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Old January 2, 2019, 04:18 PM   #1
Steve in Allentown,
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How to fit a 1911 .45 internal extractor

Quote:
I want and need to learn what I think would be basic in being able to tune an extractor.
This is a common question that everyone has asked at some point in their quest for 1911 knowledge. Nobody is born knowing this stuff. Even the highly esteemed 1911 ‘smiths on this forum had to learn it through diligent study and experience.

The extractor is a deceptively simple, nondescript, unremarkable looking piece of metal that is one of the keys to a proper functioning 1911. It can cause feeding, extraction, or ejection problems if not properly fit.

There are three basic areas that need to be addressed when fitting an extractor:
  • Geometry
  • Deflection
  • Tension
Geometry refers to the various bevels on or about the hook, distance from the inside edge of the hook to the breech face, depth of hook engagement, interference of the hook with the case or barrel, rotation of the extractor in the extractor tunnel (clocking), and probably a couple of other things I can't think of right now.

Deflection is simply how much the extractor moves laterally when a case slides up under it.

Tension is how much pressure is applied to the case rim by the extractor's tensioning wall.

Within reason, the more tension applied against the case rim the more consistent the ejection will be.

There is a simple extractor diagnostic test I learned while taking a class with Hilton Yam. I call it the Hilton Yam Ultimate Extractor Test although he doesn't have such a grandiose name for it.

Step 1 - fill a magazine with cartridges
Step 2 - insert the magazine into the pistol
Step 3 - load a round into the chamber
Step 4 - remove the magazine from the pistol
Step 5 - fire the loaded round while observing the case as it ejects

Repeat Steps 1 through 5 until all the cartridges in the magazine are expended.

If any of the ejected cases drop through the magazine well, this is proof that the extractor needs serious attention. If any of the ejected cases fly off in different directions, the extractor needs less serious attention. Either way the extractor needs attention.

What this test does is eliminate the magazine as a factor influencing ejection. Often times a less than optimally fit extractor will lose control of a fired case and it's the sudden upward movement of the magazine follower that pushes the fired case out of the ejection port instead of the ejector.

Here's a link to Hilton's test with more detail: http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=131
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Old January 2, 2019, 04:25 PM   #2
Steve in Allentown,
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More extractor goodness

Feeding

To allow the case to slide freely up under the extractor, areas "D", "G", and "F" in the picture below must be gently rounded. Just a little bit of rounding should work. If area "D" extends too far up the tensioning wall "C" the case rim may not be in solid contact with the extractor as it moves down the tensioning wall during cycling.

The whole idea with rounding these areas is to allow the case to move into position without encountering a sharp corner that could dig into it and prevent it from sliding into place.

A side benefit of rounding area "F" is that it allows the empty case to more easily rotate up as it encounters the extractor thus insuring ejection.



In the next picture you can see that the edge of the claw "B" does not touch the case anywhere. This is a perfectly fit extractor. Remove only enough material from "B" to just clear the case. Take off too much and you'll have extraction problems. If a case can be pushed back flush against the breech face, that means the nose of the extractor is not contacting the case bevel and that's a good thing. But that's all it means.

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Old January 2, 2019, 04:32 PM   #3
Steve in Allentown,
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More extractor goodness (continued)

Extraction/Ejection

If you can get the extractor beveled and fit as described above, you should be in good shape in terms of extraction/ejection.

The firing pin stop should not allow the extractor to move fore and aft or to rotate. An extractor that can rotate within its slide tunnel is known as a “clocking” extractor. A clocking extractor is not your friend as it can allow the extractor to lose control of the case as it moves down the face of the extractor’s tensioning wall as the barrel drops out of lock up.

So, these are the basics. There are other nuances and everyone seems to have their own favorite methods but if you can get the basics figured out, you should be able to solve your problem.






Quote:
The OEM extractor below looks like it has been well worked over from the factory. Shows a fair amount of polished angles.


Well, it may be polished but I don't see a correct radius on the lower edge of the tensioning wall nor do I see what I would consider to be a correct radius on the bottom edge of the hook. Honestly, it looks like a half-assed effort. I magnified the image as much as possible and the radius on the bottom of the tensioning wall looks like it extends way too far up the side. This could be the root cause of the pistol's problem. Once the contact point with the case rim goes below the brass smear I see, the amount of force exerted on the case rim by the extractor drops significantly. Not good.

By the way, don't use a Dremel on an extractor and you don't necessarily need to mirror polish anything on an extractor. The actual inside edge of the claw that grabs the case rim to pull the case out of the chamber should not be rounded at all.

The bottom radius sure looks excessive to me.

During the functioning of the pistol the barrel moves up and down.

As the slide moves rearward under recoil and the barrel links down, the rim of the case moves down the tensioning wall.

There is only a single point on the rim that is in contact with the tensioning wall at any time. It's been a long time since high school geometry but I believe this contact point is called the tangent.

If the bottom radius is cut too high, this tangent point is lost. There is no longer solid contact between the case rim and the extractor. That's when bad things happen like the extractor losing control of the now empty case.

One more thing I noticed about that extractor. The radius on the bottom of the claw is actually supposed to be a compound curve i.e. it curves vertically and horizontally as shown in the drawing at area "F". Your OEM extractor looks like this area only curves vertically. The horizontal curve allows the empty case to more easily rotate up when it contacts the extractor thus enhancing the ejection process.

Quote:
Here's a brand new, unmodified Wilson extractor below.


Now that's a good looking extractor.

First, fit the firing pin stop to the extractor. Modify the firing pin stop not the slide. If need be, you can modify the extractor a little to help fit the slide stop. If the slide stop is wider than its mating groove in the extractor, remove metal from the forward edge of the extractor groove not the rear edge. This will move the extractor claw closer to the breech face which is almost always a good thing.

Next, check that it's applying necessary pressure against the case rim. If it won't hold a loaded cartridge as you gently shake the slide then you'll have to bend it a little until it will. Then go shoot the pistol. If there are no issues during the shooting, you're finished.

I don't remember if anyone described the "shake test" in a previous post. It's basically this. Remove the slide, slide a loaded round under the extractor, gently shake the slide. If the round stays put, you're good. If you give the slide a good, solid shake, the round should fall out.

While you're in the process of checking the tension observe whether or not the case rim is actually contacting the tensioning wall. Sometimes on some pistols and with some extractors you'll have to slowly file the locating pad down until the tensioning wall contacts the case rim. [bold]Remember what I said about deflection if you have to file on the locating pad.[/bold]

If it were mine, I'd gently radius the bottom edge of the claw as in "F" in the previous drawing and I'd carefully break the edges of the bevel at the bottom of the tensioning wall. Breaking the edges means a minimum radius rounding. If I were you, I'd use a small piece of 500 grit sandpaper wrapped around something flat like a wooden popsicle stick to get after these edges.

The inside edge of it should be sharp to enable a better grip on the case rim.


Last edited by Steve in Allentown,; January 3, 2019 at 03:19 PM.
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Old January 2, 2019, 04:33 PM   #4
Steve in Allentown,
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Extractor length

Extractor length

Most extractors are too long for most pistols. I wish the various companies would publish the distance from the hook to the rear edge of the firing pin stop slot. The EGW heavy duty is the shortest by far.

The result of a too long extractor can be the nose of the extractor contacting the barrel. This is bad and can eventually break the hook off the extractor.

Another result of a too long extractor can be the claw contacting the case bevel. This can negatively affect feeding as well as extraction.

Another result of a too long extractor can be a less than optimal space between the breech face and the inside edge of the claw. The optimal distance is shown in the illustration below. This distance can be as much as 0.085" but no more.

Since most extractors are too long you can bring the claw closer to the breech face by removing metal from the front edge of the groove into which the firing pin stop fits. The firing pin stop still needs to fit the extractor snugly so you can't remove much from the front edge of the groove but what you can remove may be just enough to eliminate issues on the front end of the extractor.



I've found that measuring the breechface to hook dimension is most easily accomplished by using two pin gages that act as go / no go gages. You can see in the picture the 0.075" minimum and 0.085" maximum pin gages. If the 0.075" will fit between the extractor claw and the breech face and if the 0.085" won't fit, I'm happy.

The reason the pins are black on one end is because I put them in a vise, heated the ends with a butane torch, and then bent the ends 90 degrees. This makes it easier to do the measuring. You can find these pin gages at MSC .

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Old January 2, 2019, 04:39 PM   #5
Steve in Allentown,
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It's all about deflection

Quote:
When running the RIA through the <10-8> test, it failed routinely, stove piping, dropping rounds through the magwell etc . . . The gun has had a few malfunctions while fully loaded as well, usually the last round is left loose in the chamber . . . The extractor itself passes all tests of tension with the Weigand extractor tension gauge and holds a loaded round against the breechface.
The results of this test indicate your extractor needs attention. Personally, I would throw the RIA OEM extractor in the trash and fit a new EGW or Wilson.

Below is what a perfectly fit extractor looks like at the business end. Note that the hook does not touch the case anywhere.



Here’s a simple way to check and set extractor deflection.

Below are three images showing what happens to the extractor as a cartridge slides up the breech face during the feeding cycle. The perspective is from the muzzle. The dashed vertical line inside the extractor represents the tensioning wall.

The first image shows the case rim before it engages the extractor. More precisely, the rim has not contacted the tensioning wall yet. Here the extractor's locating pad is in contact with the inside left of the slide tunnel (not shown).



The second image shows that when the rim contacts the tensioning wall the extractor is pushed away from the pistol's centerline.



The last image shows the case rim fully engaged with the tensioning wall. It is at this point that extractor deflection is at its maximum.



Deflection, also referred to as cam out, is very important. A minimal amount of deflection will allow good functioning with more tension than what is generally considered prudent. But an extractor with lots of deflection can cause malfunctions even if the extractor has very little tension.

So that's the theory. How do you set extractor deflection without taking all those measurements and doing the math like I posted previously? Simple. Make a gauge and slide it between the left guide block and the installed extractor. The tensioning wall should touch the gauge. If it doesn't, remove metal from the locating pad until it does. That's it.

I make my gauges from a piece of flat stock steel from MSC Direct https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/06104053. Here's a picture of one:



More theory. How much deflection is needed? I think Jerry Keefer said he runs somewhere around 0.006" of deflection. I try to hit 0.010". The confounding factor is case rim diameter. SAMMI spec is .480" but I don't think I've ever seen rims that wide in real life. A sampling of the brass I have on hand shows most diameters right around 0.475" or a tad bigger. Because of this I prefer my .466" gauge. You can see in the table below that my .466" gauge gives .010" deflection with .476" rims, a tiny bit less for .475" rims, and a tiny bit more for .477" rims.

So, if you discover that most of your rims are .480", you can use a .470" gauge to achieve perfect 0.010" deflection and that should work with rims a little bit bigger and a little bit smaller. Note that if your gauge is .470" and your rims are .470", the extractor will have zero deflection.

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Old January 2, 2019, 04:40 PM   #6
Steve in Allentown,
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It's all about deflection continued

All of this talk about specific deflection amounts is open for debate. I imagine the real 1911 'smiths here have their own preferred measurements based on their experience. All of the preceding is based on my own experience and experimentation. Experimentation means George at EGW will be able to retire early thanks to all the extractors I've bought from him as I screwed up one after another in my quest for extractor perfection.

Here's a simple animation of the case sliding up the breech face and pushing the extractor aside.

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Old January 2, 2019, 04:41 PM   #7
Steve in Allentown,
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Extractors and Ejectors in shorter than 5" 1911s

One last post in this series.

The extractor and ejector work together to get the empty cases out of the pistol. In shorter than 5" 1911s the ejector becomes even more critical to this operation.

Rob Schauland (Alchemy Custom) who is now the head guy at Cabot responded to a discussion about problems one fellow was having with a stubby 1911.

Quote:
It's a short gun. That's how they eject. Very few people know how to actually fix it, and extractor profile or tension will do very little to help. Working on the extractor ain't nothin' but gun forum fairy dust and unicorns.

The length of the ejector is the answer.

If your ejector is the proper length, you can get away with a whole plethora of extractor tensions, shapes, and surface abnormalities.

On a Commander, if a customer wants it to eject consistently, we start with the EGW long ejector. We cut it until we get the gun to eject 3 o'clock, and then tune slightly to bring it back to 4 o'clock. Of course, your ejection port needs to be opened to the max. Most are these days.

As long as the extractor allows the gun to feed and pulls the spent case out of the chamber, that long ejector will see to it that the brass goes where you want it. Just make sure you clearance the inside bottom corner so that the top round isn't affected by it.

It's definitely all about tuning the ejector length and profile to the gun, ammo, recoil spring and shooter. Some people have an extremely firm hand hold. They allow the slide to cycle all the way to the rear. Others soak up the inertia, and the slide doesn't travel as far rearward. You have to give the shorter guns resistance to cycle against...(gun poem).
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Old January 2, 2019, 04:43 PM   #8
Steve in Allentown,
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Ejectors

I thought I'd add my two cents to Rob's quote in the previous post.

I prefer to make my own ejectors from an EGW block. HD XXL Gunsmith Fit Ejector Block Blue: EGW Gun Parts

This allows me to make the nose as long as possible and also allows for a very close fit of the ejector to the slide for cosmetic as well as funtional purposes.

Below is a picture comparing a Colt factory extractor that I took out of a Colt CCO to one I whittled out of an EGW block to the remaining two extractors yet to be whittled out of that block. The one I made has yet to be fit to the pistol and it's obvious that the nose is far too long.




The next picture shows an interim step in fitting the ejector. I slip a factory hardball round under the extractor of the disassembled pistol then reassemble it without the recoil spring or recoil spring plug. Then with the round fully chambered I slowly pull the slide back to see if the ejector allows the nose of the round clears the ejection port. As you can see, it didn't even clear the barrel hood. This was early in the fitting process. After much trial and error I got the ejector nose just short enough to allow for live round ejection.




The next pisture shows the final length that allowed for live round ejection. Note that perfectly square and flat nose. At this point the nose hasn't been angled in any way. Live fire testing may indicate the need to angle it.




The next picture is a look inside the dusty pistol showing that the ejector is taking up its entire slide opening. This is a good thing since some ejection problems can be traced to an ejector that is not making solid contact with the case rim at the top of the ejector. After cleaning the pistol thoroughly I took it to the range for testing and discovered that I didn't need to tweak the shape or length of the new ejector at all. Sometimes you get lucky. Ejection was perfect and consistent. The extractor deserves a lot of credit for this as well. Remember, the extractor and ejector work together to get the empty cases out of the pistol.




Finally, here's a picture of the back end of the pistol after I blended the ejector to the slide. Even with my caveman manual tools and technique I was able to achieve a pretty good fit of the ejector to the slide.

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Old January 2, 2019, 04:59 PM   #9
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I'm Making a Sticky request

Excellent,Thank you.

I'd like this saved as a sticky.

Last edited by HiBC; January 2, 2019 at 06:27 PM.
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Old January 2, 2019, 07:40 PM   #10
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Rather fortuitous timing for me (unless this was motivated by my thread). If I have time I'll try to give this its due, thanks!

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Old January 2, 2019, 07:45 PM   #11
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WOW! 8 posts in 8 years and it is a great one. I second the sticky request. You must be a man of few words, but when you talk I will listen. Thanks for the info.
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Old January 2, 2019, 08:17 PM   #12
polyphemus
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Quote:
There is a simple extractor diagnostic test I learned while taking a class with Hilton Yam. I call it the Hilton Yam Ultimate Extractor Test although he doesn't have such a grandiose name for it.

Step 1 - fill a magazine with cartridges
Step 2 - insert the magazine into the pistol
Step 3 - load a round into the chamber
Step 4 - remove the magazine from the pistol
Step 5 - fire the loaded round while observing the case as it ejects

Repeat Steps 1 through 5 until all the cartridges in the magazine are expended.

If any of the ejected cases drop through the magazine well, this is proof that the extractor needs serious attention. If any of the ejected cases fly off in different directions, the extractor needs less serious attention. Either way the extractor needs attention.

What this test does is eliminate the magazine as a factor influencing ejection. Often times a less than optimally fit extractor will lose control of a fired case and it's the sudden upward movement of the magazine follower that pushes the fired case out of the ejection port instead of the ejector.
This proves absolutely nothing
The ejection cycle by design was meant to have case support,ejectors work on that premise.Running a firing sequence out of specification is guess work,about the only result that can be drawn from it is that the pistol worked even though a part was missing.
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Old January 2, 2019, 09:00 PM   #13
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Thanks for all the great info.
I was about to buy and (try to) fit a Wilson extractor in my 9mm 1911.
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Old January 2, 2019, 09:48 PM   #14
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All-in-all, a very comprehensive overview. Unfortunately, I have to take issue with one point:

In post #2, the excellent drawing you borrowed from my friend, Niemi24s (whom I won't name unless he asks me to) correctly shows radiused transitions at points D and F. This is exactly as called for in the original Ordnance Department drawings.

In the top photo of post #3, you (or whoever created that illustration) wrote: "The underside of the extrator hook needs to be gently beveled ..." The last two photos in post #3 also show and call for bevels. This is incorrect. What is called for, and what is needed, is a proper radius.

Further, the tip of the extractor is also supposed to be radiused. Most manufacturers today (Cylinder & Slide's "Ultimate 1911 Extractor" being the exception, along with Colt) use a bevel here, too, rather than do it right.


(Image used by permission of M1911.org)

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Old January 2, 2019, 10:11 PM   #15
Steve in Allentown,
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Quote:
This proves absolutely nothing
I respectfully disagree.

What the test shows is whether or not the extractor is holding the empty case in such a way that it will contact the ejector. If the extractor loses control of the empty case even with a loaded magazine in place, the case may very well not be ejected properly. Sometimes the result can be the empty case floating in the ejection port. As the slide comes forward it begins to strip the next round out of the magazine while simultaneously pushing the empty case straight into the barrel hood. What you end up with is an empty case with a mangled mouth and a live round underneath it that hasn't been chambered.

What can also happen with an improperly fit extractor is that the case can slip down the tensioning wall and be dragged into the feedlips of an empty magazine thus deforming the feedlips and locking up the pistol.

The idea is that the extractor must hold onto the empty case well enough that the case doesn't get loose from the extractor until it smacks the ejector. The most expedient way to determine this is to run the test I described.

If the extractor passes this test, its functioning in a fully loaded pistol will be flawless. Over the years I have experienced every extractor related malfunction there is and this test has proven itself invaluable in avoiding them ever since.

I highly recommend it to anyone who is trying to diagnose functional problems.
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Old January 2, 2019, 10:40 PM   #16
Steve in Allentown,
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Quote:
In post #2, the excellent drawing you borrowed from my friend, Niemi24s
I have studied his most excellent drawings. They are invaluable to understanding the 1911. You'll note that I cite him by name in both drawings. He deserves to be recognized for his excellent work.

Quote:
In the top photo of post #3, you (or whoever created that illustration) wrote: "The underside of the extrator hook needs to be gently beveled ..." The last two photos in post #3 also show and call for bevels. This is incorrect. What is called for, and what is needed, is a proper radius.
Yup, those are mine. Sorry for using the wrong terminology. I stand corrected.

Quote:
Further, the tip of the extractor is also supposed to be radiused. Most manufacturers today (Cylinder & Slide's "Ultimate 1911 Extractor" being the exception, along with Colt) use a bevel here, too, rather than do it right.
When you say "do it right" I assume you mean ordnace specs are the right way. There are some who might take issue with that and would insist that in certain specific instances, such as the nose of the extractor, the original ordnance specs could be improved upon.

The idea with the nose of the extractor is to shape it in such a way that if a cartridge is fed ahead of the extractor, the extractor will snap over the rim of the chambered cartridge and the pistol will continue to function. I know some very highly respected 1911 'smiths who purposely shape the nose as a flat bevel with no ill effects and perfect functioning so perhaps there's more than one way to skin this species of cat.

I have no preference on the exact shape of the extractor nose and have examples of both in various 1911s all of which run fine. I will say that there should not be any hard angles on an extractor that the case rim can hang on. If there is a bevel at the bottom of the tensioning wall it should be radiused at its transition point with the tensioning wall.
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Old January 3, 2019, 12:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Often times a less than optimally fit extractor will lose control of a fired case and it's the sudden upward movement of the magazine follower that pushes the fired case out of the ejection port instead of the ejector.

What "sudden upward movement of the magazine follower" would that be?
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Old January 3, 2019, 01:44 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown
I have studied his most excellent drawings. They are invaluable to understanding the 1911. You'll note that I cite him by name in both drawings. He deserves to be recognized for his excellent work.
Actually, since you have mentioned it, I note that you (or someone) appears to have edited his M1911.org screen name onto his drawings, without making clear in any way that this was the source of the drawings. You also have not provided anything to suggest that you requested and received permission from either the drawing author or M1911.org, which is where he published the drawings and where the content of which is copyrighted.

I quite agree that he deserves to be credited for his work. IMHO that should begin with affording him the basic courtesy of asking his permission before using his drawings, and then properly attributing the work to the author. I believe that's what the law, and the rules of this site, requires.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/announcement.php?a=94

Quote:
5. Photographs and other images are also copyrighted. "Hotlinking" of images (so that it appears in your message) from other sites is also prohibited unless you own rights to the image. If you wish to share an image, provide a clickable link to it.
Yes, I also used an image. Mine is from the old U.S. Ordnance Department blueprints for the M1911, so any copyright that might have existed has long since expired. The particular view that I posted was used with permission of M1911.org, which is where it first appeared.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; January 3, 2019 at 03:30 AM.
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Old January 3, 2019, 08:12 AM   #19
Steve in Allentown,
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Quote:
What "sudden upward movement of the magazine follower" would that be?
The follower and any cartridges laying on top of it are forced down by the slide's disconnector rail. As the slide moves rearward there comes a point when the disconnector rail is no longer in contact with the top most cartridge or the follower and there will be a sudden upward motion. If you remove the recoil spring and slowly pull the slide rearward with a dummy loaded magazine, you can observe this motion. You will note that the effect of this is pushing the next round up the breechface thus tapping the extracted round upward.
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Old January 3, 2019, 08:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Actually, since you have mentioned it, I note that you (or someone) appears to have edited his M1911.org screen name onto his drawings, without making clear in any way that this was the source of the drawings.
Yes, I added his screen name to the drawings. If using the words "created by" do not clearly identify him as the author, I look to your guidance for the proper words.
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Old January 3, 2019, 08:32 AM   #21
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Quote:
The idea is that the extractor must hold onto the empty case well enough that the case doesn't get loose from the extractor until it smacks the ejector. The most expedient way to determine this is to run the test I described
The slide should not be slamming on an empty chamber.Deliberately doing this is not "expedient".
Also the gouge in the extraction groove rear face is caused not by an out of tune extractor but an out of specs one,the M1911 pistol functions correctly thank you with parts machined to specs and by rights does not need any tuning or enhancements,the parts may need repairs when out of spec but that is not a design flaw and all this bevelin' and polishin' appears to be an attempt to correct defects in a poor quality part.
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Old January 3, 2019, 08:59 AM   #22
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Quote:
As the slide moves rearward there comes a point when the disconnector rail is no longer in contact with the top most cartridge or the follower and there will be a sudden upward motion.
When you are talking about something that happens in less than a millisecond everything is pretty sudden not just one thing and amazingly all of that is taken into account for the function of the arm.Mr. Yam in his best form could not light a candle to Mr.Browning.
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Old January 3, 2019, 09:30 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown
Yes, I added his screen name to the drawings. If using the words "created by" do not clearly identify him as the author, I look to your guidance for the proper words.
https://yourbusiness.azcentral.com/g...ages-2791.html

https://penandthepad.com/how-8578491...o-credits.html

https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-pho...t-line-1077915

Aside from properly identifying both the photographer/artist and the source, outside of the image itself, it is also mandatory to seek permission before using someone else's work, and to state that it is being used "courtesy of" or "with permission of" the copyright owner.
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Old January 3, 2019, 09:39 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown
When you say "do it right" I assume you mean ordnace specs are the right way. There are some who might take issue with that and would insist that in certain specific instances, such as the nose of the extractor, the original ordnance specs could be improved upon.

The idea with the nose of the extractor is to shape it in such a way that if a cartridge is fed ahead of the extractor, the extractor will snap over the rim of the chambered cartridge and the pistol will continue to function. I know some very highly respected 1911 'smiths who purposely shape the nose as a flat bevel with no ill effects and perfect functioning so perhaps there's more than one way to skin this species of cat.
I consider Bill Laughridge, the owner of Cylinder and Slide, to be knowledgeable and respected regarding the M1911 pistol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Laughridge
About 6 years ago I began to notice that the extractors that are being used in all of the name brand 1911 pistols and the extractors that we were using would begin to lose their tension at around 1000 rounds and that by 3000 to 4000 rounds many of them had lost enough tension that they would begin to cause failures to extract or failures to eject because they were losing their grip on the case before it could be fully ejected.

Being a dinosaur in the 1911 business I knew that the Colt 45 ACP extractors were good for around 20,000 rounds before they would show wear on the extractor hook but they would still have their tension on the case.

I decided that I wanted to find out why the newer extractors were losing their tension. First I noticed that the nose profile of many of the extractors was incorrect. This was causing undue stress on the extractor if the extractor had to jump the rim of the case on slide close.
...
I have had the fortune to observe the feeding cycle of several 1911 pistols taken with high speed digital movie cameras. The rounds that actually feed out of the magazine don’t feed smoothly up the frame feed ramp and barrel throat. The bullet nose actually hits the feed ramp of the frame, bounces up and strikes the barrel feed throat and then bounces up against the top of the chamber, and then the cartridge chambers as the slide finishes closing. Now there are the rounds that are thrown out of the magazine by the inertia caused by the slide impacting the frame when it stops against the frame. The round is so heavy that the pistol actually moves to the rear so fast that the round stays where it is. This causes the round to be thrown out of the magazine, up the feed surfaces and into the chamber before the slide ever touches it. Now that the round is already chambered the extractor is forced to jump the rim of the case as the slide closes on the round. The extractors that have an incorrect nose shape are slammed back and to the right with extremely violent force.
Source: https://ezine.m1911.org/showthread.p...1911-Extractor
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Old January 3, 2019, 09:41 AM   #25
TunnelRat
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In all my years on this forum, I can't recall a thread that properly followed a style guide. This thread isn't for commercial use and it seems to me the use of these images would fall under fair use.

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