Info for Shooting Iron Sights and Scopes at Long Distances?

[Swifty Morgan]

I can zero a scoped rifle and shoot well at 100 yards, and I can hit things like squirrels and rabbits with a .22 at 100 feet or less with iron sights. That's about all I know about rifle marksmanship.

Is there a good book or other source of information for someone who wants to learn more than that? I've seen people making 200-yard shots on rabbits, with little machines that measure the wind. I don't know anything about that. I don't know much about using complicated iron sights to shoot at long distances.

I always think about going west to shoot prairie dogs from far away, but it would be a waste of time if I didn't learn a few things before getting on a plane.

[TXAZ]

Reading the wind is a skill required for a sub-moa shot at anything beyond 100 yards where the wind becomes a significant percentage of the total error. I believe that's a trial and error / experience issue.

I like Applied Ballistics for the Long Range Shooter, but it can get pretty technical, but covers virtually all effects and mechanisms that affect where the final POI is.

I expect you'll get many more suggestions shortly.

[Swifty Morgan]

Thanks. I also see Long Range Shooting Handbook: The Complete Beginner's Guide to Precision Rifle. Looks interesting.

[ThomasT]

The best way to learn to shoot a rifle is to just get out with a bunch of ammo and start shooting at a known distance. Having a spotter with you will help. A good accurate 22 shot at 200 yard targets will teach you about bullet drift and bullet drop.

Even an air rifle shot at 50+ yards will let you watch the pellet in flight if the sun is at your back. Same with standard velocity 22 rounds. You can track those through the air if the conditions are right. Its fun to watch the bullets go down range. Sometimes you can call a hit or miss before the bullet gets to the target.

I am sure there are training books on rifle shooting. I think there are military handbooks that will give you the basics. But someone who knows of a few will be along to list them for you.

Here is this.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=YFb...4dUDCAw&uact=5

And this.

https://www.amazon.com/Long-Range-Sh.../dp/151865472X

[TXAZ]

It was pricey, but the best thing I did was go to a long range shooting class.

They started with factors that affect accuracy and precision, then put you on the short range (with an instructor 1-on-1 at 100 yards) to watch and identify your issues.
Then a recap on reading the wind and factors that make a difference. Then to the range and ..... measurable improvement.

Nothing like having someone tell you second by second why you're shots look like they came from a shotgun instead of a rifle

[Swifty Morgan]

I doubt there are any resources like that anywhere near me, so I think I'm stuck with books and so on.

[Swifty Morgan]

Actually, it looks like there have been a few long-range facilities in Florida. It appears that some are gone, but a place called Altus is still running. It's a 5-hour drive, but it could be worse.

[10-96]

Swifty… if you're the real Swifty Morgan (Support Your Local Gunfighter), I noticed nobody has goven you any suggestions for books as you asked. I'm like you- I'd still rather have a book than a computer or tablet.

If you have an Amazon account, here's some to look at- FM 23-10 U.S. Rifle, Caliber.30, M1903 (Not first pick, but not bad). "Fundamentals of Rifle Marksmanship" by Thomas Dye, "Gun Digest Shooters Guide to Rifle Marksmanship" by Peter Lessler, and "Sight Alignment, Trigger Control & The big Lie" by Jim Owens.

[Swifty Morgan]

Thanks. I'm looking into classes, too.

I'm not really a famous gunfighter. My real name is Jug.

[TXAZ]

Originally Posted by Swifty Morgan

Thanks. I'm looking into classes, too.

I'm not really a famous gunfighter. My real name is Jug.

If you can make a weekend of it, a class even 5 hours will be a blast and you’ll learn what habits are good and which need to change as a good trainer can tell you things about your style no book can.

[44 AMP]

Having been taught to shoot as a boy, by my father, I've not bothered to read books on the subject, so, sorry, can't help you there.

I can, however speak to some general things. There are 2 basic things involved. One is what you do behind the rifle, the other is what the bullet does after it leaves the barrel.

Sight alignment, breath control, trigger squeeze and shooting positions are cover in lots of books, including NRA instruction and military manuals. Some of them are free.

Once the bullet leaves the barrel, there are 2 things involved which you need to take into account before you pull the trigger.

Drop, and drift.

Drop is a constant, one that can be calculated and compensated for. Drift is a variable, dependent on the wind conditions the bullet passes through on its way to the target.

This, you have to estimate, and the better you learn this skill, the more accurate you will be in the field.

Get a reloading manual, even if you don't reload. Get one that has both drop tables and wind drift tables.

This will show you what happens and will cover about anything you're shooting in one source.

You can also learn some of the tech stuff that affects drift (like ballistic coefficient), and why a 10mph cross wind pushes bullet A an inch to the side and bullet B only half that...

Chew through that, and then come ask specific questions, you WILL have them,

We all did, some of us still do!

[ThomasT]

If you look in post #4 in the first link I posted scroll down the page and there are a few military rifle shooting manuals the are PDF files and free to down load.

[Bart B.]

Go to this website

https://home.nra.org/?FindNRANearYou=true

Select Tournament Calendar, then select one you would like to watch and talk with the competitors about. Ask them for guidelines.

Best book for learning what details are in long-range highpower rifle marksmanship is

https://www.amazon.com/Prone-Long-Ra.../dp/0972254439

The author and her husband have won more matches and set more records than any other couple. Her husband helped me become a top ranked long range marksman sometimes shooting better scores than them.

Most important stuff first; you'll need an accurate rifle and ammo to learn proper techniques. MOA biggest test groups at target range. Better accuracy gives better feedback on your marksmanship skills. How close to your call do you want bullets to hit?

Next, a skilled coach to guide you. They'll see what you're doing that causes a bad shot because they know what to look for and explain how to correct it. Most of us are capable of keeping point of aim inside 2/3rds MOA slung up in prone following proper instructions. A few claim they can hold inside 1/3rd MOA.

[44 AMP]

I can zero a scoped rifle and shoot well at 100 yards, and I can hit things like squirrels and rabbits with a .22 at 100 feet or less with iron sights. That's about all I know about rifle marksmanship.

Most important stuff first:

BASIC instruction and practice with what you have.

the correct order is crawl, walk, run...THEN if desired, start learn how to race...

in other words, baby steps first...

[Swifty Morgan]

I don't know if people following this thread have seen my remarks concerning my final decision. I took a two-day course which pretty much eradicated all the "expert" advice I had received in the past. I had never heard of PRS shooting, and I thought there would be a bunch of hunters with random rifles. It was mostly precision bolt guns and MIL-dot scopes. I stood out with an LR-308 and an MOA varmint scope with holdover marks that had zero relationship to MOA.

Managed to hit a 1060-yard target after running out of elevation. My spotter told me to pretty much shoot into a tree above the berm, and it worked.

[Atticus Thraxx]

If you can only own one, FM-23-10.

[Swifty Morgan]

I bought Ryan Cleckner's book. Looks good so far.

[Twohawks11]

Cleckner’s book is very good.
He also has videos on YouTube that are good as well.
Another book I found that I thought was really good fundamentally is
Gun Digest
Shooters Guide to Rifle Marksmanship
By Peter Lessler
I found this really helpful for me.
I was not looking for Precision rifle matches, (although that is extremely interesting to me now) but trying to get better fundamentally, and this book really helped.

[Bart B.]

Probably the best book. I've known and shot with the author and her husband for years.

http://www.champchoice.com/store/mai...ons&item=PLRRS

[jman841]

It's also important to understand your goal. Are you looking to hit fairly large steel targets out at range? Or are you trying to get into long range precision shooting where your goal is tight groups at long distance?

For the former, A good scope can get you there pretty quickly, I really like the ACSS recitals on the Primary Arms scopes. With a decent AR-15 you can hit Silhouette steel targets out to 600 meters without much issue and fairly quickly.

If you want to get into precision shooting, it becomes a whole different ball game and you will most likely need to get into reloading as well as most factory ammo, even match, is not capable of being competitive with the competition shooters.

[Bart B.]

I find it most interesting that the most accurate stuff at any range has one common denominator that's rarely mentioned in what's needed. Bullet diameter must be larger than the barrel's groove diameter.

Accuracy is best defined by where all shots go. About 10% of them are furthest from group center