not gonna reload this!!!

[tdoyka]

this fall i want to purchase a cz527 in 7.62x39. its primary purpose is for when i get old and no longer use my big boomers. but in the meantime, i wanna to shoot it!!!! i'll probably go the way of factory loads. tula and wolf can do 18 - 19cents for a 1000 rounds. this is for 122-124gr hp and fmj and sp. tula has 154gr sp(for hunting deer) for 21 - 25cents a round. they will be steel cased and berdan primed, so reloading it is not an option. i can buy brass, dies and bullets(which i probably will) but i think that this should be factory loads.

i don't plan on any long range shots. it will be 150 yards and less for shooting deer. over 150 yards, i'll just be practin' n whatnot.

what do you think?

[kilotanker22]

Sounds to me like you already understand the limitations and have a reasonable expectation of use. I say do it....

[Hawg]

Gopherit and don't pay attention to the naysayers on steel cased ammo.

[std7mag]

If the funds were available to me, yeah, i'd buy it.
But....
I'm an avid handloader. I don't buy factory ammo for anything i own. Be it 9mm, 223 Rem, or any of my more expensive per round calibers.
But that's just me.

[bamaranger]

I think you'll love it.

Nearly 20 yrs ago now, I bought a Ruger 77 MkII in x39mm. It is an odd model, stainless, slim 20" bbl, and boat paddle stock. It was my first ( and remains only) stainless steel long gun. On to it, I screwed a Leupold 2-7x. My plan was to have bamaboy use it as a deer rifle with its light recoil. I liked the idea that it could shoot affordable ammo too. Things have not quite worked out the way I thought, but it was all for the better.

The boy killed two deer with the x39mm Ruger, , moved to a .243 that belonged to his Grandad, and now likes .308. I started to load for the Ruger bolt x39mm almost immediately, and it has never had a round of steel case through it. I hunt it a great deal, as it is nearly impervious to bad weather, shrugs off rough handling, and is feather light to boot. I've killed a number of deer with it, including the biggest I've ever taken... at 19 steps ....and never shot it at deer past 60 yds or so. I've found the x39mm to have plenty of punch as long as you don't try and stretch the range with it. In the woods, under 100 yds, it kills just fine. I hunt a Mini30 for deer as well, and occasionally even a scout scoped AK, but I've not taken a deer with the AK.

Scope wise, the 2-7x on the bolt rifle is great, but I could get by with a top end, small bell 4x as well. The Mini wears a 1-4x Leupold which is OK too.
Seems silly to mount a honkin' big scope on a tidy rifle.

I zero all 3 rifles "on" at 100, and don't expect to ever shoot past 150 (at game) with them. Been all over the map with projectiles, and am currently shooting reloads using Hornady 123 gr SST's, which I posted a report on a few years back. That ammo, BTW, is available over the counter in a steel case from Hornady and is fairly priced. I've been looking at the Hornady 135 gr (.308 dia) FTX slug too for in reloads with the bolt rifle. But I give up some accuracy with the .308 slugs as opposed to .310, especially in the bolt rifle (Mini30 and AK don't give enough accuracy to detect the difference). The heavier 150 gr slugs are just a bit slow to suit me,but I have fooled with 150 gr (.308 dia) FN .30-30 type slugs in both the Mini and the bolt rifle , both running 1800-1900 fps from the short barrels.

It is not a rompin", stompin', fire breather byt the x39mm does about 75% of what I need a rifle to do. The CZ rifles get good reports and I bet you'll be well satisfied with yours when you get one.

[Mobuck]

"tula has 154gr sp(for hunting deer) "

A much more suitable deer round is the Hornady SST steel cased ammo. WAY BETTER.

[Wyosmith]

I and my wife have both killed deer and antelope with 7.62X39. 10 animals in all.
We have used all factory loads. 122 HPs 123 Soft points and 154 Soft points.

The 122 HPs would be my first choice as urban defense ammo. Total blow-ups with those bullets and fairly poor penetration. She and I both killed deer, but will not use them again. One Mule Deer Buck and one large White Tail doe.

123 Gr Soft Points.
Very good. full penetration, ribs and upper leg bones broken. good size wound channels Exits the size of quarters. We killed 2 white tails and 3 antelope with these.

154 grain soft points. Full penetration with small exits. Exit wounds the size of pennies. I fired them into wet pine and found the noses rivet a bit but they don't expand much at all. Going from 31 caliber to about 34-35 cal. I pulled some bullets from 7.62X54R ammo and they are the same. I expect they may do very well when fired at 2800 FPS, but from the short 16" barrels in our AKs they only go about 2125 FPS and at 75 yards they will not expand much or possibly none at all, judging from what I saw on the 3 deer we killed with them

[Jim Watson]

I know another guy with the Ruger like bamaranger's. That's two hereabouts. He was set on shooting Cheapo Chicom and was getting many misfires.
We put in a 28 lb Wolff, which fired them all, but bolt lift was hard. Maybe a 24 would have been enough.

Maybe Tula will be softer in the OP's CZ.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Sounds like a plan.
Although I remember when a 20 rd box of FMJ 223 sold for 0.99 cents in stores & 7.62 x 39 of the same quality was just few cents more. I'm willing to bet.
By the time this OP gets used to current ammo prices. He'll definitely feel a slight pinch from his money-clip not too far into the future.
"Nothing I know that has a price tag has ever stayed its the current price."
My advise: To beat inflation > buy Battle packs.<

"Nothing goes down in price always increases."

[Scorch]

I built a 1893 Mauser in 7.62X39, and although I have never shot anything except paper with it, it does seem like a capable cartridge for anything up to deer size. I also bought my son an Interarms Mini-Mauser in 7.62X39, and it shoots 3" at 100 yds, good enough for a beginner's deer rifle.

[bamaranger]

Watson's comments cause me to relate the rest of the story on my MkII.

An ad ran locally, a shop had 3 such rifles available. I altered my plans and got up there as soon as possible, that same day, and I believe the first day the ad ran.
There was one rifle left, and I bought it, no haggling and on the spot. As I was filling out the paperwork, another fella walked in and inquired about the Ruger 7.62x39mm rifles, and of course, was advised the last one had just sold.

This was before internet sales, and so all 3 likely sold locally. Somewhere close there is probably another short, pencil barreled, stainless, no sights, boat paddle stock x39mm Ruger MKII , for a total of 3, sold from the same shop locally, and I believe on the same day. Checking them against online prices, they sell for a premium these days. I believe there were a special run for Davidson's, or one of the other big name wholesalers.

For years all I shot was the .308 dia, Sierra SSP 135 gr Pro Hunter bullet, under the erroneous belief that Ruger x39mm barrels were bored .308. I even experimented with Sierra Match King 150's. Accuracy was not bad, running about 1.5 MOA consistently. When Sierra quit making the 135 SSP, and more enlightened myself, I elected to try the Hornady SST made specifically for the x39mm. I also seated the bullet out as far as the magazine would allow, well ahead of the cannelure. The rifle apparently has a very long throat/leade. The results were nothing short of fantastic. Slow, 5 rd groups, allowing the barrel to cool, are phenomenal, oft with 3 touching and the other two falling into sub-MOA.

If the OP's CZ turns out to half the rifle that little Ruger is, he'll be well pleased.

[Mobuck]

I concur with "Wyosmith's" observations re; 154 SP bullets.
The Hornady 123 SST is the best overall results I've found.

[T. O'Heir]

Tula 154 grain SP's run a tick over 2100 FPS. And your rifle may not shoot 'em well.

[ThomasT]

Don't worry. You'll reload.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/762x39.htm

[bamaranger]

I' ve never shot or hunted the steel case 150-154 gr factory loads, but am very suspicious.

Firstly, I can't imagine our new capitalism loving friends in Europe loading a completely different bullet in 7.62x54r, Russsian and in 7.62x39mm Soviet. If that heavy slug started life with the x54r, it's intended to expand around 30/06 range of velocity, 2800 fps or better. I am not surprised that Wyosmith reports what sounds like limited expansion in his use on deer size game. The slug is too stout and the velocities too low as it is likely intended for x54r velocities. If one is set on shooting 150 gr bullets from the x39mm, some experimenting with flat nose or round nose 30-30 type slugs would be a far better idea. The x39 is just a tad behind the 30-30 in velocity, and the blunt slugs are intended to expand at the lower velocities like the x39mm yields. My Mini will shoot them into almost acceptable size, sloppy groups at 100 yds, but I've never got serious about 150 gr slugs in the short Soviet round. Because.......

Secondly, my own experimenting with 150's and reloads, using 20" carbine length barrels and shorter, gives me velocities way under 2000 fps. The only 150 gr load I could put my finger on easliy in my records, w/o getting into the archives , shot from the 18" barreled Mini, yielded 1800 fps. I'm betting 50-60 yds down range where the critters are, that blunt slug is really loafing along.

Finally, I wonder if the quality control of the bi-metal bullets that will pull a magnet, is consistent. Prowling on Youtube videos of bimetals shot into ballistic gel seems to give a wide range of results. I wonder if batch to batch and arsenal to arsenal, the jackets (and the lead core for that matter) are soft enough, across the board to guarantee expansion. There are good, domestic 7.62x39mm loads with cup and core bullets, or the sexy tipped SST, over the counter in most places, that are made here by the big 3 ammo companies, and will perform as intended, consistently.

[tdoyka]

i'll probably go with the 123gr prvi sp(https://www.targetsportsusa.com/prvi...4-p-76588.aspx) for hunting and reloading. i was wondering if that bullet expands?

for reloading its probably going to the 123gr sst or the 125 or 135gr fn gc from
MBW( https://www.montanabulletworks.com/p...r_caliber=3220)

what do you think?

[taylorce1]

what do you think?

I like the idea, I love my wildcat cartridges but finding time to reload has been an issue as my work and daughter's activities have taken over much of my time. So I've grown to appreciate buying factory ammunition as a time saver.

I don't think you'll have any issues finding a hunting round. Your rifle will tell you what it likes. Just try a few and let us know what works best with some fall hunting success pictures

[stagpanther]

I've reloaded over a thousand cartridges of 7.62 x 39--ranging from mild to wild--ballistically the best over-all performance I ever got was a 123 gr sst bullet running at around 2400 +/- 50 fps. Running them faster (I've driven them to 2600 fps) seems to destabilize the bullets when I've tried. Makes pretty big difference in the trajectory/energy decay.

[RC20]

I have shot some of the Russian ammo and it was not Berden primed.

I would not reload steel, but PPU I believe has rounds and its brass.

Stability is all in the twist rate so you have see what it is and whats the good spot.

That said I tried some 125 flat base lead tips in my 7.5 target and I was getting some seriously credible groups in the 3/8 MOA area. Of course you have to flip them out at 2900 or so to do that (but takes a lot less powder)

[armednfree]

I always saw it as a cast bullet rifle.

[stagpanther]

Stability is all in the twist rate so you have see what it is and whats the good spot.

That said I tried some 125 flat base lead tips in my 7.5 target and I was getting some seriously credible groups in the 3/8 MOA area. Of course you have to flip them out at 2900 or so to do that (but takes a lot less powder)

Wow! that's pretty dang impressive, it's basically a lower BC flat-base form factor bullet proposition if you want any kind of range out of it in my experience. I did quite a bit of work with cavity back's 125 MKZ--so far the best bullet in terms of pushing really fast and maintaining acceptable distance performance IMO. The big problem is there's very little capacity to trade off for higher BC design; beyond that when pushing hotter loads my experience is generally it's "one and done" with the brass as far as reloading repeats are concerned. How are you getting 2900 fps? My loads at 2650 fps were pretty marginal in terms of "pushing the boat out."

[RC20]

The speed is what the book says and I do have a 24 inch tube on the 7.5 Target. Its a lot of speed

possible

with that much lighter a bullet.

People have noted that their is zero advantage and maybe some accuracy gain at 100-300 with flat base. I will play with it more. Even the 06 was getting under 5/8 with that bullet.

I had a rebate and decided to see if my brother was right that they could be pretty accurate.

I won't get a chance to try them at 300 meters until this summer (or not up to flat out freezing to do it - the 300 meter range does not have heaters)

The I4350 was leaving smoky cases (pretty cool at 15 or so) I shifted over to H4895 in the same speed area to see if I can get that cleaned up. It might be ok in the summer but colder temps no. H4895 is more temp stable and noted for going low so will see the next range session.

[stagpanther]

Ahhh--is this a bolt action--I assume a longish freebore allowing to seat the bullets well north of COL specs?

[ATCDoktor]

I have 3 bolt guns chambered in 7.62X39 (Savage Scout, CZ and a Ruger American Ranch) and have killed hogs and coyotes with all 3.

Most people would be amazed at the accuracy you can get from a bolt gun chambered in the 7.62X39 with the factory steel cased ammo with gurouos crowding 1.5 MOA (if I do my part) being the norm in all 3 of my rifles so chambered.

That said, I’ve never hunted game with anything other than my handloads in the X39 and the 2 projectiles I’ve used the most have been Nosler 110 and 123 grain Varmageddon bullets.

Stacked on top of a stout charge of AA1680 they are extremely effective on light skinned game.

Pics of the Ruger:



Coyote shot at 80 yards with 110 grain Nosler Varmageddon at 2600 fps:

The good side.


The bad side.


The 7.62X39 ain’t no joke, especially when hadloaded using components to match the game.

[stagpanther]

yes, typically 1680, shooter's world blackout and CFE BLK give me the best results in 7.62 x 39. The other ones you mentioned work well--but I've found being stick powders you can't jam much of it into the case