Seattle proposes tax on guns and ammo

[rickyrick]

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-...-on-gun-sales/

Because cities routinely tax items that harm people; the Seattle council president is proposing a tax on guns and ammo sales.

Also they wish to impose fines on people that don't report their missing guns

[ballardw]

Because cities routinely tax items that harm people; the Seattle council president is proposing a tax on guns and ammo sales.

So show me the tax on knives, bats, rocks, pieces of pipe, fists, feet and perhaps the biggest problem politicians.

[KyJim]

But you left out the most important part:

Seattle will likely be sued if one bill or both become law, Burgess says. The state’s pre-emption statute prohibits municipalities from regulating firearms, including their “registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation … or any other element.” It also says they can enact “only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law.”

The pre-emption statute is why Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Bellevue-based Second Amendment Foundation, says a Seattle tax is “dead on arrival.”

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-...-on-gun-sales/

I don't know Washington state politics but this sort of proposal by larger cities is the reason a number of states have preemption statutes.

[rickyrick]

I didn't read that far, I skimmed it to see if worthy of posting. Still at work lol.

[44 AMP]

The pre-emtption law will either prevent passage, or will be the basis for throwing it out on its first court challenge.

The good folk of Seattle line up gladly to tax beer, wine, cigarettes, and soda pop, but whine like whipped pups if anyone even breathes a hint of applying the SAME TAX on their Starbuck's coffee!

[rickyrick]

Starbucks is bad for you.... At least some of the chemical Carmels.

Gun loving is still strong down Vantucky way

[kilimanjaro]

Politics in Washington state are pretty simple. Seattle, Olympia, and Bellingham are liberal cities and their votes outnumber the remainder of the state. So these urban enclaves of students and yuppies run roughshod over the more rural, agricultural, small town conservative population. The usual Gerrymandered districts, voter fraud, and a liberal press keep the situation stable.

Last year's public vote on background checks for private sales is an example. The Legislature turned it down two years running, so the Initiative process was used to get the liberal vote out, and Seattle rammed it down the states' throat.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by rickyrick

Starbucks is bad for you.... At least some of the chemical Carmels.

No it's not; Starbucks is no worse for you than any other coffee that has fat and sugar in it. The rumor about their flavoring was started by an idiotic food blogger who has zero training in nutrition and just makes stuff up to get Web traffic. I don't go to Starbucks and I don't really care about them, but it annoys me when people make a living by spreading BS regarding health and nutrition.

Anyway, back on topic: As a WA taxpayer, this really angers me. Seattle must know this won't go anywhere because of the state premption laws. So what's the overall goal here? Do they honestly think this law will stick? I find that hard to believe considering how Seattle has tried stuff like this before only to lose in court. So will they see this as some sort of moral victory in the end? Or is it just a political ploy to show their constituents that they tried something and then blame the "gun nuts" for the bill being shot down in court? In any case, this means that Seattle has absolutely no problem wasting state time and money on legislation and lawsuits that they know will just get shot down in the end.

[CowTowner]

this means that Seattle has absolutely no problem wasting state time and money on legislation and lawsuits that they know will just get shot down in the end.

Misuse of public funds? I don't know the laws in Washington, but I'm confident they have something similar on the books.

[44 AMP]

Or is it just a political ploy to show their constituents that they tried something and then blame the "gun nuts" for the bill being shot down in court? In any case, this means that Seattle has absolutely no problem wasting state time and money on legislation and lawsuits that they know will just get shot down in the end.

This is the most likely explanation, in my opinion.

They have NO problem wasting money. And when they run short, due to their own greed and excesses, they tax the rest of the state to pay for their ferry, or new sports stadium, or freeway, or....

God Bless Seattle, may it rust in peace....

[rickyrick]

Well sorry about the Starbucks chemical remark, sugary drinks are bad for you.... The caramel taste chemical to me so I let it be...


The politics in WA and the PNW are way different than West Texas where I moved from. The population is definitely not evenly distributed. Not density nor politically.,
I have lots of wide-eyed learning to do. Since the preemption was explained, it does seem like a waste of public funds

[Sequins]

I live in Seattle and here is my insight,

Seattle just switched from "at large" city elections to a ward healer district system. Tim Burgess, city council chair, is not going to win re-election in a districted race, so he is trying to convince his new district he is as blue as they are. Tim has a pretty rightwing compromise at every turn reputation and he got a super lefty district.

This won't even pass I bet, he is just desperate. Seattle also has a literal communist on city council.

[JERRYS.]

it would seem as Seattle goes, so goes the rest of the state.

[44 AMP]

it would seem as Seattle goes, so goes the rest of the state.

Not always, but most of the time. They try real hard to drag the rest of us down whatever rat/rabbit hole they fancy at the time.

the background check thing is a case in point. After defeating the bills in two election cycles, they got around us by using the ballot initiative. Wildly inaccurate (aka LYING) commercials convinced the 5 counties in the Sea-Tac corridor to pass it, and their population outweighed the entire rest of the state.

THat law is absolute crap. It cannot be enforced as written, the state is not providing guidance to LEO, various state LE agencies have stated they will not enforce it, absent further guidance, and it is being challenged in court.

Gun shows I have been to recently are doing "voluntary compliance" pending the court decision.

[johnwilliamson062]

I distilled some water today and it tasted pretty chemically. No surprise, after all Dihydrogen Monoxide(DHMO) is linked to thousands of deaths a year. It is almost impossible to remove this chemical from your water no matter how many times you distill the water.

Where does the tax go?

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062

I distilled some water today and it tasted pretty chemically. No surprise, after all Dihydrogen Monoxide(DHMO) is linked to thousands of deaths a year. It is almost impossible to remove this chemical from your water no matter how many times you distill the water.

Yeah, dihydrogen monoxide is scary stuff. Did you know that DHMO is used as a major ingredient in yoga mats, it's used as an industrial coolant in nuclear reactions, it causes structural breakdown of steel, and it can easily kill you if you inhale it? We need to ban DHMO.

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

the background check thing is a case in point. After defeating the bills in two election cycles, they got around us by using the ballot initiative. Wildly inaccurate (aka LYING) commercials convinced the 5 counties in the Sea-Tac corridor to pass it, and their population outweighed the entire rest of the state.

THat law is absolute crap. It cannot be enforced as written, the state is not providing guidance to LEO, various state LE agencies have stated they will not enforce it, absent further guidance, and it is being challenged in court.

The only good thing about 594 is that it's so ridiculous that it's not being enforced. As far as I know, nobody has been arrested for holding someone else's gun, even though the law makes that illegal in most cases.

But the sad thing is that a huge number of WA gun owners are breaking the law on a regular basis considering there's no distinction between "Hold this gun while I pee" and "Here's a gun to keep for life". And eventually either the law will be changed or it will start to be fully enforced, and then we'll be risking jail time just by participating in social shooting activities.

[Tom Servo]

The only good thing about 594 is that it's so ridiculous that it's not being enforced.

That's also the worst thing about it: it provides the illusion of safety. People get accustomed to the lack of enforcement and forget the law is on the books.

What happens when I get a sheriff who decides to enforce it? "Hold my rifle while I tie my shoes" becomes a felony conviction for me and the person to whom I hand the gun.

[44 AMP]

becomes a felony conviction for me and the person to whom I hand the gun.

and another set of charges when he hands it BACK!!

[rickyrick]

It's all sounding pretty silly. But I think a poor chap could still get into serious trouble.

I'm not sure that I594 was widely publicised enough. Some unwitting good person could get into trouble just by ignorance of the law. I'm aware of it because it was something that interested me.
Many gun owners don't pay attention to these political maneuvers or understand some of the implications.

[leadcounsel]

Politics in Washington state are pretty simple. Seattle, Olympia, and Bellingham are liberal cities and their votes outnumber the remainder of the state. So these urban enclaves of students and yuppies run roughshod over the more rural, agricultural, small town conservative population. The usual Gerrymandered districts, voter fraud, and a liberal press keep the situation stable.

Last year's public vote on background checks for private sales is an example. The Legislature turned it down two years running, so the Initiative process was used to get the liberal vote out, and Seattle rammed it down the states' throat.

I've lived in a bunch of states, and WA is the easiest place to vote. They send a ballot and envelope. Just mark it and send it back with a stamp or drop it at a number of ballot drop boxes.

Yet WA had only 38% voter turnout in 2014 and got I594 rammed down our throat, AND I BLAME THE RURAL FOLKS THAT DIDN'T VOTE AS MUCH AS THE LIBERALS THAT PASSED IT. I was furious at the rural counties that had 20% turnout, 30% turnout, 40% turnout. Tens of thousands or more people, presumably pro gun, didn't even bother to vote. Rural areas had abysmal turnout.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/op...ears.html?_r=0

So, we can have a defeatist attitude about "King county this," or "Olympia that..." but if folks can't even spend 10 minutes and a .40 cent stamp to have a voice, it's simply pathetic.

Pro-gun people MUST VOTE!!! It's that simple. We can complain, debate, argue, spend millions fighting lawsuits... but in reality if we would just VOTE most of this could be prevented. WA could be a conservative pro-gun state if the conservative gun owners would simply VOTE!!!!!!!

[Tom Servo]

Guys, let's drop the liberal/conservative comparisons. There are liberals who oppose gun control and conservatives who support it. Those labels are arbitrary and inaccurate.

[rickyrick]

Well looks like some of it has passed,but will most likely be challenged in court.

http://mynorthwest.com/11/2793625/Se...ax-regulations

[rickyrick]

Looks like the NRA is suing Seattle because the tax violates state law.

http://www.kptv.com/story/29874826/n...ver-25-gun-tax

[leadcounsel]

The news only got it partially right.

I'm a member of the Second Amendment Foundation, which does a lot to fight for the 2A. I recommend membership to everyone interested in gun rights. It's only $15 annually. Worth every penny. They sue and win often against anti-gunners nationwide. WWW.SAF.ORG

I've interviewed Alan Gottlieb, the founder. He is a great leader for the 2A.

http://www.saf.org/?p=7320

BELLEVUE, WA – The nation’s three leading firearms organizations joined forces today to sue the City of Seattle over adoption of a retail sales tax on guns and ammunition in what they allege is a clear violation of Washington State’s 33-year-old state preemption law that does not allow cities, counties or political subdivisions to enact laws relating to firearms not authorized by state law.

The Second Amendment Foundation, National Rifle Association and National Shooting Sports Foundation, joined by two of the city’s firearms retailers – Outdoor Emporium and Precise Shooter LLC – and two private citizens, filed their lawsuit in King County Superior Court. Named as defendants are Mayor Ed Murray, the city’s Department of Finance and Administrative Services, and that department’s director, Glen Lee.

“We’ve been down this path before with Seattle when we sued them and won, knocking out their attempt to ban guns in city park facilities,” said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan Gottlieb. “The city does not seem to understand that no matter how they wrap this package, it’s still a gun control law and it violates Washington’s long-standing preemption statute.”

[steve4102]

Seattle has obtained some free Legal help to defeat this lawsuit.

It appears to me that the NRA, SAF and company are in for an expensive battle.

Might be time to pony up some $$ again, ahy.

http://www.examiner.com/article/seat...nst-preemption