for my self. I've seen a few sporterized mossen and mousers online and thought it would be a cool project. Just cut down the barrel, recrown, and new stock. Not looking to build complete from ground up. If I was to do that then I would just build a remington 700 action. Witch is on my bucket list. For now my only real question was witch one is easier to do. Witch sounds like the mouser. Thank you everyone for your input.

[Scorch]

Clark- I saw a fully functional Vz24 in 223 a few years ago. I was amazed. It fed from the magazine flawlessly. I should have bought it.

As far as good rifles to sporterize, K98ks for projects are drying up, you can buy a new Remington 700 for what they bring these days. Other M98 variants may not cost so much (Brazilizn 1906s and Vz24s are still pretty cheap), and M48s are still pretty cheap. But really, what do you hope to accomplish by taking a $500 rifle and whacking off the forearm and barrel other than turning it into a $200 rifle? As others have said, find one someone else sporterized and be done with it.

[Jak300gt]

I just thought it would be fun to give it a go. At this point I'll probably put this project to rest. Thanks again for all the information. And I'll keep an eye out for that old guy.

[Mobuck]

As luck would have it, I "found" a pair of VZ24 actions that seem to have been "lost" for 5-6 years. The details are fuzzy after so long but it looks like they were brought home from a trip to the machine shop for D&T and got stuck in a box of other stuff. One has a matching bolt while the other is just a bare receiver but both have the common one-piece bases that I was using during my "Mauser phase".
Now I'll need to dig through my stash of barrels and see what I can come up with and then raid the parts boxes for the remainder of the stuff to complete them.

[tobnpr]

Hope you have the parts you're looking for.
I've had a "watch" on for a K98 receiver to use for a build.
Last one sold for ridiculousmoney- I mean, $150 for a STRIPPED receiver.

With the cost of parts to complete- which are also insane- you're looking at something like $350 by the time you add the bolt ($100+) and the other parts.

Just doesn't make sense to use milsurps for builds anymore. I can go to the pawn shop and buy a used Rem 700, Savage, etc. for $300 or less for the complete action. Or, a new 700 ADL at Wally World when on sale for about the same.

I've wanted to do a 6 m or 6.5mm off a trued Mauser action, but no way I'll pay more than I would for a 700 action to do it.

[Mobuck]

"Hope you have the parts you're looking for."

I'm pretty sure I can assemble 5 or 6 rifles (minus stocks) from my stock of small parts. I think there's only one stock on hand but that's easy to fix.
I hate having to ship the parts out for barrel fitting. Last one got ruined but the shop made it right(and maybe gave me a better barrel than the one I'd sent).

[Clark]

Scorch
Clark- I saw a fully functional Vz24 in 223 a few years ago. I was amazed. It fed from the magazine flawlessly. I should have bought it.

As far as good rifles to sporterize, K98ks for projects are drying up, you can buy a new Remington 700 for what they bring these days. Other M98 variants may not cost so much (Brazilizn 1906s and Vz24s are still pretty cheap), and M48s are still pretty cheap. But really, what do you hope to accomplish by taking a $500 rifle and whacking off the forearm and barrel other than turning it into a $200 rifle? As others have said, find one someone else sporterized and be done with it.

~12 years ago I saw a 223 Turk Mauser that the late Randy Ketchum of Lynnwood Guns built that had an AR15 mag welded in place. He built is custom. The guy brought it back. I was on the shelf for $150 or something like that.

He used to do gunsmithing that was over my head for $35/hour.
I had to convince him it was an interesting project.

I used to go in there, buy a pound of powder, and ask some dumb question about sporterizing Mausers. He told me that accurizing a Rem700 was the cheapest path to accuracy, only in competition with buying new Rem700s, testing the for accuracy and reselling until you find a good one.

So I have built a couple Rem700s. I don't like them as much as Mausers, 1885s or Ruger #1s, but Rem700s and Sav110s are a fast path to accuracy. Just get a premium barrel on it.

[Gunplummer]

Intent is everything. Shooting at 500 yards is fine out west. Not so fine on the east coast. There is a big difference what people see as "Sporterized" just because of the area they hunt in. I don't even know what the OP plans on doing with this rifle. Maybe all he needs is a new stock and some better sights.

[F. Guffey]

Ya I'm not looking to rechamber. I'm going to leave the original cartridge.

I have a 03 Remington, the original owner was trying to sell it at a gun show in Mesquite TX. I thought it was a good thing he was not sensitive because the dealers had nothing kind to say about his rifle. I ask a dealer if it was OK for me to make an offer. Anyhow they thought Santa Fe/Golden State were bad words to find on a rifle; for that reason it seemed he would have had to pay them to take the rifle.

I purchased the rifle for $150.00, that price included two boxes of 30/06 R-P ammo that was purchased from Sears with the rifle. I needed a 03A3 type receiver for a 03A4 barrel. I took the rifle to the range with one box of the R-P ammo to test fire. I could not believe the accuracy of the rifle. I ‘lefter’ the way I founder’. I am told it is not worth much because it has been blued. I almost sent it home with my grandsons but there is a problem; it is not tapped and drilled for a scope.

I honestly believe Golden State did a magnificent job with the appearance of the rifle and the accuracy can keep up with my 1905 303 Ross.

At the same show there was talk about a presentation Mauser a dealer was asking $140.00 for. Other dealers convinced him it was worth much more because of the Big Eagle in the circle stamp on the receiver. The dealer took the rifle off of the table. About the last thing I did was make my way to the back corner table, I asked the dealer if he still had the rifle and if he did would he allow me to look at it. I suggested he sell the rifle at the first opportunity because his presentation Mauser was made by National Arms, which would be after Golden State ran out of receivers.

F. Guffey

[HuntingLikeABadHabit]

I second a lot of what is said above. If it is the gun you are looking for then there are some really nice sporterized pieces to be had out there right now and for the most part they are available at good price points.

If it is the experience you are after then I would look for a Mauser. The price point is there, they have tons of parts available and one can find a boat load of literature on cutting mausers (learn from others' mistakes). They do present their own challenges but that's where you learn.

If you do decide to build, take your time and do it right. Dont cut corners or bubba one up if you can help it, I always think of it like this. One day I will be tits up in a hole and my kid will end up with my gun safes. When he is reading up on sporterized weapons of the 20th century I want him to say "Dad made a really nice piece on that 30.06" not "Dad really screwed the pooch with that old junker..."

[F. Guffey]

Jak300gt, I have a few hand select Model 38 Turkish Mausers chambered to 8mm57, if you are interested I will sell one for $200.00. I made a visit to my favorite gun parts store, he had complete actions for sale at the same $200.00 price. That would be without the stock and without the barrel.

F. Guffey