Complete novice planning a shooting trip over a month; what to expect?

Aspirant · January 5, 2018, 04:23 AM

Hi from the gun-controlled paradise of Singapore! Where the trains mostly run on time and the streets are safe even at night, but there's not a gun to be owned, possessed or shot if you aren't in the police or army.

(If you are, you train when they say you train, with what you're issued; not a weapon or round more.)

That said, in 2015 I visited LA and indulged the shooter in me; but all too quickly I was out of time and money. I aim to visit again before 2020 (I've given myself till the end of the first Trump term), and would love answers to these questions:

(1) I'm more interested in learning and becoming proficient with a carbine (AR-type) first, a precision rifle second and a defensive pistol third. Is this a recommended order, if I can only stay for a month on a budget of $5,000? (I'm still saving and God willing, the actual figure will be higher.)

(2) I'm used to shooting 5.56 x 45 and 7.62 x 51. Are these good calibres to stick with, or should I experiment with .22 LR or something else? I want to master the fundamentals out to 300 metres and would love recommendations.

(3) Would it be possible to stay in one location and have access to a single weapon I can use consistently throughout the month and subsequent visits? I figure that's the closest I can get to a gun I can call my own.

As I'm not a US citizen I can't be its legal owner; of course its owner can use it at other times.

(4) I'm really new to this and any advice on a state to pick, what to look out for, local laws to observe, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks!

I'm well-read on firearms safety and etiquette (I love Colonel Cooper's work), though I welcome any further thoughts you have for a newcomer.

Thanks in advance!

**Aguila Blanca** · January 5, 2018, 11:07 AM

.22 is always a good starting point, but you won't be shooting to 300 yards/meters with a .22. For what you describe, I think 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 are good choices, especially since you have some familiarity with both already.

My suggestion would be to contact some of the better-known training facilities, such as (but not limited to) Gunsite, and ask about their courses and the possibility of renting a firearm while there. California is very gun-unfriendly, so I would suggest looking at other states, such as Arizona (Gunsite), Nevada, and similar.

Aspirant · January 6, 2018, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

.22 is always a good starting point, but you won't be shooting to 300 yards/meters with a .22. For what you describe, I think 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 are good choices, especially since you have some familiarity with both already.

My suggestion would be to contact some of the better-known training facilities, such as (but not limited to) Gunsite, and ask about their courses and the possibility of renting a firearm while there. California is very gun-unfriendly, so I would suggest looking at other states, such as Arizona (Gunsite), Nevada, and similar.

Thanks Aguila! It's still some time away, but I'll update here as needed.

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**Spats McGee** · January 6, 2018, 09:54 AM

Be sure to point out that you're visiting from Singapore. Some state laws (NY comes to mind) may prohibit you from renting or shooting their guns.

Welcome to TFL, and enjoy your shooting!

TXAZ · January 6, 2018, 10:01 AM

+1 for Arizona.
Scottsdale Gun Club is excellent.

Machineguntony · January 6, 2018, 02:14 PM

You’re going to come across an ocean and thousands of miles to shoot a 22?!

As they say in America, go big or go home. You need to shoot the fun stuff, like machine guns, belt feds, 50 cal rifles, do some extreme long range steel shooting, where you hear the steel hitting, rapid fire a semi auto pistol, etc.

You’re going to be here for a short time and you don’t have access to consistent practice afterwards, thus, accept that you aren’t going to be good, and just enjoy the experience for what it is...a vacation fantasy. Which is ok because most of us Americans aren’t as good as we think, either.

**Spats McGee** · January 7, 2018, 10:00 AM

I agree with Machineguntony. You can shoot a LOT of .22 for the same cost as the centerfire calibers, but this trip is about fun, not training. Enjoy the thrill of turning money into recoil.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 7, 2018, 10:36 AM

I have to disagree with Machineguntony and Spats. Aspirant is going to be visiting (and shooting) for a month. Since he can't shoot big bore stuff where he is, he most likely doesn't have a shoulder that's accustomed to big bore recoil. It would be a serious bummer if he started out on the first day with guns like M1 Garands, Mosin-Nagants, and .50 cal sniper rifles and bruised his shoulder so badly that from thereon even a BB gun would be painful to shoot.

My sense is that he's interested in learning how to shoot well at moderate distances. I think that's an admirable goal, and it can be pursued shooting firearms that don't punish the shooter. He can always shoot some elephant guns on his last day, but it would be a shame (IMHO) to compromise the entire month's effort by damaging his shoulder on the first day at the range.

Another thought for Aspirant: Appleseed. https://appleseedinfo.org/

There are Appleseed shoots scheduled around the country, every month. If you can tie into one that's near where you'll be staying, it's a great way to learn both marksmanship and some American history. You won't shoot at 300+ yards at an Appleseed, but you'll get a lot better at shooting at 100 yards.

jimbob86 · January 7, 2018, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Another thought for Aspirant: Appleseed. https://appleseedinfo.org/

If one wanted to learn rifle marksmanship on the cheap, this would be it....

If one wanted to shoot a bunch of cool guns on the cheap, there are better and cheaper places to do it..... Cambodia has recoil tourism.

http://ilikeguns.com.au/

What's round trip airfare from Singapore to the US going to cost?

I'm guessing that would eat up a couple thousand dollars to get to a gun friendly place in the US ..... add in lodging and there's nothing left for gun fun.

Aspirant · January 7, 2018, 11:35 AM

Thanks everyone! I'm actually less into recoil tourism as I approached shooting as a necessity, albeit a very badly-taught one where I come from.

I was introduced to it as a cadet in my local JROTC version (we call it the National Cadet Corps, or NCC) and later as an Army conscript -- I did VERY badly and could've done with patient training and learning at my own pace, neither of which was available.

Basic training isn't interested in mastery, it's a pipeline and their goal is to check off all the boxes and graduate you, not equip you with proficiency. You actually fire only a few rounds at a time under very tightly controlled conditions, and if you don't do well there, tough luck -- and the sergeants rapping your helmet and yelling at you are conscripts like yourself who probably don't know what you're doing wrong.

That's what got me interested in the fundamentals first I guess.

Appleseed sounds great! I figure once I'm consistently ringing steel at 100 - 300m I can approach automatic weapons, battle rifles and bigger calibres like .50 BMG with confidence. One step at a time

That said, Cambodia is MUCH closer by but I'm not confident of the safety and rigour I'll be trained on. It's also not something that's widely promoted so I'll need to dig a bit more before I'm confident enough to head there.

The month, in that case, will be two-thirds slow fundamental training and one-third money-into-recoil fun. I'm certainly not missing that *grin*

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Evan Thomas · January 7, 2018, 12:10 PM

I'll add another vote for an Appleseed shoot. They're a great way to learn the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship, and they're fun! The Appleseed folks (at least where I am!) are also a very welcoming community -- if you contact them ahead of time and explain your circumstances, there's a good chance they'll be able to fit you up with equipment, including a rifle; they assume people have their own stuff, but they always bring spares of pretty much everything.

You'll also meet some really nice people -- and learn some American history as a bonus!

**Spats McGee** · January 7, 2018, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

I have to disagree with Machineguntony and Spats. Aspirant is going to be visiting (and shooting) for a month. Since he can't shoot big bore stuff where he is, he most likely doesn't have a shoulder that's accustomed to big bore recoil. It would be a serious bummer if he started out on the first day with guns like M1 Garands, Mosin-Nagants, and .50 cal sniper rifles and bruised his shoulder so badly that from thereon even a BB gun would be painful to shoot.

Absolutely. I'm not saying he should start out with a Barrett or anything. I think he should start small, with a .22, and move up from there. It would be a shame, however, to spend that much $$$ and energy and then miss what would be a rare opportunity for him to shoot something like a Garand, or whatever other big bore or fancy stuff floats his boat.

Aspirant · January 7, 2018, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spats McGee

Absolutely. I'm not saying he should start out with a Barrett or anything. I think he should start small, with a .22, and move up from there. It would be a shame, however, to spend that much $$$ and energy and then miss what would be a rare opportunity for him to shoot something like a Garand, or whatever other big bore or fancy stuff floats his boat.

Definitely, Spats! Over here there WAS a 22 range with rifles for rent, but it was shuttered some time back.

There's now no structured civilian shooting program here, which is why Appleseed and an MG shoot alike will be novel experiences. Not to worry, I intend to do both.

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50 shooter · January 7, 2018, 12:48 PM

If you do decide to come to SoCal (L.A. area), PM me in advance and I'll do what I can with getting a couple different guys to come out with their .50's. That way you'll have a chance to try out some different types, the M2's in CA have to be semi due to the great firearm laws we have.

We'll bring out some other firearms for you to shoot, if we're going shooting we might as well have some fun right? Should be able to bring out any type of rifle you want to shoot, i.e. Garand, 1903 Springfield, 10/22, AR, AK, Shotgun... is there any type of firearm that you want to try that's not typical? Knowing what you want to try out or shoot would help as guys can ask friends or might know someone that has that type of firearm.

Machineguntony · January 7, 2018, 02:21 PM

As I pack my range bags and deciding what to take to the range, I’m reminded by threads like this that as Americans, we have it good.

T. O'Heir · January 7, 2018, 02:52 PM

"...the fun stuff, like machine guns..." And that is done in Las Vegas, not LA.
https://thegunstorelasvegas.com/
However, I'd suggest you take 50 shooter(nice one). up on his offer. Most North American shooters are just like that. Ready and willing to help a new shooter from anywhere.

Nathan · January 7, 2018, 03:55 PM

I would contact some big name shooting schools like Gunsite and see what they have....looks like you are willing to spend a couple 1000, but would like solid high round count training in exchange.

Aspirant · January 8, 2018, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machineguntony

As I pack my range bags and deciding what to take to the range, I’m reminded by threads like this that as Americans, we have it good.

Definitely. The strongest argument in favour of (and against) gun ownership comes from the actions of gun owners themselves -- I've rarely met a more pleasant crowd than US shooters, and it makes a huge difference.

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Aspirant · January 8, 2018, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50 shooter

If you do decide to come to SoCal (L.A. area), PM me in advance and I'll do what I can with getting a couple different guys to come out with their .50's. That way you'll have a chance to try out some different types, the M2's in CA have to be semi due to the great firearm laws we have.

We'll bring out some other firearms for you to shoot, if we're going shooting we might as well have some fun right? Should be able to bring out any type of rifle you want to shoot, i.e. Garand, 1903 Springfield, 10/22, AR, AK, Shotgun... is there any type of firearm that you want to try that's not typical? Knowing what you want to try out or shoot would help as guys can ask friends or might know someone that has that type of firearm.

That's very kind, 50! Much appreciated

I wish I could say visiting California is likely though, as I've already been there twice -- once to Monterey in 2011 (before I got into shooting) and then Los Angeles in 2015 with my younger brother. Ever been to the Oak Tree Gun Club? I got to try a scoped AR-15 and a Springfield M1A there.

It was before the San Bernardino shooting though, so there was only the bullet button and tiny magazines to deal with.

That said, I'll definitely take up your offer should I go that way again -- after all, I missed a lot of MG goodies in Vegas as my brother and I preferred to work on proficiency first

.

Much thanks!

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50 shooter · January 8, 2018, 01:25 PM

Like I said, PM if you do decide to come to SoCal, my job takes me out of town so I need to know ahead of time. We can set something up so that you and your brother can do some shooting for the day.

If you're going to be in the states for a month, you might look into going to multiple places to shoot. That way you can also do some sightseeing while you're here.

Aspirant · February 26, 2018, 12:25 AM

Ok, I've decided a rough itinerary. I'll be entering and leaving the US from Boston, MA, where I'll be meeting a friend and taking a few tours of the place. Feel free to recommend any ranges nearby, and if you're able to join me

After this I'll be making my way down south to Raleigh, NC to meet more friends I've made on another forum. If there's time I'll pop over to Tennessee; if it's easier to shoot say, .50 BMGs there it might be worth making the time.

After the month is up, I'll get flights back to Boston and return home. Any advice on great newbie-friendly ranges with rental firearms I can check out?

**Aguila Blanca** · February 26, 2018, 06:17 AM

Massachusetts is one of the least gun-friendly states in the U.S. I suppose there must be some public ranges there with rental guns, but whether or not they'll rent to someone on a tourist visa is debatable.

You'll probably have better luck in Connecticut -- which is conveniently on the way to North Carolina.

**Spats McGee** · February 26, 2018, 09:17 AM

AB is right. I haven't visited the northeast in many years, but I do try to keep up on the rough outlines of their gun laws. MA (Massachusetts) is strongly anti-gun. I'd suggest heading on down to CT (Connecticut), or perhaps even PA (Pennsylvania).

Aspirant · February 26, 2018, 10:11 AM

Noted, thanks! My friend's promised to show me around Boston and it's very well-connected so it's a good starting point.

For most of the actual shooting I'll be checking out the options on the way and in NC. I'll try and time it for an Appleseed there too.

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January 5, 2018, 04:23 AM	#1
Aspirant Member Join Date: December 28, 2017 Location: Singapore Posts: 19	Complete novice planning a shooting trip over a month; what to expect? Hi from the gun-controlled paradise of Singapore! Where the trains mostly run on time and the streets are safe even at night, but there's not a gun to be owned, possessed or shot if you aren't in the police or army. (If you are, you train when they say you train, with what you're issued; not a weapon or round more.) That said, in 2015 I visited LA and indulged the shooter in me; but all too quickly I was out of time and money. I aim to visit again before 2020 (I've given myself till the end of the first Trump term), and would love answers to these questions: (1) I'm more interested in learning and becoming proficient with a carbine (AR-type) first, a precision rifle second and a defensive pistol third. Is this a recommended order, if I can only stay for a month on a budget of $5,000? (I'm still saving and God willing, the actual figure will be higher.) (2) I'm used to shooting 5.56 x 45 and 7.62 x 51. Are these good calibres to stick with, or should I experiment with .22 LR or something else? I want to master the fundamentals out to 300 metres and would love recommendations. (3) Would it be possible to stay in one location and have access to a single weapon I can use consistently throughout the month and subsequent visits? I figure that's the closest I can get to a gun I can call my own. As I'm not a US citizen I can't be its legal owner; of course its owner can use it at other times. (4) I'm really new to this and any advice on a state to pick, what to look out for, local laws to observe, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks! I'm well-read on firearms safety and etiquette (I love Colonel Cooper's work), though I welcome any further thoughts you have for a newcomer. Thanks in advance!

January 6, 2018, 09:54 AM	#4
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	Be sure to point out that you're visiting from Singapore. Some state laws (NY comes to mind) may prohibit you from renting or shooting their guns. Welcome to TFL, and enjoy your shooting! __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

January 6, 2018, 10:01 AM	#5
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	+1 for Arizona. Scottsdale Gun Club is excellent. __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

January 6, 2018, 02:14 PM	#6
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	You’re going to come across an ocean and thousands of miles to shoot a 22?! As they say in America, go big or go home. You need to shoot the fun stuff, like machine guns, belt feds, 50 cal rifles, do some extreme long range steel shooting, where you hear the steel hitting, rapid fire a semi auto pistol, etc. You’re going to be here for a short time and you don’t have access to consistent practice afterwards, thus, accept that you aren’t going to be good, and just enjoy the experience for what it is...a vacation fantasy. Which is ok because most of us Americans aren’t as good as we think, either. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

January 7, 2018, 10:00 AM	#7
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	I agree with Machineguntony. You can shoot a LOT of .22 for the same cost as the centerfire calibers, but this trip is about fun, not training. Enjoy the thrill of turning money into recoil. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

January 5, 2018, 11:07 AM	#2
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	.22 is always a good starting point, but you won't be shooting to 300 yards/meters with a .22. For what you describe, I think 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 are good choices, especially since you have some familiarity with both already. My suggestion would be to contact some of the better-known training facilities, such as (but not limited to) Gunsite, and ask about their courses and the possibility of renting a firearm while there. California is very gun-unfriendly, so I would suggest looking at other states, such as Arizona (Gunsite), Nevada, and similar.

January 7, 2018, 10:36 AM	#8
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	I have to disagree with Machineguntony and Spats. Aspirant is going to be visiting (and shooting) for a month. Since he can't shoot big bore stuff where he is, he most likely doesn't have a shoulder that's accustomed to big bore recoil. It would be a serious bummer if he started out on the first day with guns like M1 Garands, Mosin-Nagants, and .50 cal sniper rifles and bruised his shoulder so badly that from thereon even a BB gun would be painful to shoot. My sense is that he's interested in learning how to shoot well at moderate distances. I think that's an admirable goal, and it can be pursued shooting firearms that don't punish the shooter. He can always shoot some elephant guns on his last day, but it would be a shame (IMHO) to compromise the entire month's effort by damaging his shoulder on the first day at the range. Another thought for Aspirant: Appleseed. https://appleseedinfo.org/ There are Appleseed shoots scheduled around the country, every month. If you can tie into one that's near where you'll be staying, it's a great way to learn both marksmanship and some American history. You won't shoot at 300+ yards at an Appleseed, but you'll get a lot better at shooting at 100 yards.

January 7, 2018, 11:35 AM	#10
Aspirant Member Join Date: December 28, 2017 Location: Singapore Posts: 19	Thanks everyone! I'm actually less into recoil tourism as I approached shooting as a necessity, albeit a very badly-taught one where I come from. I was introduced to it as a cadet in my local JROTC version (we call it the National Cadet Corps, or NCC) and later as an Army conscript -- I did VERY badly and could've done with patient training and learning at my own pace, neither of which was available. Basic training isn't interested in mastery, it's a pipeline and their goal is to check off all the boxes and graduate you, not equip you with proficiency. You actually fire only a few rounds at a time under very tightly controlled conditions, and if you don't do well there, tough luck -- and the sergeants rapping your helmet and yelling at you are conscripts like yourself who probably don't know what you're doing wrong. That's what got me interested in the fundamentals first I guess. Appleseed sounds great! I figure once I'm consistently ringing steel at 100 - 300m I can approach automatic weapons, battle rifles and bigger calibres like .50 BMG with confidence. One step at a time That said, Cambodia is MUCH closer by but I'm not confident of the safety and rigour I'll be trained on. It's also not something that's widely promoted so I'll need to dig a bit more before I'm confident enough to head there. The month, in that case, will be two-thirds slow fundamental training and one-third money-into-recoil fun. I'm certainly not missing that grin Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

January 7, 2018, 12:10 PM	#11
Evan Thomas Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2008 Location: Upper midwest Posts: 5,631	I'll add another vote for an Appleseed shoot. They're a great way to learn the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship, and they're fun! The Appleseed folks (at least where I am!) are also a very welcoming community -- if you contact them ahead of time and explain your circumstances, there's a good chance they'll be able to fit you up with equipment, including a rifle; they assume people have their own stuff, but they always bring spares of pretty much everything. You'll also meet some really nice people -- and learn some American history as a bonus! __________________ Never let anything mechanical know you're in a hurry.

January 7, 2018, 12:48 PM	#14
50 shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2002 Location: SoCal PRK Posts: 986	If you do decide to come to SoCal (L.A. area), PM me in advance and I'll do what I can with getting a couple different guys to come out with their .50's. That way you'll have a chance to try out some different types, the M2's in CA have to be semi due to the great firearm laws we have. We'll bring out some other firearms for you to shoot, if we're going shooting we might as well have some fun right? Should be able to bring out any type of rifle you want to shoot, i.e. Garand, 1903 Springfield, 10/22, AR, AK, Shotgun... is there any type of firearm that you want to try that's not typical? Knowing what you want to try out or shoot would help as guys can ask friends or might know someone that has that type of firearm. __________________ I see the world thru bloodshot eyes Streets filled with blood from distant lies The dogs of war never compromise, No time for rearranging.

January 7, 2018, 02:21 PM	#15
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	As I pack my range bags and deciding what to take to the range, I’m reminded by threads like this that as Americans, we have it good. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

January 7, 2018, 02:52 PM	#16
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...the fun stuff, like machine guns..." And that is done in Las Vegas, not LA. https://thegunstorelasvegas.com/ However, I'd suggest you take 50 shooter(nice one). up on his offer. Most North American shooters are just like that. Ready and willing to help a new shooter from anywhere. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 7, 2018, 03:55 PM	#17
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,325	I would contact some big name shooting schools like Gunsite and see what they have....looks like you are willing to spend a couple 1000, but would like solid high round count training in exchange.

January 8, 2018, 01:25 PM	#20
50 shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2002 Location: SoCal PRK Posts: 986	Like I said, PM if you do decide to come to SoCal, my job takes me out of town so I need to know ahead of time. We can set something up so that you and your brother can do some shooting for the day. If you're going to be in the states for a month, you might look into going to multiple places to shoot. That way you can also do some sightseeing while you're here. __________________ I see the world thru bloodshot eyes Streets filled with blood from distant lies The dogs of war never compromise, No time for rearranging.

February 26, 2018, 12:25 AM	#21
Aspirant Member Join Date: December 28, 2017 Location: Singapore Posts: 19	Ok, I've decided a rough itinerary. I'll be entering and leaving the US from Boston, MA, where I'll be meeting a friend and taking a few tours of the place. Feel free to recommend any ranges nearby, and if you're able to join me After this I'll be making my way down south to Raleigh, NC to meet more friends I've made on another forum. If there's time I'll pop over to Tennessee; if it's easier to shoot say, .50 BMGs there it might be worth making the time. After the month is up, I'll get flights back to Boston and return home. Any advice on great newbie-friendly ranges with rental firearms I can check out?

February 26, 2018, 06:17 AM	#22
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	Massachusetts is one of the least gun-friendly states in the U.S. I suppose there must be some public ranges there with rental guns, but whether or not they'll rent to someone on a tourist visa is debatable. You'll probably have better luck in Connecticut -- which is conveniently on the way to North Carolina.

February 26, 2018, 09:17 AM	#23
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	AB is right. I haven't visited the northeast in many years, but I do try to keep up on the rough outlines of their gun laws. MA (Massachusetts) is strongly anti-gun. I'd suggest heading on down to CT (Connecticut), or perhaps even PA (Pennsylvania). __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

February 26, 2018, 10:11 AM	#24
Aspirant Member Join Date: December 28, 2017 Location: Singapore Posts: 19	Noted, thanks! My friend's promised to show me around Boston and it's very well-connected so it's a good starting point. For most of the actual shooting I'll be checking out the options on the way and in NC. I'll try and time it for an Appleseed there too. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk