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Old July 16, 2019, 08:42 AM   #76
hdbiker
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I have both and like both. The Wing Master is cosmetically prettier but better than the 500, I think not. I could replace the 500 for 1/2 the price of replacing the Remington . hdbiker
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Old July 16, 2019, 12:00 PM   #77
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For contracts over a certain amount, the government requires a certain procedure. For gray navy paint the STILL require testing and all sorts of BS. For smaller purchases they can buy off the shelf.. That's why many units still do not carry the politically correct MATO approved Beretta 92.
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Old July 16, 2019, 01:04 PM   #78
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Quote:
For contracts over a certain amount, the government requires a certain procedure.
In the Army, you find the 870's in USASOC units with the regular Army MP's using the bulk of the 590's.

In 1/75th, we had M97's Trench Guns. Love to have one of those today.

We did take some 590's out to Range 65 from the arms room once.

I have owned both and both work fine. Still own an 870.
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Old July 18, 2019, 01:49 PM   #79
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I'm a mossberg guy because I prefer the controls.
I have heard people tout the fact you can keep your finger on trigger while manipulating the controls on the Mossberg with a conventional stock.

Well, your booger hook comes off the bang switch when you are done destroying things. The booger hook is only on the bang switch when you are pointed at something your are prepared to destroy.

If I had looked at the stack and saw someone manipulating the controls of their weapon with their finger on the trigger they would be looking for a new job.

The Remington controls are set up to adhere to this principal. I find no difference in speed with either one regarding the action bar lock.

I find no difference in operation of the safety. If the weapon is going on safe, then I sure do not need my finger on the trigger while doing it. Stupid Idea and concept frankly a wonder why anyone would think that is an advantage.

If I have to take it off safe and fire then both systems work equally well. That is where it counts for combat or hunting.

The location of the safety on the Mossberg is fine for a normal stock but becomes much more difficult to operate with a pistol grip stock.

Checking to see if the weapon on safe is equal in both systems.

Having owned a Mossberg 590 and an Remington 870.....

Do not see any advantage to the Mossberg vs 870 for ergonomics outside to the Mossberg and pistol grip stock.
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Old July 18, 2019, 03:49 PM   #80
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It has NOTHING to do with keeping your finger on the trigger during manipulation of the controls. That would be stupid.

But, i can maintain a firing grip and run the action bar release. I can have the Mossy in EITHER shoulder and run the safety with ease.
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Old July 19, 2019, 07:04 AM   #81
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The “finger on the trigger” is actually a “feature” listed by several internet comparisons. Absolutely it is stupid.

Knowing shotgun manual of arms, I cannot think of a single point where the ability to maintain a “firing grip” adds any advantage. It is not a sniper rifle where the ability to maintain consistency in your stock weld is important. An 870 can easily be manipulated from either shoulder as well.

I found the Mossberg action bar lock to be small and less positive to manipulate.

That being said the differences are small and come down to personal preference. That is the whole point. Any perceived Mossberg advantage is just that.....personal perception.

The only real difference is the Mossbergs safety manipulation is hampered if you use a stock with a pistol grip.
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Old July 19, 2019, 07:18 AM   #82
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This guy knows what is he talking about and is putting out some good info.

Notice the part about trying to maintain a stock weld and manipulating a fighting shotgun.

https://youtu.be/imY0FT4ZtBc
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Old July 28, 2019, 08:23 PM   #83
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Everyone keeps bringing up the 870 trap gun. It is of Wingmaster quality. The express is poor workmanship when compared to the Wingmaster.
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Old July 29, 2019, 09:13 AM   #84
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Quote:
It has NOTHING to do with keeping your finger on the trigger during manipulation of the controls. That would be stupid.
From this thread. Folks think it is a feature of the Mossberg that you can manipulate the safety with finger on the trigger.....


Quote:
I also hate the location of the 870 safety which requires I move my finger away from the trigger to move the safety.
The feature is you MUST take your booger hook off the bang switch.

Bottom line, If the weapon needs to be on safe then your finger needs to be off the trigger.
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Old July 29, 2019, 05:43 PM   #85
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David, the problem with the 870 is you have to disrupt your grip to push the safety off. With the 590, I can maintain my grip, with my finger on the trigger guard, and disengage the safety.
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Old July 29, 2019, 10:29 PM   #86
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I can maintain my grip, with my finger on the trigger guard, and disengage the safety.
Or better yet, straight along the receiver and not need to curl my trigger finger anywhere near the trigger.
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Old July 29, 2019, 11:14 PM   #87
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David, the problem with the 870 is you have to disrupt your grip to push the safety off. With the 590, I can maintain my grip, with my finger on the trigger guard, and disengage the safety.


Putting the safety on an 870 I have to remove my grip but getting off is no issue at all. Trying to think what would make your hand different such that you cannot get the safety off.



https://www.post.idaho.gov/Reg4/2017...Manual2016.pdf

You thinking of the action bar controls?


Anyway, with a 590 you cannot manipulate the safety with a pistol grip in the low ready which is why SOF uses 870's.
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Old July 30, 2019, 11:11 PM   #88
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You thinking of the action bar controls?
Probably. I wonder if it's the work of a left handed engineer?
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Old August 1, 2019, 09:38 AM   #89
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David, the only thing I see a pistol grip shotgun remotely useful for is door breaching. I would still rather uses regular stock for that.
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Old August 3, 2019, 05:08 AM   #90
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With my finger straight and off the trigger I can disengage the safety of an 870 with the inside of my second knuckle.
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Old August 3, 2019, 06:49 AM   #91
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Mossberg vs Remington Pump Guns

Quote:
Originally Posted by reynolds357 View Post
David, the only thing I see a pistol grip shotgun remotely useful for is door breaching. I would still rather uses regular stock for that.

Do you mean pistol grip only, or pistol grip stocks?

While I love my 870 Police with Magpul stock (home defense shotgun), just did a class with 14” 870s... that had pistol grip stocks. Worked out fine, except for some trainees who just didn’t like shooting a shotgun. Similar to my braced TAC-14, but nobody had issues with the pistol grip (not saying like three of the shotguns didn’t have issues, but they were mechanical since they were beaten to hell).

Unless it is a traditional stock (and then you have what was previously mentioned), Remington safety is superior. With a pistol grip, you really don’t use the safety with a Mossberg. Had one, prior to the the KSG I tried out... which was ultimately replaced with the TAC-14. But do have to point out, familiarity is big... I’ve been shooting Remington shotguns since I was 14.
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Old August 5, 2019, 07:57 AM   #92
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Funny, I don't find the safety on my pistol-gripped Mossberg impossible to operate. I swivel my right hand up and use my index finger to slide the safety off quickly and easily. As fast as the 870's push button? No. But is it as difficult as some of these posters make it out? Not hardly. Besides, if I was in a situation where use of the shotgun was imminent, I certainly wouldn't wait until the split-second before firing to disengage the safety. In an HD situation, the safety goes off as soon as I pick the weapon up and chamber a round.
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Old August 5, 2019, 09:46 AM   #93
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I have had many shotguns with the crossbolt safety in the rear of the trigger guard, and also quite a few with a tang safety.
I can't think of anything that is of less concern to me than where the safety is.
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Old August 5, 2019, 07:14 PM   #94
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I have had many shotguns with the crossbolt safety in the rear of the trigger guard, and also quite a few with a tang safety.
I can't think of anything that is of less concern to me than where the safety is.
Yep

Non-issue because if need it on safe, the hard part is over. The safety is on until I am ready to destroy something.

The main issue is being able to get it off quickly as you engage the threat.

Quote:
David, the only thing I see a pistol grip shotgun remotely useful for is door breaching. I would still rather uses regular stock for that.
Pistol grip stock although many of the 870's we had were just a pistol grip as breaching tools. Pistol grip stocks offer some reloading and manual of arms advantages. That being said, I personally like a regular stock on my tactical shotgun.

Both of these shotguns, the Mossberg series and the Remington 870 are fine, reliable, combat platforms. I simply pointed out for those taking issue with some of the 870 features, issues exist with the Mossberg as well.

In the end, it is Brunettes vs Blondes...

Last edited by davidsog; August 5, 2019 at 07:26 PM.
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Old August 14, 2019, 10:26 PM   #95
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To me the Mossberg feels like club.......The 670 feels like a shotgun.
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Old August 15, 2019, 12:38 PM   #96
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Nothing wrong with the Mossberg or the Remington. Owned a Mossberg once, and currently have an 870. But I prefer the Winchester shotguns of which I own two. A 1200 and a 1300.
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Old August 15, 2019, 07:18 PM   #97
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I have used both Mossbergs (and a couple of New Havens) and Remingtons. I bought my favorite Mossberg 500 at an auction. The previous owner obviously hated the plastic safety and replaced it by hammering flat a used .22 casing, punching a hole in it, and locktiting the screw in. It has never failed in the 25 years that I've owned and shot it.
I've found that ATA trap shooters tend not to use pumps - more like single-shot BT-99s etc. or O/Us. I have used an S&W Super 1000 for sporting clays.
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Old August 16, 2019, 12:21 PM   #98
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I must admit that mossbergs lack of quality has amazed me. I bought my son a 500 a few weeks ago. Compared to my 30 year old 500, it's a piece of junk. Compared to the 870 DM I bought last month, it's a piece of junk. There is almost no difference in his 500 and a Maverick.
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Old August 17, 2019, 09:44 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reynolds357 View Post
I must admit that mossbergs lack of quality has amazed me. I bought my son a 500 a few weeks ago. Compared to my 30 year old 500, it's a piece of junk. Compared to the 870 DM I bought last month, it's a piece of junk. There is almost no difference in his 500 and a Maverick.
Son has a 590 and I have a Maverick..not sure if the 590 is overpriced or the Maverick is underpriced..the 'guts' between the 2 are the same..metal trigger guard on the 590..plastic on the Maverick..both really fun to shoot..

Is the 590 more than twice as good as the Maverick? Is the Maverick a better 'gun for the money? I donno..he's really happy with his SG and so am I..
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Old August 17, 2019, 08:45 PM   #100
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The 590 is their military platform shotgun. It's a good gun. The 500 my son bought has the same plastic parts as the Maverick.
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