Home defense pump action shotguns OTHER THAN the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 - Page 2

Slopemeno · May 5, 2016, 07:46 PM

I've had Winchester Model 97's, a Remington Model 31, Hi Standard 10-Bs, Ithaca 37's and last but not least a humble Winchester Model 42 single shot .410 in arms reach at one time or another.

EnoughGUN · May 5, 2016, 09:02 PM

Really? No one says KSG? Compact pump with 24 round capacity if you use mini shells and shell select ability.

bn12gg · May 6, 2016, 07:32 PM

Browning BPS 12g works for me. Plug out -- 5 in the tube. Comfortable thru the night.

.02. David.

Brit · May 7, 2016, 01:12 PM

Not sure if I mentioned my cheap, second hand Mossberg pump, an ex Police gun, has a stamp on it.

I paid $87.50 for it, black plastic furniture, and I put a 1" white plastic SECURITY sign, on both sides. Had a touch of rust on it.

A couple of years ago, a Jeweler's, my Son had bought a watch from, the Manager called him up, in a panic "I need an armed guard, tonight" He meant Armed Security Officer, but what the heck.

Using our Shotgun waiver (High risk Patrol?) well close. My Son and I.

Behind the high concrete wall, at the rear of the rear entrance's, and parking lot, was the local hood! A large group of these young male residents had taken to parking at the front entrance parking lot, just prior to the Staff leaving, sitting on their vehicles. Three of this 5 man team were attractive ladies.

Who were being harassed with foul language, etc. The real pretty one, stated no armed person tomorrow (also top seller!) I am gone!

All my Sons armed staff were busy, so he called the retired? Old Guy, me!

Me and my $87.50 pump.

Instructions to the group. Just about to leave, I go out first, you 4 follow me, enter your vehicles, lock doors, start engines. Stay put. Manager to door, lock and set alarm, then head to your car BMW! Start up, lock doors, seat belt, head out. Closest vehicle to his car, follows, till you have cleared the area.

I will leave then. I was armed with a Glock 19, 2 spare magazines. Pump leaned up in the managers office, full tube (SLUGS) breach empty.

Ready to go, I headed to door, lock popped by a Staff member. I stepped out, Port Arms! Racked the slide, marched to end of lot!

All the Bangers jumped off their crap boxes, started up, and squealed out of lot, never to reappear! Made my cost back right there.

I was a mile away, before I stopped laughing. Lasted 6 months, then "Need to drop the cost!" Bye/Bye.

SARuger · May 9, 2016, 04:30 AM

I bought a used Maverick 88 20g from a LGS for $120. Put a Mossburg 500 HD barrel on it, pulled the plug and added a light/mount. I have less than $300 in a great little HD shotgun.

Brit · May 9, 2016, 05:14 AM

When we left Canada, I had to leave my 14" barrel behind, for my 870. That combination was awesome. Pistol grip stock, bead front sight, painted with white fridge paint. So handy.

Arizona Fusilier · May 10, 2016, 07:12 PM

Given the OP's parameters, here's another vote for the Winchester 1300.

I thought the Super Nova was semi-auto though. If not, what's the difference between that and the plain ol' Nova?

jmr40 · May 10, 2016, 09:51 PM

The butt stock and receiver are all one piece on the Nova. The Super Nova has a different butt stock that is removable. There may be other minor differences. Not worth the higher price tag to me, the standard Nova is a lot of gun for under $400 in most places.

FITASC · May 11, 2016, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Really? No one says KSG? Compact pump with 24 round capacity if you use mini shells and shell select ability.

I got to shoot the KSG with mini Aguilas and it jammed, misfed, and if you inadvertently hit the mag selector switch, it just dumps your live ammo on the ground when you work the pump - not good things in a HD scenario. Nice toy for grins and giggles, not for HD

MarkCO · May 11, 2016, 08:54 AM

The FN P12 is a great shotgun and IMHO is a better shotgun than the 870 or 500. First, it is just well fit and finished. It shoots slugs like a laser beam, runs the Aguila, 2", 2 1/2". 2 3/4" and 3" with no issues. Easy to clean with the chrome lined bore. The rotating bolt is nice, especially at speed and it has the speed pump design. The sights are very good and suitable for a defense shotgun. It has supplanted the other pump guns as my favorite.

The Winchester SXP is basically the same shotgun, but with a LOT of configurations to choose from and a lower price tag. The last three friends of mine who are in LE bought SXPs on my recommendation and have been very happy. A few others have the P12 and love them.

I have Benelli, Remington, FN and a few others sitting in the shotgun rack. While I do think the shotgun can be used as a defensive weapon with great success, it is not my first choice. Even with all that, the marginal benefit of one pump shotgun brand over another is really irrelevant when looking in the SD role. Ergonomics and controls are what matters. I still like good shotguns and I enjoy shooting them. I would choose the P12 or my Nova over the 870 any day of the week. I sold my M500 and the only reason I keep the 870 is because it was the first long gun I bought and I also shot my first bull elk with it (1600 fps slug at 80 yards) so it has sentimental value to me.

MarkCO · May 11, 2016, 08:58 AM

Quote:

I thought the Super Nova was semi-auto though. If not, what's the difference between that and the plain ol' Nova?

The SuperNova has the adjustable comfortech stock and a larger trigger guard as compared to the Nova.

Tucker 1371 · May 11, 2016, 09:16 AM

I love my KSG, you have to spend a lot of time on the gun learning it though, the action is very rough compared to conventional pump shotguns and can be short stroked if you don't absoluely abuse the gun when working it.

I keep it loaded with Aguila mini buck, 24 rounds ready to go, and it feeds those better than standard shells actually. It's compact enough to wield with one hand if you need to open a door or call 911 etc.

Quote:

I got to shoot the KSG with mini Aguilas and it jammed, misfed, and if you inadvertently hit the mag selector switch, it just dumps your live ammo on the ground when you work the pump - not good things in a HD scenario. Nice toy for grins and giggles, not for HD

FITASC, sounds like you shot a lemon. Or maybe one of the very early models. I waited to buy one until the price came down and by that time they had worked most of the kinks out. Mine and two friend's KSGs have been flawless.

EnoughGUN · May 11, 2016, 08:12 PM

FITASC I don't know whats wrong with your ksg but mine cycles minis no prob. You have to be positive with the pump, short shucking it will not work.

johnwilliamson062 · May 12, 2016, 09:06 PM

I've personally come to the conclusion pump shotguns are highly overrated. A lot of myth and bravado. "racking the slide will send them running" "No need to aim" etc.

I sold my pumps. I'd probably only buy another if I got a super deal on a really cheap one I could keep in places that aren't extremely secure.

FITASC · May 13, 2016, 06:40 AM

EnoughGun - it wasn't my gun but a friend's and we ALL had the same issues; maybe it was the mini ammo. We tried pumping carefully, forcefully, and in between - same results. And accidentally hitting the selector tab to the middle was when the ammo dumps happened.
There were enough issues that I would not rely on one for HD. Range fun time, sure.

Kvon2 · May 13, 2016, 08:29 AM

I often hear gun owners talking about "just racking the slide" or "not having to aim a shotgun" being terrible mentalities and I agree 100% but I never hear people trying to make those arguments anymore.

FITASC · May 13, 2016, 12:27 PM

I don't "aim" my shotguns, I point them............but then, I'm not using them as rifles either........

Glenn E. Meyer · May 13, 2016, 01:03 PM

I think the racking and not aiming theme has been burned out of the best gun forums. You only hear it from the uninformed now.

johnwilliamson062 · May 13, 2016, 02:16 PM

I heard both those from someone behind a sales counter at a shop/range about two months ago.
"Box of truth" and some similar endeavors put a rest to many of these claims among those who research on the internet, but I assure you it is alive and well among those who don't.

I have a few experiments I'd like to do at a range concerning trajectory after hitting a target, but I need a range with a healthy backstop that will allow me to set-up a lot of paper.
Have you seen the gel tests of shot? Notice how fast the expansion increases in the gel? Always looks like double or triple+ the rate of through the air. Now I know gel isn't a perfect model of flesh, but I wonder, what kind of pattern does one get from the pass through shot?

Quote:

I don't "aim" my shotguns, I point them

Taking clip v. mag to a whole new level...

FITASC · May 13, 2016, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Taking clip v. mag to a whole new level.

Only to the correct one......................

mavracer · May 13, 2016, 05:49 PM

Quote:

^i suppose I should clarify, I already own two other shotguns with 28 inch barrels for sporting purposes.

I really would just like to add a shorter one to the collection and do not own a pump currently.

Have you trained/shot a pump gun much? I ask because while shucking a pump is pretty easy it's not fool proof and if you're hunting/shooting with a auto or O/U a lot you might want to spend a bit more and get a auto for HD.

Kvon2 · May 13, 2016, 06:41 PM

So I am considering a semi auto but wouldn't it make sense to buy one and then train on it?

mavracer · May 13, 2016, 07:21 PM

Absolutely as long as you do train with it. I know a few folks who keep a pump for SD who don't shoot it or any pump regularly.
I use my 1897 Chinchester copy that I shoot cowboy action with as my SD shotgun because of familiarity.

johnwilliamson062 · May 13, 2016, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Only to the correct one......................

Oui oui!

When I shot clays a few times a week there were always a couple semi-serious shooters with pumps(no top level really serious ones though). Low pressure, repetitive action, standing still, with lots of practice. I still saw some short shucks on doubles and such. Of course, also some semi-autos with issues including my own. The semis usually seemed to have problems at the very beginning or after they got pretty dirty(hundreds of cheap sporting loads that were dirty).

The best option

May 5, 2016, 09:02 PM	#27
EnoughGUN Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2009 Posts: 538	home shotgun Really? No one says KSG? Compact pump with 24 round capacity if you use mini shells and shell select ability. __________________ GLOCK Austrian for Lemming

May 7, 2016, 01:12 PM	#29
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	Not sure if I mentioned my cheap, second hand Mossberg pump, an ex Police gun, has a stamp on it. I paid $87.50 for it, black plastic furniture, and I put a 1" white plastic SECURITY sign, on both sides. Had a touch of rust on it. A couple of years ago, a Jeweler's, my Son had bought a watch from, the Manager called him up, in a panic "I need an armed guard, tonight" He meant Armed Security Officer, but what the heck. Using our Shotgun waiver (High risk Patrol?) well close. My Son and I. Behind the high concrete wall, at the rear of the rear entrance's, and parking lot, was the local hood! A large group of these young male residents had taken to parking at the front entrance parking lot, just prior to the Staff leaving, sitting on their vehicles. Three of this 5 man team were attractive ladies. Who were being harassed with foul language, etc. The real pretty one, stated no armed person tomorrow (also top seller!) I am gone! All my Sons armed staff were busy, so he called the retired? Old Guy, me! Me and my $87.50 pump. Instructions to the group. Just about to leave, I go out first, you 4 follow me, enter your vehicles, lock doors, start engines. Stay put. Manager to door, lock and set alarm, then head to your car BMW! Start up, lock doors, seat belt, head out. Closest vehicle to his car, follows, till you have cleared the area. I will leave then. I was armed with a Glock 19, 2 spare magazines. Pump leaned up in the managers office, full tube (SLUGS) breach empty. Ready to go, I headed to door, lock popped by a Staff member. I stepped out, Port Arms! Racked the slide, marched to end of lot! All the Bangers jumped off their crap boxes, started up, and squealed out of lot, never to reappear! Made my cost back right there. I was a mile away, before I stopped laughing. Lasted 6 months, then "Need to drop the cost!" Bye/Bye. Last edited by Brit; May 7, 2016 at 01:20 PM.

May 11, 2016, 08:54 AM	#35
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,307	The FN P12 is a great shotgun and IMHO is a better shotgun than the 870 or 500. First, it is just well fit and finished. It shoots slugs like a laser beam, runs the Aguila, 2", 2 1/2". 2 3/4" and 3" with no issues. Easy to clean with the chrome lined bore. The rotating bolt is nice, especially at speed and it has the speed pump design. The sights are very good and suitable for a defense shotgun. It has supplanted the other pump guns as my favorite. The Winchester SXP is basically the same shotgun, but with a LOT of configurations to choose from and a lower price tag. The last three friends of mine who are in LE bought SXPs on my recommendation and have been very happy. A few others have the P12 and love them. I have Benelli, Remington, FN and a few others sitting in the shotgun rack. While I do think the shotgun can be used as a defensive weapon with great success, it is not my first choice. Even with all that, the marginal benefit of one pump shotgun brand over another is really irrelevant when looking in the SD role. Ergonomics and controls are what matters. I still like good shotguns and I enjoy shooting them. I would choose the P12 or my Nova over the 870 any day of the week. I sold my M500 and the only reason I keep the 870 is because it was the first long gun I bought and I also shot my first bull elk with it (1600 fps slug at 80 yards) so it has sentimental value to me. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us Last edited by MarkCO; May 11, 2016 at 09:08 AM.

May 11, 2016, 08:12 PM	#38
EnoughGUN Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2009 Posts: 538	ksg FITASC I don't know whats wrong with your ksg but mine cycles minis no prob. You have to be positive with the pump, short shucking it will not work. __________________ GLOCK Austrian for Lemming

May 13, 2016, 06:40 AM	#40
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	EnoughGun - it wasn't my gun but a friend's and we ALL had the same issues; maybe it was the mini ammo. We tried pumping carefully, forcefully, and in between - same results. And accidentally hitting the selector tab to the middle was when the ammo dumps happened. There were enough issues that I would not rely on one for HD. Range fun time, sure. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

May 5, 2016, 07:46 PM	#26
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	I've had Winchester Model 97's, a Remington Model 31, Hi Standard 10-Bs, Ithaca 37's and last but not least a humble Winchester Model 42 single shot .410 in arms reach at one time or another.

May 6, 2016, 07:32 PM	#28
bn12gg Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2011 Location: Winter Park, Florida Posts: 470	Browning BPS 12g works for me. Plug out -- 5 in the tube. Comfortable thru the night. .02. David.

May 9, 2016, 04:30 AM	#30
SARuger Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2014 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains of VA Posts: 954	I bought a used Maverick 88 20g from a LGS for $120. Put a Mossburg 500 HD barrel on it, pulled the plug and added a light/mount. I have less than $300 in a great little HD shotgun.

May 9, 2016, 05:14 AM	#31
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	When we left Canada, I had to leave my 14" barrel behind, for my 870. That combination was awesome. Pistol grip stock, bead front sight, painted with white fridge paint. So handy.

May 10, 2016, 07:12 PM	#32
Arizona Fusilier Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2000 Posts: 1,082	Given the OP's parameters, here's another vote for the Winchester 1300. I thought the Super Nova was semi-auto though. If not, what's the difference between that and the plain ol' Nova?

May 10, 2016, 09:51 PM	#33
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	The butt stock and receiver are all one piece on the Nova. The Super Nova has a different butt stock that is removable. There may be other minor differences. Not worth the higher price tag to me, the standard Nova is a lot of gun for under $400 in most places.

May 12, 2016, 09:06 PM	#39
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I've personally come to the conclusion pump shotguns are highly overrated. A lot of myth and bravado. "racking the slide will send them running" "No need to aim" etc. I sold my pumps. I'd probably only buy another if I got a super deal on a really cheap one I could keep in places that aren't extremely secure.

May 13, 2016, 08:29 AM	#41
Kvon2 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2016 Posts: 757	I often hear gun owners talking about "just racking the slide" or "not having to aim a shotgun" being terrible mentalities and I agree 100% but I never hear people trying to make those arguments anymore.

May 13, 2016, 12:27 PM	#42
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	I don't "aim" my shotguns, I point them............but then, I'm not using them as rifles either........ __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

May 13, 2016, 01:03 PM	#43
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	I think the racking and not aiming theme has been burned out of the best gun forums. You only hear it from the uninformed now. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

May 13, 2016, 06:41 PM	#47
Kvon2 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2016 Posts: 757	So I am considering a semi auto but wouldn't it make sense to buy one and then train on it?