Ruger M77 Sell it or live with it? - Page 2

FrankenMauser · March 6, 2017, 04:18 PM

Ruger barrels (basic version):

Ruger started making rifle barrels in-house in 1991.
780-prefix 77 Mk IIs are in the transition period where they could have a Ruger barrel or a contract barrel.
All other 77 Mk IIs and Hawkeyes, as far as Ruger has divulged, will have Ruger barrels.

Basic timeline of Ruger 77 barrels:
Douglas from '67-'73
Wilson from '73-'91 (earned a bad reputation for unpredictability, especially when warm)
Ruger hammer-forged from '91-Current
Other contracts filled in where needed, if Wilson or Douglas couldn't meet demand.

AllenJ · March 6, 2017, 04:19 PM

Rifles like that task me, I have to know why it shoots the way it does. I would start with the basics, different scope. If that is not the issue, skim bed the action and see if that's it. From there I would go with different barrel and trigger. If you decide to try and fix it in the end it could cost you more than a new rifle.

jdh · March 6, 2017, 04:56 PM

Have you thought of trading for a .280, 7x57 or a 7-08? All are pretty good hunting calibers and you can keep using your 7mm bullets.

Joe

Ocraknife · March 6, 2017, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Softball size groups are most likely to be ammo, trigger pull or bedding. Or all three. However, it can also be the excessive recoil of the 7mm Mag too. A 150 grain bullet at 3100fps, out of a 8.5 pound rifle(your Ruger weighs about 8.25), has 19.2 ft-lbs. of recoil energy. A 150 grain .30-06 at 2910 fps has 17.6 ft-lbs. out of an 8 pound rifle.
Mind you, if the softball size groups are consistent that's all you need for what you're doing. Just remember that "I want one." is a reason to buy another rifle.
"...how much I should ask..." They run $375 and up to about $600 without sights on Gunbroker. $400 is light, but it'd sell fairly fast at that. But not at this time of year. Wrong time of year to sell a used 7mm Mag. Just before deer season is the time for large calibres.

I've tried about half dozen different factory ammos and that alone cost me quite a bit of money. They all pretty much performed the same. I handloaded several different rounds at the very low end of what was printed in my manuals for a light load and got the same results. Whatever it is, I don't think it's ammo.

Ocraknife · March 6, 2017, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Rifles like that task me, I have to know why it shoots the way it does. I would start with the basics, different scope. If that is not the issue, skim bed the action and see if that's it. From there I would go with different barrel and trigger. If you decide to try and fix it in the end it could cost you more than a new rifle.

I've already had a trigger job done and I don't relish the idea of putting more money into it. Hell, maybe I'll just keep it.

Huffmanite · March 6, 2017, 05:32 PM

You might want to remove the contact/pressure point in the fore end of your Ruger stock's barrel channel and see if that helps. I'm of the opinion removing the pressure point of the stock on the barrel will not hurt the accuracy of a rifle, but probably improve it.

I use an appropriate diameter long socket, wrap it with sandpaper and sand it down till barrel is not touching the wood. I did this to a Ruger 77 tang safety and a Ruger Mark II.....was kinda surprised how much wood I needed to remove to free float the barrel.

Forgot to mention, might want to check how the receiver screws are tightened. They can affect the accuracy on a Ruger.

603Country · March 6, 2017, 09:49 PM

Maybe somebody else mentioned it, but try another scope. Over the past couple of years I had two scopes with what I'll call a 'wandering POI', both on the same rifle, a Ruger Hawkeye in 223. I didn't think it could be the scope, which was new, so I tried a new stock, new trigger, etc. Then when I was whining about my problems, somebody said to swap out the scope. And the scope was the problem. I was getting loose groups of about 1 1/2 inches. Random groups. I ran through a LOT of ammo looking for the magic combination, and all along it wasn't the ammo at all (or the stock).

supercub99 · March 7, 2017, 02:27 AM

Scopes are always high on the list for wandering groups. I have one I put on three different guns to see and it was as suspected....a bit wobbly.

I can also tell you that my 7 mag didn't like the low end loads but thrived at the highest listed. At that time it was H4831 I was using and by todays load data, it was several grains over max. What you need to realize though is that powder has undergone 3 revisions at least since the yellow cardboard can to what we get today, the max has dropped as well. They ran out of the surplus and mortar shells it was used in too. It's now a formulated extreme powder. But I degress, the 7 mm likes em fast, 2900 ft per with a 175 gr. Mag tip.

Guv · March 7, 2017, 01:57 PM

I have an early 1980's M77 6mm (bought new) that was not very consistent in it's grouping. After trying several scopes, different ammo and various handloads floating the barrel and glass bedding the action did the trick. That gun will put 5 Hornady 87gr hp's over IMR4064 in 3/4" at 100yds now. It's a bit on the light side load wise but works well for me.

samsmix · March 9, 2017, 12:18 PM

I would part with it for the aforementioned $400, then rush right out and buy a Ruger American. It isnt as classy, but these babies shoot! I'd drop back to 7-08 so as to use up your reloading components.

Malamute · March 17, 2017, 09:55 PM

Its been mentioned a couple times, but perhaps not the importance. The action screws on the Rugers can be temperamental. Some see no change, BUT, some do. Most people torque the action screws incorrectly. They should be done to spec (and possible in order, I don't recall), not just horsed in and TIGHT!. The middle screw can be the deal breaker. It should be barely snug, just enough to not fall out. In some guns it doesn't help at all, others, they can start shooting well. Look up the torque specs and try it.

Buckeye! · March 28, 2017, 06:55 PM

Document everything you have done & tried .. Call Ruger ... Then I guarantee they will rebarrel it or replace ....that the way they are ..

lefteye · March 28, 2017, 09:15 PM

Have you considered glass bedding the stock under the action, behind the recoil lug and under the chamber, and also free-floating the barrel including complete removal (by sanding) the pressure point on the barrel very close to the front end of the stock? I did these things to the stock of my brand new M77 .243. Win. in 1974 and the results were dramatic. This work changed my rifle from acceptable to super accurate (for a wooden stocked hunting rifle.) I still have the rifle but haven't hunted with it for many years.

RC20 · April 2, 2017, 06:53 PM

First rather than softball, could we use inches for a group?

Shots per group as well?

That said, I had one of the normal Rugers of that era.

I never got it to shoot better than 1.5 inches, but it was an honest 1.5 with my hand-loads or factory ammo (3 shots).

Rather than set up my hand loading operation again just for a few rounds per year, when I used up my reserve I wound up buying factory. Worked fine.

Something is wrong. If it has Iron sights pull the scope and shoot those (mine did). I also had see under rings, I could shoot either way. Never had to use it but for backup and when hunting, all that check rest and good target shooting thing goes away. Get as stable a position as you can, shoot it behind the shoulder if you can and life is down to butchering.

Its a solid gun, honest as the day is long. They don't make them like that no more.

I have accumulated a couple of low cost scopes and keep them, low cost ones, but known to shoot fine. Worst case you swap one out and see.

Money wise its maybe not worth it, but if you have a good trigger into it, I would consider a new barrel for it.

As SuperCut99 said though, its a hot gun and an barrel eating cartridge and it has a limited life. Just a few sight in shots and hunting once a year , 20-30 years

Target shoot, get a Savage so you can put new barrel on it when you shoot it out.

Lots of low cost choices but none are as solid as that M77. As much as I like the Savage, the M77 was/is more solid.

A barrel is going to run $350 or so, some will let you order partial done (threads and pre chamber) and gun smith finish up. Call it another $150.

std7mag · April 2, 2017, 09:09 PM

I would sell it to someone that enjoys a good 7mm.
(Std7mag)
Someone that likes Rugers.
(Std7mag)
Someone that enjoys a good challenge.
(Std7mag)

Heck i might even be interested in buying it.

hdbiker · April 4, 2017, 11:47 AM

I bought a 21 year old Ruger 77MK11 from a gun store that was out of a collection. It looked as new. I'm a long time reloader and no matter what I fed it, the best groups I could get was 2 1/2 inches at 100 yds. off a rest.Tried 5 different bullets and 3 different powders to no avail. Called Ruger and they agreed to take it back for testing. I about 3 weeks I got it back rebarreled. Now it will shoot just over or under an inch all day long No charge to me. How's that for customer Service ????? hdbiker

TUNDRA_AK · April 4, 2017, 08:45 PM

I took a "headache" off a guys hands awhile back. It was a m77 mk11 stainless, synthetic .270 win. I bought it for my wife, practically brand new, for $300. The guy said it wouldn't shoot worth a darn. Useless gun. It must have been his eyes. That rifle shot like a dream and my wife loves shooting it, and..... I kinda hunt with it. Alot lol. Have taken a bull moose, several caribou and a couple black bears with it. Best " headache " I ever had lol.

RC20 · April 5, 2017, 04:37 PM

That's a nice anecdote (and welcome to the group)

The OP has had it rung out pretty seriously.

It does not appear to be him, its the barrel, the scope or the chassis.

As long as the action screws are tight, it should shoot 1.5 inches or a bit less. 1 to 1.5 would be normal for that era.

I didn't care, 1.5 was good, it was consistent and the group pattern was nice triangle.

Not a clue Ruger might take a gun back, worth a call or email.

March 6, 2017, 04:18 PM	#26
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Ruger barrels (basic version): Ruger started making rifle barrels in-house in 1991. 780-prefix 77 Mk IIs are in the transition period where they could have a Ruger barrel or a contract barrel. All other 77 Mk IIs and Hawkeyes, as far as Ruger has divulged, will have Ruger barrels. Basic timeline of Ruger 77 barrels: Douglas from '67-'73 Wilson from '73-'91 (earned a bad reputation for unpredictability, especially when warm) Ruger hammer-forged from '91-Current Other contracts filled in where needed, if Wilson or Douglas couldn't meet demand. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

March 6, 2017, 05:32 PM	#31
Huffmanite Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2006 Location: Northeast of Houston, Tx Posts: 393	You might want to remove the contact/pressure point in the fore end of your Ruger stock's barrel channel and see if that helps. I'm of the opinion removing the pressure point of the stock on the barrel will not hurt the accuracy of a rifle, but probably improve it. I use an appropriate diameter long socket, wrap it with sandpaper and sand it down till barrel is not touching the wood. I did this to a Ruger 77 tang safety and a Ruger Mark II.....was kinda surprised how much wood I needed to remove to free float the barrel. Forgot to mention, might want to check how the receiver screws are tightened. They can affect the accuracy on a Ruger. Last edited by Huffmanite; March 8, 2017 at 10:18 AM.

March 7, 2017, 01:57 PM	#34
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	I have an early 1980's M77 6mm (bought new) that was not very consistent in it's grouping. After trying several scopes, different ammo and various handloads floating the barrel and glass bedding the action did the trick. That gun will put 5 Hornady 87gr hp's over IMR4064 in 3/4" at 100yds now. It's a bit on the light side load wise but works well for me. __________________ Walnut and Gloss Blue, mostly!

March 9, 2017, 12:18 PM	#35
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,273	I would part with it for the aforementioned $400, then rush right out and buy a Ruger American. It isnt as classy, but these babies shoot! I'd drop back to 7-08 so as to use up your reloading components. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

March 17, 2017, 09:55 PM	#36
Malamute Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2004 Location: Rocky Mts Posts: 859	Its been mentioned a couple times, but perhaps not the importance. The action screws on the Rugers can be temperamental. Some see no change, BUT, some do. Most people torque the action screws incorrectly. They should be done to spec (and possible in order, I don't recall), not just horsed in and TIGHT!. The middle screw can be the deal breaker. It should be barely snug, just enough to not fall out. In some guns it doesn't help at all, others, they can start shooting well. Look up the torque specs and try it. __________________ "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

March 6, 2017, 04:19 PM	#27
AllenJ Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,766	Rifles like that task me, I have to know why it shoots the way it does. I would start with the basics, different scope. If that is not the issue, skim bed the action and see if that's it. From there I would go with different barrel and trigger. If you decide to try and fix it in the end it could cost you more than a new rifle.

March 6, 2017, 04:56 PM	#28
jdh Member Join Date: July 4, 2012 Location: Blooming Grove, Tx. Posts: 21	Have you thought of trading for a .280, 7x57 or a 7-08? All are pretty good hunting calibers and you can keep using your 7mm bullets. Joe

March 6, 2017, 09:49 PM	#32
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Maybe somebody else mentioned it, but try another scope. Over the past couple of years I had two scopes with what I'll call a 'wandering POI', both on the same rifle, a Ruger Hawkeye in 223. I didn't think it could be the scope, which was new, so I tried a new stock, new trigger, etc. Then when I was whining about my problems, somebody said to swap out the scope. And the scope was the problem. I was getting loose groups of about 1 1/2 inches. Random groups. I ran through a LOT of ammo looking for the magic combination, and all along it wasn't the ammo at all (or the stock).

March 7, 2017, 02:27 AM	#33
supercub99 Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 146	Scopes are always high on the list for wandering groups. I have one I put on three different guns to see and it was as suspected....a bit wobbly. I can also tell you that my 7 mag didn't like the low end loads but thrived at the highest listed. At that time it was H4831 I was using and by todays load data, it was several grains over max. What you need to realize though is that powder has undergone 3 revisions at least since the yellow cardboard can to what we get today, the max has dropped as well. They ran out of the surplus and mortar shells it was used in too. It's now a formulated extreme powder. But I degress, the 7 mm likes em fast, 2900 ft per with a 175 gr. Mag tip.

March 28, 2017, 06:55 PM	#37
Buckeye! Senior Member Join Date: September 1, 2008 Posts: 849	Document everything you have done & tried .. Call Ruger ... Then I guarantee they will rebarrel it or replace ....that the way they are ..

March 28, 2017, 09:15 PM	#38
lefteye Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Posts: 1,433	Have you considered glass bedding the stock under the action, behind the recoil lug and under the chamber, and also free-floating the barrel including complete removal (by sanding) the pressure point on the barrel very close to the front end of the stock? I did these things to the stock of my brand new M77 .243. Win. in 1974 and the results were dramatic. This work changed my rifle from acceptable to super accurate (for a wooden stocked hunting rifle.) I still have the rifle but haven't hunted with it for many years. __________________ Vietnam Veteran ('69-'70) NRA Life Member RMEF Life Member

April 2, 2017, 06:53 PM	#39
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	First rather than softball, could we use inches for a group? Shots per group as well? That said, I had one of the normal Rugers of that era. I never got it to shoot better than 1.5 inches, but it was an honest 1.5 with my hand-loads or factory ammo (3 shots). Rather than set up my hand loading operation again just for a few rounds per year, when I used up my reserve I wound up buying factory. Worked fine. Something is wrong. If it has Iron sights pull the scope and shoot those (mine did). I also had see under rings, I could shoot either way. Never had to use it but for backup and when hunting, all that check rest and good target shooting thing goes away. Get as stable a position as you can, shoot it behind the shoulder if you can and life is down to butchering. Its a solid gun, honest as the day is long. They don't make them like that no more. I have accumulated a couple of low cost scopes and keep them, low cost ones, but known to shoot fine. Worst case you swap one out and see. Money wise its maybe not worth it, but if you have a good trigger into it, I would consider a new barrel for it. As SuperCut99 said though, its a hot gun and an barrel eating cartridge and it has a limited life. Just a few sight in shots and hunting once a year , 20-30 years Target shoot, get a Savage so you can put new barrel on it when you shoot it out. Lots of low cost choices but none are as solid as that M77. As much as I like the Savage, the M77 was/is more solid. A barrel is going to run $350 or so, some will let you order partial done (threads and pre chamber) and gun smith finish up. Call it another $150.

April 2, 2017, 09:09 PM	#40
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	I would sell it to someone that enjoys a good 7mm. (Std7mag) Someone that likes Rugers. (Std7mag) Someone that enjoys a good challenge. (Std7mag) Heck i might even be interested in buying it.

April 4, 2017, 11:47 AM	#41
hdbiker Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Posts: 297	Ruger I bought a 21 year old Ruger 77MK11 from a gun store that was out of a collection. It looked as new. I'm a long time reloader and no matter what I fed it, the best groups I could get was 2 1/2 inches at 100 yds. off a rest.Tried 5 different bullets and 3 different powders to no avail. Called Ruger and they agreed to take it back for testing. I about 3 weeks I got it back rebarreled. Now it will shoot just over or under an inch all day long No charge to me. How's that for customer Service ????? hdbiker

April 4, 2017, 08:45 PM	#42
TUNDRA_AK Junior Member Join Date: April 2, 2017 Posts: 3	I took a "headache" off a guys hands awhile back. It was a m77 mk11 stainless, synthetic .270 win. I bought it for my wife, practically brand new, for $300. The guy said it wouldn't shoot worth a darn. Useless gun. It must have been his eyes. That rifle shot like a dream and my wife loves shooting it, and..... I kinda hunt with it. Alot lol. Have taken a bull moose, several caribou and a couple black bears with it. Best " headache " I ever had lol.

April 5, 2017, 04:37 PM	#43
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	That's a nice anecdote (and welcome to the group) The OP has had it rung out pretty seriously. It does not appear to be him, its the barrel, the scope or the chassis. As long as the action screws are tight, it should shoot 1.5 inches or a bit less. 1 to 1.5 would be normal for that era. I didn't care, 1.5 was good, it was consistent and the group pattern was nice triangle. Not a clue Ruger might take a gun back, worth a call or email.