Winchester White box and semiautomatics

[JohnKSa]

I was thinking about this thread and I finally remembered the one time I was pretty sure I had an issue with WWB. I was firing it in an H&K USP 9mm, a pistol that has only malfunctioned on this particular occasion.

During a range trip, I had two failures to extract out of one box of WWB ammo. I didn't save the cases to check them so I will never know if that particular box had a couple of rounds with out-of-spec rims or if a piece of debris lodged under the extractor temporarily and caused a problem.

[Texas45]

Wont buy it period.
Terrible stuff.
Malfunctions in every semi auto I used it in. Even my HiPoint 40carbine.
SomI simply stay away from it.



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[Chainsaw.]

WWB is often refered to as a standard medium for ammo test, should run fine in most guns, but not all guns, its not all that rare to find a gun that dislikes a certain ammo. Also not knowing the shooter it could be him, perhaps limp wristing, perhaps not.

[straightshooterjake]

On a few occasions, I have encountered pistols that did not like one specific type of ammo, so this situation definitely can occur. However, when I find that a pistol in 9mm or 45 ACP does not like some common type of ball ammo, I am suspicious of the pistol, and it takes a great deal of testing before I would really trust it.

For example, if a pistol has occasional jams with Winchester White Box, but runs fine with other ball ammo, then something about that pistol is just barely within spec to run correctly. I have seen too many pistols run perfectly with every type of ball ammo to think that one that is picky about ammo is totally within specs.

Note that this assessment applies only to 9mm and 45 ACP ball ammo. In 40 S&W, a wider variety of bullet shapes is used, and some guns don't like some of them. And with defensive ammo, the wide range of bullet shapes and load energy can cause issues. But if a 9mm pistol is picky about ball ammo, then I am suspicious of the pistol until it has been
proven for many hundreds of rounds.

[Brutus]

Never had functional problems with WWB but I have noticed varying degrees in accuracy from lot to lot. Usually but it to replenish my brass supply.

[dgludwig]

For example, if a pistol has occasional jams with Winchester White Box, but runs fine with other ball ammo, then something about that pistol is just barely within spec to run correctly. I have seen too many pistols run perfectly with every type of ball ammo to think that one that is picky about ammo is totally within specs.

I agree with this assessment. Too often we blame a certain ammunition for causing malfunctions when the pistol, which seems to function fine with "everything else", is simply running on the edge of its specs, making it very sensitive to the type of ammunition it "likes". Incidences of "limp-wristing", I think, sometimes can be attributed to pistols that are performing at the edges of their "specs".

[Scout]

When I first bought my PX 4 Compact, it would fail to eject every once in a while with white box. Maybe 2 or 3 out 50. After the pistol had broken in with several hundred rounds, it worked well with the white box.

[Snuffy308]

Shoot wwb in many brands and calipers all the time. The last time I had a problem with ammo was with DT 147 jhp 9mm which was out of spec and three times the price.

[CDR_Glock]

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

When you say failure to eject, what does the pistol look like when it malfunctions? A stovepipe or similar?



Maybe if the ammo was very underpowered and the recoil spring on his pistol very stiff he might get such issues. But it should be noticeable.

He had a very strong spring. We replaced it last weekend. His report of FTE was after the spring replacement. I don't know what the failure Rate was before the change. I'm guessing higher.



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[JDBerg]

The only real problem I've had with WWB is with the .40S&W 165gr. Value Pack ammo, this is part of the reason I just never really liked the .40S&W caliber very much, enough problems so that I only have 1 left, my P226. I even had my P226 reworked by my gunsmith to be able to run this ammo properly. This gun now runs great with WWB and everything else you load it with.

[TailGator]

For example, if a pistol has occasional jams with Winchester White Box, but runs fine with other ball ammo, then something about that pistol is just barely within spec to run correctly. I have seen too many pistols run perfectly with every type of ball ammo to think that one that is picky about ammo is totally within specs.

Well said.

@CDR_Glock: I would call that a failure to extract rather than failure to eject, and I thus might be looking at the extractor next. Looks like there might be a little nick on the rim that could have been caused by an extractor slipping off. Or maybe the chamber is really tight? Other folks here are better than me at diagnosis, so maybe they will have some other ideas about what would leave a spent case in that position.

[TunnelRat]

As TailGator said that's a failure to extract.

It could be an issue with the tension on the extractor, or even just a lot of carbon buildup behind the extractor claw (you could try a thorough scrubbing with a brass brush or similar). I'm not aware of the case rims on WWB being thinner, which might cause the extractor claw to not have as good of a grasp on the case. You could try comparing to other spent cases (assuming you kept some) to see if you notice a difference. There is also the possibility I guess of the brass on the case walls being thinner so that the case is expanding more and sticking to the chamber (or a tight chamber as well as TailGator also mentioned). To me if you can upend the pistol and the case falls out or even falls out with a light tap then that's probably not the issue and I'd be wore interested in the extractor tension and geometry of the claw on the case.

At some point you have to consider how important it is to troubleshoot this issue. If the pistol works fine with other brands of ammo one simple response could be use other ammo. If, however, that's a type of ammo your friend typically buys then that might not be so easy. I think you have some ideas on possible things you can check. Another option is assuming your friend bought this pistol new he could call S&W and explain the issue. He might be able to get them to pay to have the pistol shipped to them and they can inspect and adjust as needed. Of course that means being without the pistol for ~ a month.


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[sigarms228]

Back 7-8 years ot so ago WWB used to be my go to practice ammo but I do not purchase it anymore as it seems quality has gone way down since then. Way too many complaints about it. Bruce Gray also will not warranty his work for use with WWB FWIW.

New thread on HK Forum where WWB had a kaboom in a forum members P30. Also read about such with a CZ P07.

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgu...0-blew-up.html

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-ultra-kaboom/

[TunnelRat]

A number of years back here I had some notable issues with WWB. Poorly seated bullets that would thankfully not chamber otherwise it might have been a bad day. Besides that it was dirty as hell.


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[jumpingeezer]

I've shot thousands of rounds through a Beretta 92F without a malfunction. I've heard the horror stories about the ammo malfunctioning in certain pistols, but that has not been my experience.

[Andy Blozinski]

Flat nosed Winchesters didn't work well in my wife's Sig P238. First round always messed up, unless we loaded one less round.

[smee78]

Just like K Mac, I have shot thousands of WWB 9mm rounds through my guns and no problems.

[tipoc]

I said earlier that I've had no generalized problems with WWB ammo in any caliber that would cause me to hesitate to buy it or not recommend it.

But I usually do look closely at the Win. "Value Pac" ammo. That's the 100 or 250 round boxes. The ammo suspiciously looks like the stuff that they swept up off the floor. The bullets often have dings, bullet setback, etc. Line up the rounds side by side and see how many different OAL rounds you have.

I usually treat it carefully but shoot it anyway.

Like I said never an issue with the standard White Box ammo.

Oh and if the fella has an issue with WWB not working in his piece while others do...well the solution is obvious and simple.

tipoc

[PlatinumCore16]

Actually had no issues with the WWB, but I did have FTE in the box of Federal I bought. Which is weird because I haven't had issues in the past. I'm thinking it might have been a bad batch. More testing is needed.

[otasan]

Works flawlessly in my Glock 17.

[CDR_Glock]

Well my friend has 500 rounds I believe now. He did change the spring to a 15#. It has been flawless with the WWB.

I just put 150 rounds through my Glock without a problem, either.


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