Variations in .410 Shot Shells

robhic · August 10, 2020, 03:22 PM

Actually this is more about my Taurus 'The Judge' than anything. I thought I'd try the shotgun forum to see if anyone can help.

As you may know, the Judge can shoot .45 Long Colt and .410 shotshells. My .45 cartridges work fine as do the specialty SD loads like the PDX1, etc. But the .410 is problematic.

Since the specialty cartridges fit you'd expect the .410 shells to fit. Not so. They look alike but the .410 stop with about 1/3 sticking out. These are 2.5" shells (that's what is supposed to work) but they stop at a raised lip (I was told it was to prevent .454 cartridges from being used) at the end of each cylinder hole.

So I can shoot SD shotshell-looking cartridges and .45 Long Colt cartridges fine but regular old shotshell will not go in all the way. I measured some older shells and some newer shells (a suggestion to see if different) but they're the same.

Any ideas about this? In these uncertain times I thought some shotgun loads might be handy to have on hand. But mine don't fit! Thanks for any ideas. I'd like not having to send it back to Taurus....

**44 AMP** · August 10, 2020, 04:06 PM

This is interesting. I don't have a Judge, but I do have .45 Colts and .45 a Colt/.410 Contender.

Clearly, if ,410 shotshells don't chamber, you can't use them. I just pulled the .45 Colt cylinder from one of my Rugers, it has the "step" at the front of the chamber, and .410 shells DO stop on it.

You should contact Taurus and see if #1, your exact model gun is suppose to to chamber .410s and what they will do about fixing it, since it doesn't.

#2, contact local gunsmith(s) to see what it would take for them to hone out the cylinder to take .410s, if Taurus doesn't do the right thing, or you don't want to put up with the wait.

(if Taurus will fix it but charge you for the shipping a local smith might be a cheaper and perhaps faster answer)

robhic · August 11, 2020, 05:50 PM

I have to admit this is perplexing. The SD ammo is made like a shotgun shell. Why do they fit but a standard shotshell not go in completely? Taurus said to send it in and they'd look at it.

I gotta give it to them they are good about their warranty. I sent a 5-shot snubnose in because I had taken it apart (a BIG no-no) and lost a couple of parts.

It was definitely my fault but they sent me a return label for $35!!! I sent it in, instead of fixing it they REPLACED IT with a brand new gun. Not a bad deal. I got a brand new snubbie for $35. I'm not sure what they could do here, but I will check with them again. If I could even find a competent gunsmith around here I doubt he would cost less than $35 bucks.

I was just checking to see if anyone had experienced inconsistent shotshell sizing. I'll leave this here for a while and then get back with Taurus if I don't get more info. Hey, maybe they'll send me a new Judge!!!

stuckinthe60s · August 12, 2020, 04:18 PM

I have never had an issue loading any brand 410 in any judge ive ever shot.
who knows. maybe your cyl ISNT what it claims to be?
I will say this...if you load the 410's a lot....they do stretch. how many reloads (if any) do the 410's have or are they factory new?

robhic · August 12, 2020, 04:59 PM

Quote:

I will say this...if you load the 410's a lot...they do stretch. how many reloads (if any) do the 410's have or are they factory new?

I don't reload shot shells and haven't used any, either. The ones I have are Remington and another (like the 'Estate' brand). Interesting about the stretching but these shells are all new. I'm still puzzling over the SD loads (look like shot shells) going right in. 'Regular' .410 2.5" shells stop about 1/2 way in.

stuckinthe60s · August 13, 2020, 06:10 AM

make sure its the right cal/bore. odd as it may seem, it could be marked wrong.

robhic · August 13, 2020, 10:04 AM

Quote:

make sure its the right cal/bore. odd as it may seem, it could be marked wrong.

As in the shell marked wrong? It fits diameter-wise but length is off. Shell is like other .410's size and length. It just won't fit. The SD ammo (PDX1, etc.) fit and they're in a shotshell-like shell of plastic. They go right in but the .410 seems just too thick by a hair. This is nuts but thanks for your time.

langenc · August 13, 2020, 09:14 PM

Does the chamber need cleaning so the round will chamber??

Bill DeShivs · August 14, 2020, 12:15 AM

Sounds like your gun is chambered for .45 Colt only.

robhic · August 14, 2020, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Does the chamber need cleaning so the round will chamber??

No it's clean. I haven't even shot it in a while but that was .45LC only. The range I use discourages shot shell use because it causes (I forget) problems back in the bullet catchers in the back.

robhic · August 14, 2020, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Sounds like your gun is chambered for .45 Colt only.

Well, not "chambered" so much as "limited to" at this point. I gotta get with Taurus ....

stuckinthe60s · August 14, 2020, 05:57 PM

ive shot the judge for over 5 years and no issues whatsoever.
you got a mystery.

robhic · August 15, 2020, 04:41 PM

Quote:

ive shot the judge for over 5 years and no issues whatsoever.
you got a mystery.

I need to get back with Taurus and see what they can offer. I hate to send it in but I'm guessing they'll need to take a look at my cylinder. When I get it straightened out I'll report back here.

PatientWolf · August 16, 2020, 10:57 AM

Quote:

No it's clean. I haven't even shot it in a while but that was .45LC only. The range I use discourages shot shell use because it causes (I forget) problems back in the bullet catchers in the back.

Since I don’t know you or your level of experience, I will ask if it’s possible that there is a carbon ring from shooting the short her than .410 that didn’t get fully removed while cleaning.

Is that a possibility?

robhic · August 17, 2020, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Since I don’t know you or your level of experience, I will ask if it’s possible that there is a carbon ring from shooting the short her than .410 that didn’t get fully removed while cleaning.

Is that a possibility?

No, I get what you're saying. The ridges in the front end of my Judge's charge holes are molded into the metal. I once spent a lifetime scrubbing carbon from a 38/357 revolver that someone (I bought it used) had shot a TON of .38 in and it left one hellacious carbon ring! This isn't the case here and I think I'm gonna let Taurus sort it out.

bamaranger · August 18, 2020, 11:27 PM

Yeah, pretty interesting. I wonder if the .410 shotshells that are causing the issue, are out of spec somehow? I'd try some other makes to see if they chamber. If the OP has ONLY tried to chamber Estate and Rem shotshells, perhaps a W-W or a Federal 2.5" WILL chamber.

I'd at least try some before I put the gun in the mail.

stuckinthe60s · August 19, 2020, 07:08 AM

make sure you send a hull with the suspect cyl so they can see it for themselves.

robhic · August 19, 2020, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Yeah, pretty interesting. I wonder if the .410 shotshells that are causing the issue, are out of spec somehow? I'd try some other makes to see if they chamber. If the OP has ONLY tried to chamber Estate and Rem shotshells, perhaps a W-W or a Federal 2.5" WILL chamber.

I just went through what I have on hand:

PDX1 personal defense loads (like shotshells in plastic hull) fit, no problem.

Hornady Critical Defense 'Triple Defense' (lead balls, BBs and something else) fit but need to be pushed to fit completely. Snug.

Winchester, Estate, Remington and Sellier & Bellot shotshells all will not fit at all past halfway.

That's what's so perplexing. Look and made the same but some do and some don't fit.

robhic · August 19, 2020, 11:03 AM

Quote:

make sure you send a hull with the suspect cyl so they can see it for themselves.

I was gonna ask them about that. I doubt they'd allow an un-tampered with live shell. If an empty would work I'll do that. Now I just have to get with Taurus about how to do this.

stuckinthe60s · August 19, 2020, 03:48 PM

of course.......sending an empty was my intention! :>

Bill DeShivs · August 19, 2020, 06:33 PM

No- I meant it sounds like the gun is chambered in .45 Colt only. It's very possible it was made this way.

robhic · August 20, 2020, 04:47 PM

Quote:

No- I meant it sounds like the gun is chambered in .45 Colt only. It's very possible it was made this way.

At this point I'm not gonna say anything's not possible. The 'Judge' was advertised as .45 Long Colt and .410 shotshell compatible. If it's not shotshell compatible I'm going to let the Taurus people figure that one out. I'm really curious how this shakes out. I need to get in touch with Taurus and see how they want this done. I'll reply back here when I get an answer.

stuckinthe60s · August 21, 2020, 03:56 PM

who knows? they may have gotten something wrong somewhere. time to pass it off to the makers and let them scratch their heads! :>
good luck!

PocketCamera · August 22, 2020, 12:02 AM

DONT SEND IT IN to taurus.

What you need to do is take it to an actual GUNSMITH OR you can buy a box of brass .410 shotgun ammunition. they can actually measure the chambers for you.

It sounds as if the cylinder wasnt reamed correctly for the .410 shells. no big issue with that.

Bill DeShivs · August 22, 2020, 02:04 AM

And, why not send it in to Taurus?
They made the gun, and it's their obligation to make it right.
Brass shotgun shells wouldn't make any difference.

August 11, 2020, 05:50 PM	#3
robhic Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2016 Location: Outside of New Orleans, LA. Posts: 313	I have to admit this is perplexing. The SD ammo is made like a shotgun shell. Why do they fit but a standard shotshell not go in completely? Taurus said to send it in and they'd look at it. I gotta give it to them they are good about their warranty. I sent a 5-shot snubnose in because I had taken it apart (a BIG no-no) and lost a couple of parts. It was definitely my fault but they sent me a return label for $35!!! I sent it in, instead of fixing it they REPLACED IT with a brand new gun. Not a bad deal. I got a brand new snubbie for $35. I'm not sure what they could do here, but I will check with them again. If I could even find a competent gunsmith around here I doubt he would cost less than $35 bucks. I was just checking to see if anyone had experienced inconsistent shotshell sizing. I'll leave this here for a while and then get back with Taurus if I don't get more info. Hey, maybe they'll send me a new Judge!!! __________________ - Robert

August 12, 2020, 04:18 PM	#4
stuckinthe60s Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2017 Location: Va., Ct., Mo.. Posts: 877	I have never had an issue loading any brand 410 in any judge ive ever shot. who knows. maybe your cyl ISNT what it claims to be? I will say this...if you load the 410's a lot....they do stretch. how many reloads (if any) do the 410's have or are they factory new? __________________ Retired Military Aviation Former Member Navy Shooting Team Distinguished Pistol Shot,NRA Shotgun/Pistol Instructor NSSA All American, Skeet/Trap Range Owner

August 13, 2020, 06:10 AM	#6
stuckinthe60s Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2017 Location: Va., Ct., Mo.. Posts: 877	make sure its the right cal/bore. odd as it may seem, it could be marked wrong. __________________ Retired Military Aviation Former Member Navy Shooting Team Distinguished Pistol Shot,NRA Shotgun/Pistol Instructor NSSA All American, Skeet/Trap Range Owner

August 14, 2020, 12:15 AM	#9
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,984	Sounds like your gun is chambered for .45 Colt only. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

August 14, 2020, 05:57 PM	#12
stuckinthe60s Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2017 Location: Va., Ct., Mo.. Posts: 877	ive shot the judge for over 5 years and no issues whatsoever. you got a mystery. __________________ Retired Military Aviation Former Member Navy Shooting Team Distinguished Pistol Shot,NRA Shotgun/Pistol Instructor NSSA All American, Skeet/Trap Range Owner

August 10, 2020, 03:22 PM	#1
robhic Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2016 Location: Outside of New Orleans, LA. Posts: 313	Variations in .410 Shot Shells Actually this is more about my Taurus 'The Judge' than anything. I thought I'd try the shotgun forum to see if anyone can help. As you may know, the Judge can shoot .45 Long Colt and .410 shotshells. My .45 cartridges work fine as do the specialty SD loads like the PDX1, etc. But the .410 is problematic. Since the specialty cartridges fit you'd expect the .410 shells to fit. Not so. They look alike but the .410 stop with about 1/3 sticking out. These are 2.5" shells (that's what is supposed to work) but they stop at a raised lip (I was told it was to prevent .454 cartridges from being used) at the end of each cylinder hole. So I can shoot SD shotshell-looking cartridges and .45 Long Colt cartridges fine but regular old shotshell will not go in all the way. I measured some older shells and some newer shells (a suggestion to see if different) but they're the same. Any ideas about this? In these uncertain times I thought some shotgun loads might be handy to have on hand. But mine don't fit! Thanks for any ideas. I'd like not having to send it back to Taurus.... __________________ - Robert

August 10, 2020, 04:06 PM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	This is interesting. I don't have a Judge, but I do have .45 Colts and .45 a Colt/.410 Contender. Clearly, if ,410 shotshells don't chamber, you can't use them. I just pulled the .45 Colt cylinder from one of my Rugers, it has the "step" at the front of the chamber, and .410 shells DO stop on it. You should contact Taurus and see if #1, your exact model gun is suppose to to chamber .410s and what they will do about fixing it, since it doesn't. #2, contact local gunsmith(s) to see what it would take for them to hone out the cylinder to take .410s, if Taurus doesn't do the right thing, or you don't want to put up with the wait. (if Taurus will fix it but charge you for the shipping a local smith might be a cheaper and perhaps faster answer) __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 13, 2020, 09:14 PM	#8
langenc Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2007 Location: Montmorency Co, MI Posts: 1,551	Does the chamber need cleaning so the round will chamber??

August 18, 2020, 11:27 PM	#16
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,308	interesting Yeah, pretty interesting. I wonder if the .410 shotshells that are causing the issue, are out of spec somehow? I'd try some other makes to see if they chamber. If the OP has ONLY tried to chamber Estate and Rem shotshells, perhaps a W-W or a Federal 2.5" WILL chamber. I'd at least try some before I put the gun in the mail.

August 19, 2020, 07:08 AM	#17
stuckinthe60s Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2017 Location: Va., Ct., Mo.. Posts: 877	make sure you send a hull with the suspect cyl so they can see it for themselves. __________________ Retired Military Aviation Former Member Navy Shooting Team Distinguished Pistol Shot,NRA Shotgun/Pistol Instructor NSSA All American, Skeet/Trap Range Owner

August 19, 2020, 03:48 PM	#20
stuckinthe60s Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2017 Location: Va., Ct., Mo.. Posts: 877	of course.......sending an empty was my intention! :> __________________ Retired Military Aviation Former Member Navy Shooting Team Distinguished Pistol Shot,NRA Shotgun/Pistol Instructor NSSA All American, Skeet/Trap Range Owner

August 19, 2020, 06:33 PM	#21
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,984	No- I meant it sounds like the gun is chambered in .45 Colt only. It's very possible it was made this way. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

August 21, 2020, 03:56 PM	#23
stuckinthe60s Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2017 Location: Va., Ct., Mo.. Posts: 877	who knows? they may have gotten something wrong somewhere. time to pass it off to the makers and let them scratch their heads! :> good luck! __________________ Retired Military Aviation Former Member Navy Shooting Team Distinguished Pistol Shot,NRA Shotgun/Pistol Instructor NSSA All American, Skeet/Trap Range Owner

August 22, 2020, 12:02 AM	#24
PocketCamera Junior member Join Date: August 13, 2020 Posts: 85	DONT SEND IT IN to taurus. What you need to do is take it to an actual GUNSMITH OR you can buy a box of brass .410 shotgun ammunition. they can actually measure the chambers for you. It sounds as if the cylinder wasnt reamed correctly for the .410 shells. no big issue with that.

August 22, 2020, 02:04 AM	#25
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,984	And, why not send it in to Taurus? They made the gun, and it's their obligation to make it right. Brass shotgun shells wouldn't make any difference. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com Last edited by Bill DeShivs; August 22, 2020 at 02:09 AM.