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Old February 26, 2019, 12:45 PM   #1
tipoc
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Concealed means concealed

I was out for a walk the other day by some old salt ponds and marshes which have been developed some and have a couple of bridges that are for walking across, as distinct from driving across. It's become a popular place for walking, jogging, etc. A young man was there with his two children in the 5-7 range and they had stopped to look at something in the water below. As he leaned over the bridge his jacket rode up and you could see he was carrying a Glock, about the size of the popular 19, in a kydex holster about the 4 o'clock position, right hip.

I could see this plainly and so did other folks walking by. Two kids who stopped to point and ran off off and a young couple who gave the fella a wide berth.

I thought I'd call out "hey" to get his attention and pat my waist in the area where he carried his piece, which would convey the reminder. But that might call extra attention to him and he was still leaning over away from me. I also didn't want to embarrass him in front of the kids.

I walked towards him thinking I'd quietly and politely mention it. He was busy with the kids and didn't see me leaning on the rail about 6 feet away and looking at him. Then his phone rang and he straightened up, the jacket slid down, and began speaking to someone called "honey". I waited a bit, 30 seconds maybe, then left.

It was his business and he'd tend to it, or not. I also knew nothing about him.

The point here is that if you carry concealed be aware of your piece. If you bend over to tie your shoe, or play with your kids, will it show? Will it matter to you?

When I stood next to him and he was leaning over I was aware of how easy it would be to block his right arm against the railing, stopping him momentarily from reaching for the piece, and use either my knife or take the Glock (though I did not know if it was a retention rig).

Anyway a reminder that concealed carry can involve more than just concealing the gun when you are standing up.

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Old February 26, 2019, 01:04 PM   #2
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1st reply says if a restaurant is posted I will not "concealed is concealed" and give them my money anyway.
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Old February 26, 2019, 01:20 PM   #3
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Personally, I don't care if I see other folks carrying. Sure, concealed means concealed, but crap happens. Do the best you can. But hey, I'm of a Libertarian mindset.

I try hard to not show. However, there have been situations where if had reached for something on a high shelf at a store, I would have showed my EDC. Even when I carry a P32 in my back pocket, if someone were to get really close and stare down my pocket, I'm sure they will be able to see "something".
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Old February 26, 2019, 01:56 PM   #4
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Poor judgement ?? !!!

Quote:
Concealed means concealed
tipoc
Understand that I do not know California law and that is why I ask this question. ..
Assuming that he has a permit to carry, does it allow to open carry? Or is it just you opinion that he is using poor judgement?...

Iowa law allows for open carry and always has. I refer to this action as flashing. That show was not intended to be seen and it happens all the time, as well as printing. ….

Since Iowa passed Shall-Issue, I have only seen three occasions where a fella was totally open carrying. In fact, we have a fella in our town that open carries a SA in western holster, all the time. ….

My opinion is that it is in poor taste in addition to being personally dangerous!!!
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Old February 26, 2019, 02:33 PM   #5
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There is also the possibility that they guy was an off-duty police officer. One can never be sure. My position is to mind my own business.
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Old February 26, 2019, 04:22 PM   #6
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In CA things are different.

In NH, as other places, we've always had constitutional open carry. You see folks at Walmart, the supermarket, generally in public, with a pistol on their hip like the police.. not common but OK and generally accepted and nothing wrong with it.
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Old February 26, 2019, 04:30 PM   #7
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I live in Idaho where nobody really bats an eye. Not many people open carry around town, even I think that's a little odd, but I'm not too worried if I print a little bit or reach up to grab something off a shelf and my gun makes a momentary appearance.
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Old February 26, 2019, 06:14 PM   #8
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No. Carry is carry. How someone else carries is not your business. Exactly what nit you had to pick with this person, I don't get, but your judgmental attitude and your inclination to interfere shows you are clueless. You have no clue that the person was carrying on a permit to conceal or otherwise. Whether the state law requires concealment for concealed carry permittees is immaterial when you don't even know that is the statute under which he was carrying and you have no authority for law enforcement. Your perception about other people's reactions is also flawed, probably distorted by your own screwed up thinking.
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Old February 26, 2019, 07:51 PM   #9
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Thanks. Nothing wrong with my attitude though.

No Ca. law, in general, does not allow for open carry in cities.

I don't know who the fella was or what permits he had or did not have. I don't care and didn't care.

Remember, I said nothing to him. I had no nit to pick. He was inadvertently flashing it crossed my mind to mention it. He was busy and it was his business and I didn't mention it.

He was also unobservant. That's may opinion of course but it's based on factual observation.

Most folks who carry here do so without permits and risk a good deal when they do. Hard to get carry permits here in urban areas.

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Last edited by tipoc; February 26, 2019 at 08:05 PM.
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Old February 26, 2019, 08:19 PM   #10
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I think conceal means covering it not the same as hiding it .

I was in a clothing store and a man removed his coat to try on another because his wife wanted him to the sales person said the person carrying should just never grip the gun with there hand when in the open . this is what her employer said in a meeting .
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Old February 26, 2019, 09:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
There is also the possibility that the guy was an off-duty police officer. One can never be sure. My position is to mind my own business.
Absolutely...and I sure wouldn't have lingered in the area either. Rod
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Old February 26, 2019, 10:50 PM   #12
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Tipoc, I think this is a regional thing. I see you live in Cali, and things are different there. A firearm hanging out like that may as well be a billboard due to local perception, and laws. I live in NC, where open carry is legal and in some more rural areas quite common. Like Riffraff, it's not common in most places but it's generally accepted when seen... well depending on the overall appearance. Someone who is semi clean cut and blends in doesn't look out of place, but someone who slept in the clothes they're wearing OCing a jennings in a nylon holster might get some looks.

At any rate, an anecdote as to how many people actually pay attention to printing or the occasional "slip." I'm law enforcement, and my assignment for the last 6 years has been plain clothes. I CCW 95% of the time, as I believe it is tactically smart. Especially for a plain clothes cop (you're supposed to blend in for a reason). That being said, I carry a CZ P07 OWB. Suffice it to say, I know I print unless I wear a pretty loose fitting shirt. I also have a VERY long torso, so I've given up on finding any shirt with a tail that's long enough for me. So it's very common for me to print or have my shirt hike up. I used to be paranoid about it. Now I've been around long enough to realize 99.9% of joe public never notices. How do I know this? I've been in line in the store trying to buy a pack of cigarettes and the dude in front of me, who I had a conversation with while waiting, was trying to buy $200 gift cards with fraudulent credit cards (I knew what time it was when he was looking for 3 $200 gift cards and had nothing on his person but 3 credit cards he held in his hand). I've caught people shoplifting, selling drugs in the parking lot of a gas station, trying to pass fraudulent checks... you name it over the past 6 years. None of them ever noticed me, knew that I was a cop, or knew that I had a firearm. All from dumb luck, being out and about in hot spots, and being observant. No one pays any attention to printing or the occasional slip. I know from experience.

That being said, I again cede this is a regional thing. There is a difference between the bottom inch of your holster (or the whole darn thing) hanging out in a gun friendly area, and your shirt hiked up displaying your whole firearm in urban Cali, New York city, or downtown Chicago.
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Old February 26, 2019, 11:05 PM   #13
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I try to mind my own business with stuff like this.

I carry...I am sure mine can be seen occasionally...but I really don't care as it is not a big deal around here. And, I am not paranoid of someone trying to take my gun away from me...but that is just me.
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Old February 27, 2019, 09:21 AM   #14
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PS
Unless wearing a bulky jacket, >99% of CCWers 'print' and can be easily spotted by anyone paying attention long enough. Sure standing still in front of a mirror you think you're concealed, but start normal movement and its quickly given away.

Last edited by TBM900; February 27, 2019 at 11:26 AM.
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Old February 27, 2019, 09:47 AM   #15
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Since I started to EDC about a year ago, I have 'noticed' 2 others who very obviously CC..Both at 4 oclock, both OWB..both with just a shirt on and when they bent over, pretty obvious what was there..I kinda thought..'he should do better', but their gig, their issue..doesn't bother or effect me either way.
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Old February 27, 2019, 10:43 AM   #16
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Semi-concealed =dummy asking for trouble?

A key tenant of concealed carry across the country is the bad guy doesn't know whose carrying aka who to shoot first.
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Old February 27, 2019, 01:43 PM   #17
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I know you live over there in the Bay Area where they must have mind control rays or something, and you haven't been wearing your tin-foil hat, but I want to encourage you to snap out of it.

Holstered firearms don't really make children run away, and normal people don't give a wide berth to someone just because they have a holstered handgun. They do probably try to give other people and themselves some space when they're in outdoor places because they enjoy privacy and alone time that's scarce and for many people limited to the time they have alone in their car in traffic. Believe me, I know what it's like. I used to work right there in Menlo Park. When people are stacked up like rats in a cage, their thinking gets screwy.

When you see someone carrying in a holster, you don't have to give them inordinate and weird attention that notices, "...how easy it would be to block his right arm against the railing, stopping him momentarily from reaching for the piece, and use either my knife or take the Glock (though I did not know if it was a retention rig)." Really, you can just carry on without that kind of attention.

Now if you notice some dude with two Hi Points just stuffed in the waistband of his sweats at the appendix under a Laker's jersey... just kidding.

Carry is normal. I know you're in a place where if you gave enough attention to comment about two dudes making out you would be shamed as homophobic. Don't be hoplophobic.
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Old February 27, 2019, 02:25 PM   #18
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I would agree with 5Whiskey that it's a regional issue. I live in North-Central Pennsylvania...relatively rural, and the scales are almost even as far as Left and Right, at least from my practical everyday perception.

I was at the mall one night with my wife and infant daughter, we had just finished dinner and were walking out toward the storefront, when I saw two good ol' redneck boys strutting by, jeans, dark hoodies, muddy cowboy boots. One guy's hoodie was pulled up, bunched up so that his Glock (probably 19) and IWB were proudly displayed and noticeable at a sheer glance.

Thirty seconds prior, I had grabbed my sunglasses and keys off the table, and made sure my clothing was pulled down sufficiently over my left side BEFORE standing up.

I saw this young man, not much older than myself and thought, "Wow", and to be honest, not much else. We're on two different ends of a spectrum. My wife walking along side me didn't even notice. I was carrying the car seat, perhaps she was on her phone or putting a wallet away, etc. For context, open carry is legal but just about no one does it in public in this particular area.

Personally, I would appreciate a *friendly* heads-up from any passerby or fellow carrier, along the lines of "Hey bud watch your shirt there" etc., but I probably would not offer the same courtesy. If I were to explain it in a series of helpful "pro tips" (lol) I'd summarize as such:
-Concealed means concealed.
-An occasional tug downward of a shirt is not so terrible, but don't make it a habit.
-Ask your wife or S/O before-hand to keep in mind what side you carry on, so when you sit down in restaurant booths, etc, you can be a little less paranoid about printing/exposing your sidearm.
-99% of the public will never notice if you put in 5% of the effort.
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Old February 27, 2019, 07:19 PM   #19
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Old February 27, 2019, 11:34 PM   #20
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carry

Carrrying your handgun concealed , well, involves a lot more than simply donning a cover garment and waltzing around in public. Of primary importance is mind set and awareness. I'll not go into that to deeply, I think most of our savvy readers will get the point. Choose to go about armed, and the world and your surroundings just became a more serious place, you have assumed a grave responsibility.

But other elements involve how you move about and position your body and the cover garment you choose and your holster, where you sit or pause in public places, and how close/touchy feely you allow folks to get.
All that spins around your lifestyle and your "body type" for lack of a better phrase.

Finally, concealed means concealed, but not invisible nor undetected. Most folks paying attention to detail can spot "concealed firearms" on a pretty regular basis, I know I can.
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Old February 28, 2019, 04:34 PM   #21
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I live in a free state where we can carry openly or concealed. No big deal here. Most people don't carry openly but you see it often enough that folks don't freak out.
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Old February 28, 2019, 07:01 PM   #22
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Could be a wardrobe malfunction but it might create an awkward situation if you lean over and say "Your glock is hanging out".
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Old February 28, 2019, 08:14 PM   #23
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As dahermit stated it could have been a LEO off duty . When you carry concealed all the time it becomes part of you and I'm sure it wouldn't be so easy to snatch his weapon . The guy who shouldn't carry is the one that is always touching the weapon . No short jackets with long holsters , just keep it covered , use common sense . You still have to be able to get to it if bad things happen .
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Old February 28, 2019, 09:15 PM   #24
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I would bet that this thread could easily go to 100 posts.
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Old February 28, 2019, 11:56 PM   #25
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^^^
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