What use is a manual safety on a single action pistol in Condition 2? (Hammer forward)

veprdude · December 28, 2019, 10:22 PM

I bought a Star PD in 45ACP. For those who don't know it's like a Commander style 1911 that has some Hi-Power features. It's a single action hammer fired semi-auto.

You can engage the manual safety at all times. (Hammer forward or back)

My 1911s and Hi-Powers won't do this. What's the advantage?

KyJim · December 28, 2019, 10:29 PM

If there is a round in the chamber, it prevents firing if you place your finger on the trigger while thumbing the hammer back

**44 AMP** · December 29, 2019, 02:23 PM

It's been over 40 years since I had a Star PD, and I can no longer remember all the details. I don't know that there is an "advantage" to it, or not.

Can you cock the hammer with the safety on?

It looks like a 1911 but the internals are slightly different, and it may just be the way things are made inside that allows the safety to go on with the hammer down, and not a specifically intended feature.

SIGSHR · December 29, 2019, 03:16 PM

My Star Model B allows the safety to engaged in the half cock position.

RickB · December 29, 2019, 04:55 PM

If someone gets the gun away from you, having hammer down and safety on should give you plenty of time to run or take other action before you're shot.

One reason I'll always want a safety on a carry gun; slows me down not at all, but could be handy if someone else, anyone else, has the gun and doesn't know how it works.

Bill DeShivs · December 29, 2019, 06:39 PM

You can't cock a PD with the safety on.

veprdude · December 29, 2019, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Can you cock the hammer with the safety on?

No. The safety will not allow the slide back while engaged either. The safety externally prevents the slide from coming back. The safety will not engage half-cocked either.

Just a weird setup and seeing if there was a particular reason and if these features were purposely selected.

bamaranger · December 30, 2019, 12:05 AM

If all features are as described, I see no advantage. You can't cycle the gun to chamber a round, as from condition zero, and one can't manually cock the gun from condition two, without disengaging the safety first, which adds an extra step prior to making the gun ready for action.

Jim Watson · December 30, 2019, 01:02 AM

I think it is a side effect of the mechanical design, not an intentional operating mode. Neither bug nor feature. The Star safety does not function at all like a Colt or Browning.

Bill DeShivs · December 30, 2019, 02:20 AM

The Star safety is actually much better than most safeties. It blocks the hammer fall by using a piece of steel to prevent hammer fall.

RickB · December 30, 2019, 11:12 AM

The Colt .380s - Gov't, Mustang - and their derivatives allow the safety to be engaged with the hammer down, but the slide can't be racked with the hammer down and safety engaged.

If the hammer is cocked, and the safety engaged, the slide can be racked.
I think they have that backwards; I can see a (very) small benefit to being able to engage the safety of a gun in unknown condition, or to load the gun on-safe, but if you have to cock the hammer, then engage the safety, then rack?
I also dislike losing the "slide lock" feature in exchange for rack-on-safe.

I've owned two PDs, and was unaware that it offered conditions of readiness different from a 1911.

lee n. field · December 30, 2019, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veprdude

I bought a Star PD in 45ACP. For those who don't know it's like a Commander style 1911 that has some Hi-Power features. It's a single action hammer fired semi-auto.

You can engage the manual safety at all times. (Hammer forward or back)

My 1911s and Hi-Powers won't do this. What's the advantage?

can cycle slide with safety on. (IIRC,YMMV)

Jim Watson · December 30, 2019, 02:52 PM

Quote:

The Colt .380s - Gov't, Mustang - and their derivatives allow the safety to be engaged with the hammer down,

Those and similar guns from Sig, SA, and Kimber are really more like a Star than a 1911.

ballardw · December 31, 2019, 01:29 AM

Almost any "safety" added points for calculating whether it could be imported under GCA 68 implementation rules. As did "target" features like "target grips". So odd things on any imported sidearm may have that points system as part of the design for the US market.

Don't know if this is the case for this pistol but lots of odd "features" at one time came from this stuff.

RickB · January 1, 2020, 11:40 AM

Didn't the points system really only affect compact pistols?
Large guns like the Hi-Power were unscathed, but the "Browning" 1922 sprouted large adjustable sights, thumb-rest grips, etc., to offset the dreaded small size.

Jim Watson · January 1, 2020, 01:33 PM

Well, length, height, and weight garner import points, so the BHP was importable as was while the .380 had to be messed with.

December 28, 2019, 10:22 PM	#1
veprdude Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2019 Location: Texas Posts: 430	What use is a manual safety on a single action pistol in Condition 2? (Hammer forward) I bought a Star PD in 45ACP. For those who don't know it's like a Commander style 1911 that has some Hi-Power features. It's a single action hammer fired semi-auto. You can engage the manual safety at all times. (Hammer forward or back) My 1911s and Hi-Powers won't do this. What's the advantage?

December 29, 2019, 02:23 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,844	It's been over 40 years since I had a Star PD, and I can no longer remember all the details. I don't know that there is an "advantage" to it, or not. Can you cock the hammer with the safety on? It looks like a 1911 but the internals are slightly different, and it may just be the way things are made inside that allows the safety to go on with the hammer down, and not a specifically intended feature. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 29, 2019, 04:55 PM	#5
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	If someone gets the gun away from you, having hammer down and safety on should give you plenty of time to run or take other action before you're shot. One reason I'll always want a safety on a carry gun; slows me down not at all, but could be handy if someone else, anyone else, has the gun and doesn't know how it works. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

December 29, 2019, 06:39 PM	#6
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	You can't cock a PD with the safety on. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

December 30, 2019, 12:05 AM	#8
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,312	as described If all features are as described, I see no advantage. You can't cycle the gun to chamber a round, as from condition zero, and one can't manually cock the gun from condition two, without disengaging the safety first, which adds an extra step prior to making the gun ready for action.

December 28, 2019, 10:29 PM	#2
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	If there is a round in the chamber, it prevents firing if you place your finger on the trigger while thumbing the hammer back

December 29, 2019, 03:16 PM	#4
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	My Star Model B allows the safety to engaged in the half cock position.

December 30, 2019, 01:02 AM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I think it is a side effect of the mechanical design, not an intentional operating mode. Neither bug nor feature. The Star safety does not function at all like a Colt or Browning.

December 30, 2019, 02:20 AM	#10
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	The Star safety is actually much better than most safeties. It blocks the hammer fall by using a piece of steel to prevent hammer fall. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

December 30, 2019, 11:12 AM	#11
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	The Colt .380s - Gov't, Mustang - and their derivatives allow the safety to be engaged with the hammer down, but the slide can't be racked with the hammer down and safety engaged. If the hammer is cocked, and the safety engaged, the slide can be racked. I think they have that backwards; I can see a (very) small benefit to being able to engage the safety of a gun in unknown condition, or to load the gun on-safe, but if you have to cock the hammer, then engage the safety, then rack? I also dislike losing the "slide lock" feature in exchange for rack-on-safe. I've owned two PDs, and was unaware that it offered conditions of readiness different from a 1911. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

December 31, 2019, 01:29 AM	#14
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,411	Almost any "safety" added points for calculating whether it could be imported under GCA 68 implementation rules. As did "target" features like "target grips". So odd things on any imported sidearm may have that points system as part of the design for the US market. Don't know if this is the case for this pistol but lots of odd "features" at one time came from this stuff. __________________ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ All data is flawed, some just less so.

January 1, 2020, 11:40 AM	#15
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Didn't the points system really only affect compact pistols? Large guns like the Hi-Power were unscathed, but the "Browning" 1922 sprouted large adjustable sights, thumb-rest grips, etc., to offset the dreaded small size. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

January 1, 2020, 01:33 PM	#16
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Well, length, height, and weight garner import points, so the BHP was importable as was while the .380 had to be messed with.