Mossberg MVP Patrol. Good backup for the AR?

[TruthTellers]

In my research for AR builds I've seen some good reports of the Mossberg MVP rifles' accuracy. Me being a person who believe 2 is one and 1 is none, I see the Mossberg MVP as good secondary rifle to the AR in the event that semi auto rifles like the AR become regulated into making them de facto banned.

Do you think the Mossberg MVP, given that they use the same mags as the AR, given that they're very accurate make for a good alternative to the AR if laws come down that make the semi auto banned?

[johnwilliamson062]

If the AR is outright banned I don't think 556 will be a popular cartridge for civilians.
Id much prefer the 556 long ranger from henry.

[Sharkbite]

I agree... If the AR is gone from civilian hands the 223 is just another mid range varmint cartridge.

As to the MVP, ive had 2. Love em. I still have the MVP-Lc model in 308. Its my suppressed 308 at present. Shoots as well as you can ask an out of the box gun to shoot. The bolt throw is a little sloppy, but it functions fine.

[Cornhusker77]

I have a MVP Patrol, and I like most things about it.
I did replace the mag well with a Tromix unit and that helped the feeding issues I had at first.
It's just a fun rifle, accurate, nice trigger and doesn't eat ammo as fast as my ARs
It's also a pretty good looking rifle in my opinion.

[kozak6]

It seems likely that any legislation that would ban an AR15 would be part of a much wider rangeing "assault weapons ban" that would also ban the magazines.

Would the MVP be as compelling if you were limited to 10 rounders?

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by kozak6

It seems likely that any legislation that would ban an AR15 would be part of a much wider rangeing "assault weapons ban" that would also ban the magazines.

Would the MVP be as compelling if you were limited to 10 rounders?

Even 10 round AR mags are fairly common and cheap. I'd prefer them over $40 Ruger American magazines that hold 5 rounds.

[Don Fischer]

Ban the AR type rifles and the 5.56 lose's popularity? Make me wonder why they got them for in the first place The high capacity magazine's? Maybe the ability to fire off rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger? Doesn't matter what rifle you fire the 5.56 in, it's still a 5.56.

This really does sound like people get it for little other reason than high capacity mags and rapid fire!

[AK103K]

I had an MVP in 223. If I were you, Id look very closely at it before you buy. I was looking for a bolt gun to use as a suppressor host when I bought mine and was actually looking at other things, Ruger American and Savage Hog Hunter, but they were for the most part, unavailable at the time. Saw an ad for the Mossberg and figured I give it a try.

If I were to do it again, Id go with the Hog Hunter. Didnt like the Ruger either,when I finally got to see one.

My biggest complaint was the action. The way the bolt is set up, its very "hitchy" and not at all smooth and what youd expect from a good bolt gun.

Its got a funny little flapper on the bottom of the bolt to strip the rounds off the mag, and many times, I had to pull the bolt rearwards when I went to close it, because the round hadnt seated properly.

It wasnt what Id call accurate either, but maybe I expect too much. Overall, it wasnt very awe-inspiring anyway.

The stock is cheap and flimsy and needs some weight added.

As long as you use the correct ammo for an AR, one with an OAL that will fit in the mag, youre OK. If you want to use something heavier, with an OAL longer than the AR mag, youve got problems. The gun becomes a single shot, assuming the round will chamber.

Like I said, Id do my best to get my hands on wone and at least look at one before I ordered one. Shooting one would be even better.

[TruthTellers]

AK103K,

I've also been less impressed with the Ruger American the more I've handled them. Originally I was going to get one in 7.62x39, but now I feel like I'd be better off waiting for Midland Arms to come out with a barrel in 7.62x39. Then I won't have to deal with Mini-30 magazines I don't want.

At least with the Mossberg MVP, it's using magazines I'd be using in the AR and as such, would be either 55 grain, 62 grain, or 77 grain bullets. No need to deviate and use heavy bullets that don't fit in the AR's magazine.

[Sharkbite]

Doesn't matter what rifle you fire the 5.56 in, it's still a 5.56.

And despite what the media hype says about the 5.56 round being “high power”, its actually pretty low on the power scale. Most States wont allow its use on Deer or other game animals. Its best use outside SD is left to small game/Varmints.

So, take it out of the AR platform and restrict it to a bolt action and its usefulness is limited to varmints and such. If we are going to discuss bolt guns as SD platforms, i would opt for a different caliber then 5.56

[Model12Win]

I'd rather have an Enfield's Lee.

[agtman]

I dunno ... Mossbummer, Savage, Ruger. Their DBM-fed variants all seem to have this or that issue.

[youngridge]

I would maybe look at savage or the ruger precision line up and weigh up all options.

If it comes down to where they take the AR-15, my guess is they will try and confiscate the mags that go along with it, heck they would probably take the mags first, then go after the AR platform. Better hope I remember where I lost all mine on that boating accident on Mississippi river.....

That being said I would look at the biggest bang for the buck bolt you can find, be it ruger, savage, or mossberg. I would aim for accuracy when buying. No pun intended.

[stolivar]

The Ruger american ranch now has ar mags

steve

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by Sharkbite

And despite what the media hype says about the 5.56 round being “high power”, its actually pretty low on the power scale. Most States wont allow its use on Deer or other game animals.

I don't know why this myth is perpetuated, the .224 caliber centerfire is allowed in more states than not. Here is an old list and I know Wyoming now allows .224 caliber centerfire for some big game.

Alabama- centerfire
Alaska- centerfire
Alberta- .23 and up centerfire
Arizona- centerfire
Arkansas- .22 and up centerfire
California- centerfire
Colorado- .24 and up, 70grn for deer, pronghorn, and bear, 85 grain and up for elk and moose/ minimum of 1000ft/lbs at 100 yards
Connecticut- .243 and up if legal in your area
Delaware- shotgun/muzzle loader
Florida- centerfire
Georgia- .22 and up centerfire
Hawaii- Any rifle with at least 1200 ft/lbs of ME. This would start at around .223 I think
Idaho- Centerfire (cannot weigh more than 16 lbs?)
Illinois- Shotgun/ML/Pistol only
Indiana- Rifles with pistol calibers/shotgun/ML/Pistols
Iowa- .24 or larger centerfire only for antlerless season in part of the state.
Kansas- .23 or larger centerfire (actually says larger than .23 so maybe .24 is the mininum)
kentucky- centerfire
Louisiana- .22 and up centerfire
Maine- .22 magnum rimfire and up!
Manitoba- Centerfire, but it says .23 and below not recommended. Does not say illegal though.
Maryland- ME of at least 1200 ft/lbs
Mass- Shotgun/ML
Michigan- centerfire in certain areas
Minnesota- .24 and up centerfire
Mississippi- No restrictions that I could find
Missouri- centerfire
Montana- No restrictions
Nebraska- Rifles with 900 ft/lbs or more at 100 yards
Nevada- .22 centerfire and up
New Hampshire- centerfire
New Jersey- shotgun only
New Mexico- centerfire
New York- centerfire
North Carolina- No restrictions
North Dakota- .22-.49 centerfire
Nova Scotia- .23 and up
Ohio- Shotgun/ML
Oklahoma- centerfire with 55 grn or heavier bullet
Ontario- centerfire
Oregon- .22 centerfire and up
Pennsylvania- centerfire
Quebec- 6mm/.243 and up
Rhode Island- shotgun/ML
Saskatchewan- .24 and up
South Carolina- centerfire
South Dakota- rifles with 1,000 ft/lbs or more ME
Tennessee- centerfire
Texas- centerfire
Utah- centerfire
vermont- No restriction
Virginia- .23 centerfire and up
Washington- .24 centerfire and up
West Virginia- .25 rimfire and up and all centerfire
Wisconsin- .22 centerfire and up
Wyoming- .23 centerfire and up

When I joined this forum I was very much against the .223 for deer, that was just ignorance on my part. I really changed my mind when my daughter wanted to hunt, my choice was to not allow her to hunt or to let her use a low recoil round like the .223. Using proper constructed bullets the .223 is more than capable for deer sized game bullets using a partition, bonded, or mono metal construction have made the .224 caliber bullets more than capable of taking larger animals than varmints.

If the AR is outright banned I don't think 556 will be a popular cartridge for civilians.

The .223/5.56 won't loose popularity at all. If there was an outright ban on the AR, is highly doubt there would be a confiscation of the AR rifles. More than likely there would be a grandfather clause that would allow you to keep your AR rifles. I'm pretty sure that bolt action and single shot .223 rifles far out sell other .224 caliber cartridges. The cartridge is far to popular to just die out because of an AR rifle ban.

[Sharkbite]

Ok... change “most” to “some” states (13 according to the list provided) dont allow 223 for deer.

The bottom line is the ctg is NOT very powerful. Its a Varmint round by design. It worked for Mil/Sd use because of its ability to be shot well and worked on one of the weakest animals on the planet...humans.

The Mil wanted a ctg that wounds. Civilian SD follows Mil choices. Look at all the folks that rush out to purchase guns the Mil adopts.

Without high cap mags and semi-auto platforms, the 223 loses a HUGE following. Again in a boltgun, other calibers hold better potential.

[johnwilliamson062]

Its a Varmint round by design.

Not exactly. The 222 was a varmint target round. It was used as the basis for the 223/556 development, BUT the round was developed specifically for the AR.

I'm pretty sure that bolt action and single shot .223 rifles far out sell other .224 caliber cartridges.

Yeah, because besides an AR most people don't need/want a .224. It is not as if people will start buying other 224s, they will just buy larger diameter cartridges.

[T. O'Heir]

"...I was very much against the .223 for deer..." In 2005, you weren't wrong. There were very few deer suitable bullets available then. That has drastically changed. Nothing to do with anybody's ignorance.
"...the round was developed specifically for the AR..." And the AR/M-16 was developed as an air crew survival rifle, not a battle rifle.
"...just another mid range varmint cartridge..." That you can buy as milsurp. Mind you, that might change if the rifle is banned.
Mind you, the real issue is the on going use of the term assault rifle when speaking of a sporting rifle. And it's not just the media hacks doing it. Shooters and a lot of internet forums lump 'em in with "military' rifles. The AR-15 is not a battle rifle. Never has been either.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

You know what will be popular if they ban ARs? A straight-pull, side-charging AR bolt action or a pump-AR.

You can’t stop the signal!

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by Sharkbite

Ok... change “most” to “some” states (13 according to the list provided) dont allow 223 for deer.

Still not correct only "Six" states out right have regulations against the use of .224 caliber cartridges and they are:

Colorado- .24 and up, 70grn for deer, pronghorn, and bear, 85 grain and up for elk and moose/ minimum of 1000ft/lbs at 100 yards
Connecticut- .243 and up if legal in your area
Iowa- .24 or larger centerfire only for antlerless season in part of the state.
Kansas- .23 or larger centerfire (actually says larger than .23 so maybe .24 is the mininum)
Minnesota- .24 and up centerfire
Washington- .24 centerfire and up

Five states are shotgun or shotgun/muzzle loader only. So that means all rifle and pistol cartridges are banned. This has nothing to do with how "low power" any cartridge is, those states are:

Delaware- shotgun/muzzle loader
Mass- Shotgun/ML
New Jersey- shotgun only
Ohio- Shotgun/ML
Rhode Island- shotgun/ML

The last two I'll list individually. The first one is Illinois which allows pistols in centerfire rifle cartridges of .308 diameter or larger. So while it does technically not allow the .223 it also doesn't allow many other capable deer cartridges.

The next one is Indiana, which if I'm correct used to only allow straight wall pistol cartridges in rifles of .35 caliber and up. Then a few years ago they started allowing bottle neck cartridges of .35 caliber and up but they had a shorter cartridge length so specialty rifle cartridges were introduced on shortened rifle cases. In 2016 they passed a law that on private land only rifle cartridges that could be used were .243/6mm or .308/7.62mm cartridges. However, cartridges that fell in diameters smaller, in between, and larger can not be used. This list did not include the specialty rifle cartridges .35 caliber or larger that meet cartridge length restrictions.

Yeah, because besides an AR most people don't need/want a .224.

I think that regardless of the AR rifles a lot of people want a .224 caliber centerfire (.223, .22-250, ....), need really has nothing to do with it. There are a lot of varmint/predator shooters that like them, plus it's an easy way to transition new and young shooters from a rimfire. As far as the .223/5.56 cartridge it is by far one of the easiest on the pocket book to shoot when moving up from rimfire to centerfire.

[JeepHammer]

The 'Super .22' has been around since the .218 Bee, and shows no sign of going anywhere anytime soon.
The .223 Rem/5.56 NATO will be with us for the next 100 years or so, simply because of surplus military ammo & fired cases, and the sheer volume of firearms currently chambered in the round.

Cases in point, .45 ACP, 9mm Para/Lugar, .30-06, 7.62x39R, .308 Win/7.62x51 NATO,
There isn't a real shortage of .45-70 Govt. And it's been how many years since the military dropped that round?...

The .223 is a 'Varmint', round... Small, light, fast, low recoil, inherently accurate in it's original form.
There will always be a following by target & varmint shooters.

As for bolt vs auto-loading, it's up to you...
Both *CAN* be accurate.
I won't get into the type of AR clone shooter I normally see, we all know the stereotype already, and it's accurate...

I shoot AR varmint rifles, right along with bolt action, and I rarely use more than a 10 round mag.
I simply don't have a use for high cap mags since I AIM every shot and don't click off rounds just to hear noise.
I don't participate in 'Speed Gun' competitions but I do build speed guns for the guys that do.
(Shooting pistol size targets at pistol ranges is hardly a 'Sport'...)

As for the MVP, I get the same complaint from every owner, the mag wobbles and doesn't allow the shooter to lay prone very well.
(Again, short mags help, so do synthetic mags)

Until someone makes a long mag well, metal mags are going to wobble.

I understand the MVP can be accurate, but most known shooters say Mossburg barrels are hit & miss in quality. I don't know personally since I haven't owned one, just worked on several.
I know early on they had a keyhole problem, which was corrected.

[KevininPa]

Originally Posted by Don Fischer

Ban the AR type rifles and the 5.56 lose's popularity? Make me wonder why they got them for in the first place The high capacity magazine's? Maybe the ability to fire off rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger? Doesn't matter what rifle you fire the 5.56 in, it's still a 5.56.

This really does sound like people get it for little other reason than high capacity mags and rapid fire!

I'm honestly not into thirty rounders for bolts or pumps. I have a Remington 7615P pump. Fun rifle to shoot. Can use a thirty for it if I want but it's actually a pain. Typically I use tens at the range and keep a couple of twenties for it for woods bumming. Better balance and handling.

[Nunya53]

Just to add to the confusion, Kansas dropped the 23 and larger caliber a few years back and is now "centerfire". Growing up in Kansas, I thought the 23 and larger was reasonable. Haven't hunted with a .223, but I'm sure it's fine...just not for me.

Jerry

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by Nunya53

Just to add to the confusion, Kansas dropped the 23 and larger caliber a few years back and is now "centerfire". Growing up in Kansas, I thought the 23 and larger was reasonable. Haven't hunted with a .223, but I'm sure it's fine...just not for me.

Jerry

Thanks for the update, I knew my info was a little dated. I don't mind the allowing the .223, but centerfire opens a lot of doors. Now cartridges like 17 fireball are perfectly legal, however it is now up to the hunter to use good judgement. Like I said the .223 is perfectly capable using proper bullets and good shot placement. However, it is far from perfect for use on medium sized game.

[johnwilliamson062]

Ohio isn't ML and shotgun either. It hasn't been for a decade or more at least. You had to shoot your 45-70 cartridge out of an Encore until a few years ago, but now you can even use a rifle.