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Old October 26, 2005, 06:09 AM   #26
goalie
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There is also a significant difference between a texas deer and a manitoba or northern minnesota deer. We routinely see deer in the 250 pound class in minnesota, and three hundred pounders are not uncommon and I have seen a few that went over four hundred on the hoof, ( a field dressed deer that has had the head removed for taxidermy and still weighs over 340 pounds is more than likely a 400 pound deer on the hoof.)
+1 ......
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Old October 26, 2005, 01:01 PM   #27
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A 150 pound white tail is a big deer in my neck of the woods.
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Old October 26, 2005, 06:39 PM   #28
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I don't know how to feel about this. Personally I love my 243. I shoot it with varmint loads (50 and 70gr NBT) and it shoots great. I have taken little ground critters out to 700ish yrds. FUN FUN!
My problem is that you may top out at 100gr loads that may give you 1100 ft/lbs at 300 yds under ideal circumstances. If you keep it under 200yds I guess it is fine. When I used to live in N Wis(BIG DEER, ( fast corn fed cows)), no problem since I didn't see much area that I could take shots over 100ydrs much less 200. Now out in the great state of Colorado(Which doesn't have the tribal gaming problems Wis has ) Shots can be much further out. And the game out here require larger caliber. My minimum big game caliber out here is 30-06.
My 2 cents
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Old October 28, 2005, 04:58 PM   #29
Jack O'Conner
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The debate was started half century ago by the same writers who wanted the 250 Savage and 257 Roberts to go away. These guys felt it was 30-06 or nothing for all big game hunting.

These writers could not conceive the idea of a rifle for long shots at pronghorned antelope and yet another rifle for elk. Still another short carbine for timber and foothill country. It was one rifle for all or nothing.

As a .243 owner for nearly 40 years, I'm certain the long shots I've successfully made actually killed these animals. My bullets did not bounce off or wound these critters.

The advent of Premium bullets a few years ago has truely upped the lethality of this cartridge. No muley can stand up to a well placed 95 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip or a 100 grain Nosler Partition. Yes, even a 300 pound buck will topple over quickly after this high speed and tissue destroying bullet enters his chest.

I'm certain that the 30-06 or nothing guys will never agree with me and that is their option. I'd rather seek subjects that unit us as hunters instead of dividing us.
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Old October 28, 2005, 05:04 PM   #30
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Guess I have to add my 270 in there also.
Yes I agree that a 243 at less then 200 yrds for whitetail or smaller animal(this caliber would be great for antelope). But at anything over 150-200 yrds I go bigger.
243 with a 50 gr load for ground critters and varm's can't be beat though!
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Old October 29, 2005, 02:08 PM   #31
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JOC +1 , Buuuuut any excuse to buy another gun is good enough for me Lol
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Old October 29, 2005, 08:30 PM   #32
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"...that he is a hinderpipe..." Who doesn't shoot regularly. High priced premium bullets aren't required. Shot placement with any calibre is essential. Premium bullets do squat if they're not placed correctly.
"...going to get his elk this year with a 22-250..." He's nuts and will lose the elk. Even with the best premium bullet there is. The .22-250 isn't made for the deep penetration required on a 600 to 1,000 pound animal. Mind you, he may find that using a .22 cal on elk is illegal anyway.
"...I went to it and it got back up..." Wait the 30 minutes or just run to the beast? In any case, it's not unusual for a shot animal to get up again after being shot with any calibre. Even with a very well placed shot.
.243? Wouldn't think twice about using mine with regular 105 grain SP's for anything up to black bears. Too light for moose or elk though.
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Old November 4, 2005, 08:02 AM   #33
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I'm certain that many guys look at the rather small-ish 95 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet and say, "That is too small for deer hunting". For some reason, many guys do not realize that the wound channel caused by this high speed bullet is much larger than the bullet diameter would suggest.

The bullet is .243 diameter as it zooms toward its destination. But once it strikes, the diameter of the wound channel is far larger. This is why we continue to kill even big 300 lb mulies with ease. FACT: No deer can remain on its feet very long after this deadly bullet tears through its chest.
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Old November 5, 2005, 01:03 AM   #34
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Jack I guess I can't fault your logic as I agree that shot placement is the key to every clean kill but as we all know, sometimes people take shots that some might call questionable. You have to admit that a heavier caliber at longer ranges would be preferable. Yes?
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Old November 5, 2005, 06:28 AM   #35
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Shot 24:
Actually, we own several hunting rifles. I use our .243 primarily for antelope but my eldest daughter and nephews have toppled many mulies with it as well. Even a really big muley is not armor-plated. His hide and ribs are no match for a good bullet. I feel that the .243 is an excellent deer cartridge that has become even more lethal with the advent of Premium bullets. Black Hills Ammo offers a box of super accurate 95 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip cartridges for about $20.00.

I have no quarrel with a mule deer hunter who chooses a heavier cartridge. My Dad always hunted with his 300 Savage.

My longest shot ever with our .243 rifle was about 340 yards or so. The buck was unaware and calm when my 80 grain Sierra Pro Hunter bullet slammed into his ribs. This antelope toppled over right there on the spot. The bullet broke a rib going in and tore a wide channel across the top of the heart. Both lungs were deflated and damaged. Bullet performance was noteworthy. I'm certain a 257 Weatherby magnum would not perform any better under these conditions. After all, dead-in-its-tracks is about as good as it gets.

Elk and red stag are different animals altogether. Most hunters would agree a heavier bullet is needed. My wife has done well with her custom 6.5mm Swede and 140 grain Nosler Partitions. I prefer .308 and 180's. My brother has had great success with his 30-06; his wife has killed many elk with her 7mm-08. Our Dad (deceased 2004) killed dozens of elk with his 300 Savage lever action rifle. Grandad (deceased 1973) hunted and killed even more elk with his Winchester 95 in 30-40 Krag. In summary, our family has put many Wyoming elk down with a variety of rifles and cartridges. Within our family, elk meat is cherished.

I'm of the opinion that our world has many great hunting cartridges. Within their limitations a person can be quite successfull in the field. It still comes down to placing a good bullet into the chest so that both lungs and (or) major blood carrying arteries are damaged.
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Old November 5, 2005, 12:21 PM   #36
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2 points Jack.
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Old November 7, 2005, 01:30 AM   #37
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.243 debate??????I thought that question got answered by the .260 Rem.
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Old November 8, 2005, 02:17 AM   #38
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Screw the Cartridge!

It is the shooter that makes the shot connect.

Guns and Ballistics can't make magic out of a bad shot.

Better to shot a brick of .22 a week than expect Magic from a Weatherby super Magnum.
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Old November 8, 2005, 02:29 AM   #39
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...assuming it is used properly. It is not a 300yd deer gun.

How about a very good shooter...

At 100 yards...

5 rounds of .243 in the "boileroom"...

In about a "pie-plate" group...

Last 4 of those rounds at a now running buck...

Buck travels at least 200 yards...

True Story

Woman shooter...

Several witnesses.


Is that "used properly"??

If it ain't a 300 yard deer cartridge... Why use it?
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Old November 8, 2005, 10:26 AM   #40
Art Eatman
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Because, Pointer, probably 90% of all deer made into supper are killed inside of 100 yards.

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Old November 8, 2005, 01:57 PM   #41
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ART

Touche!

But probably 90% of the really big trophy's are taken at well over 150 yards...

And, the average .243 shooter is NOT going to hold off and watch that once-in-a-lifetime-buck slip back into the brush 250 yards out!
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Old November 8, 2005, 05:38 PM   #42
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First I like the 243. Heck, I killed two deer Friday (11-04-05) with one. The problem I am haveing with it is they are not being anchored with it. The first deer (a small Doe) was shot at 15 yards with Winchester 95 gr. Ballistic Silver Tips, the shot was placed just behind the shoulder. This deer ran over 100 yards thru the woods and jumped a creek. When found part of lung was hanging out of the exit hole. The Second deer (spiked Buck) was shot at 45 yards with 100 gr. Horandy light mags BTSP. This deer shot in the same place, just behind the shoulder, dropped right there. Also on friday, I shot a Third deer (Doe) at 120 yards with the Hornady round, hit this one behind shoulder, she jumped when hit and ran off to not be found. After losing this deer after a good hit I went to a 308. I hear people talking about shot placement which is important, but with good shot placement I have had two out of three run off.
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Old November 8, 2005, 06:06 PM   #43
Art Eatman
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Pointer, you shoot him in the white spot, and a .243 is plenty good. That's why God put a neck on a deer: To give me something to break.

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Old November 8, 2005, 06:27 PM   #44
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I used a .243 for years before I went on to the 7mag and the 7STW (for better ballistics in long range shooting). The .243 is not underpowered. With the correct bullets, it will punch through the shoulder out to at least 300 yards from my experience. I've shot approximately 40 deer and helped claim twice more of that. I've actually seen deer gut shot with the .243 fold up due to the use of the lighter more expansive bullets that have fragmented into vital areas. I've seen A LOT more deer run away from a bad shot using heavier calibers and/or premium bullets.

I can't remember the time I saw a whitetail lost due to lack of penetration (.243 on up) I've seen a lot lost due to poor shot placement and several lost due to marginal shots made with bonded or solid bullets. In my experience stronger bullet design penetrates perfectly, but hasn't been able to cause the amount of vital tissue damage that conventional bullets have been capable of. The purpose of the bullet is to disrupt vital tissue. A good shot will do this despite the bullet design. An explosive bullet will maximize the effect in most cases, but waste meat. Pick your application wisely based on your game and level of skill (which will not always result in a "premium" loading).
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Old November 9, 2005, 01:12 AM   #45
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ART

You're an uncommon shooter...
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Old November 9, 2005, 07:02 PM   #46
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Pointer, if there's anything I hated as a kid, it was any lack of respect from my father and my uncle, about shooting.

I was riding in with my uncle in his jeep, one day, and he locked up and slid to a stop, grabbed his rifle, and shot a buck as it jumped the fence some 100 yards or so in front of us. Broke the buck's neck in mid-jump. I hadn't even spotted the buck. I still remember a comment about the "old days" and iron sighted 03s: "When I was your age, anything inside of 300 yards, I owned it."

My father was a guy whose attitude was, "Aw, I'll break his neck, from here." and often proceeded to do so, offhand, in front of witnesses. Me for one; I watched him nail the white spot at 250 yards. Others reported distances out to 400 or more, at one time or another.

You think that won't make you learn to concentrate? To practice? To study and think about shooting? I maybe wasn't a natural, but I danged sure worked at it.

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Old November 9, 2005, 08:15 PM   #47
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if you dont shoot it in the a** it isnt going to run
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Old November 9, 2005, 09:25 PM   #48
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Well Kirby, do me a favor and kindly inform these Nebraska deer that they aren't ever supposed to run after a non-hindquarter shot.

I guess that the reason I want to shoot a larger caliber than the .243 has to do with those times that I pull the shot or screw up in some other manner. A deer that is gut-shot with, say, a .30-06 seems to, in general, drop a lot more quickly than a deer that is gut-shot with a .243.

Not that I've ever screwed up and gut-shot a deer....

Last edited by Fremmer; November 9, 2005 at 09:32 PM. Reason: didn't want it to seem like I'm slammin' Kirby!
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Old November 10, 2005, 01:31 AM   #49
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I watched him nail the white spot at 250 yards. Others reported distances out to 400 or more, at one time or another.


I don't doubt this for a minute!

I have seen some shooting most wouldn't believe to be within the realm of human possiblity! I would be accused of BS if I were to tell the stories on this thread... so I don't.

White-spot shooters are "uncommon" shooters...
Only uncommon shooters have my permission to use a .243...

Very pleased to know that you know better... 03, 06, etc.
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Old November 10, 2005, 09:28 AM   #50
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Fremmer, I've pretty much always used my '06 when walking-hunting, doing the cross-country thing. High odds of jumping a buck and having to shoot him on the run. Like you, I've always figured that I could probably cure a bad hit with an '06 easier than with a lesser cartridge.

I've generally been lucky on running deer. I did hit one buck's spine just back of the shoulders, though, and had to use a second shot. Weird deal: When I walked up to him, he was up on his front legs. Made a sort of bellowing or roaring sound, and really threatened me with his horns. Didn't do him any good, of course.

But, just meddling around where I figured more on up close and personal, or just sitting and staring at an area where calm deer and shorter ranges were likely, the .243 works just fine.

"Situational choice", I reckon.

Heck, the last year or two before we lost our old deer lease near Uvalde, I got where I was walking up on sleeping bucks at mid-day. Ten, fifteen yards. Figured I oughta switch to a pistol. The last mule deer I killed, I walked up out of a rocky creek bottom and saw him at maybe 25 or 30 yards. I about halfway apologized to him for using a rifle. Shameful.

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