It's NOT the gun STUPID!!!!!!

Joey · October 31, 1999, 04:22 PM

(WARNING a tad gory)
I work with two guys who went Elk hunting for the first time last week. They were about 175 yards from what was discribed as a humgus elk with a big frigging rack, so it was probibly a cow they saw. Anyway the guy with the rifle, a borrowed Ruger 300 win mag (never shot the rifle before) touched off one round and gut shot the elk. Then as he touched off a second one he hit the elk in the jaw. All they found was lots of blood and the bottom jaw bone.
Tracked the Elk for 2-300 yards before it got dark and had to give up. Next day they track for about 1 hour but give up as they are tired of walking (STUPID JERKS!!!)

Now they are blaming a borrowed rifle they NEVER shot before as the cause of their falure. The stupid JERKS can not understand how it could possibly be their fault and now they want to borrow a 338 win mag as it's bigger than the "wimpy" 300 win mag. When I tried talking to them they just kept blaming it on the rifle cuz it did not shoot where it was pointed!!!!

I'm not a hunter (yet) but does it really take a brain surgon to figgure this out????

Al Thompson · October 31, 1999, 07:57 PM

This hopefully is a spoof or troll..

Otherwise, get the hell away from slob hunters like that. This is indicative of problems to come.....

Not sure where, but some fish and game departmets have rules about "wasting game". (Montana?) If it were I, my local enforcement agent and I would be talking..

Giz (sick and disgusted)

Joey · October 31, 1999, 09:04 PM

It's no spoof and last time I checked I'm no troll........This is the story as I was told...Believe it or not Me no care!!!!!!!

Do you think Really THINK I'm stupid enough to go hunting with this kind of LOOSER...I'm forced to work with them not hunt/live with/like them,

GIVE me a break!!!!!!

Al Thompson · November 1, 1999, 06:25 PM

I apologize Joey - I was thinking of the guys who told you the story.. I did not mean that *you* were the troll - but I see how my remarks look.

I would do what I can to make life miserable for slob hunters like that though.

Heck, give me their snail mail address, and I'll send them a nasty gram.

Giz

Joey · November 1, 1999, 07:08 PM

Not a problem, I was still ticked off at the jerks when reading you reply and quite possible overacted

Since I have to work with them I've started caling them "Ammo Bearers" cuz if I ever need any extra ammo I'll just shoot them and use their ammo instead of wasting it

DC · November 1, 1999, 09:41 PM

Hey Joey...

These guys are morons and trouble is stalking them. When you have 2 guys that stupid and who hang together, you know they will touch off a S____storm. Stay away from them, don't even have a beer with 'em after work.

Darwin smells them

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

Long Path · November 1, 1999, 09:47 PM

Best thing is just to try to educate them on the concepts of hunting-- that fair chase involves concern for the game. That you NEVER hunt with a rifle you have never shot.

Some people just don't know this. If you can keep from throwing up (may I suggest an empty stomach?), this could be a worthwhile time spent. On the other hand, I can understand how it would be hard to even stand their company. But you would be doing all hunters everywhere a favor.

Hope that poor beast died quickly.

2tapcm · November 2, 1999, 12:15 PM

Yeah, thats it. A larger caliber will make up for intellectual and ethical bankruptcy!

Long Path has the right idea but unfortunately it sounds like these slobs are the perfect examples that anti-hunting groups put the spotlight on.

I have a lost game story of my own I will post in a separate thread.

Ankeny · November 3, 1999, 10:04 PM

Joey:

Well...I found my elk. The story is in with the Lost Deer thread.

Unfortunately, the type of thing you describe happens all too often. I find it hard to believe that the guys went back the next day to attempt to recover the animal, unless they wanted the cape and rack.

In Wyoming, they would have broken no laws at all. The law only requires a reasonable effort be made. In fact, they could have assumed a miss and walked away and not have been in violation.

As for magnum rifles, I have seen several instances where a marginal hit with a magnum has resulted in recovery of game where the same hit with an inadequate firearm would have most likely resulted in a lost animal. Magnums are for use on large animals by experienced hunters and riflemen who can handle them. I like my magnum as insurance in case I wiggle a bit, the animal steps forward, or that little imperceptible cross wind blows across the canyon.

A good friend of mine shot a 350 class bull elk with his .257 Roberts and he lost the critter. This guy is a licensed outfitter and former Dept. of Ag. government trapper. Hmmmm...sounds like a topic for another thread. In his case it might have been the gun stoopid...

Long Path · November 4, 1999, 01:01 AM

Ankeny--

Absolutely NOT the gun's fault. Your friend blew it, plain and simple! I love the .257 Rbts. I've shot a lot of deer with it, and do consider it adequate for elk... within very specific parameters!!!

The fact is, the lower the power, the more carefully the shot must be placed to make a CERTAIN kill shot. The longer the range, the lower the power. At 300 yards, a .257 Rbts has less than 1000 foot-lbs of energy retained. At 350, the drop is about a foot, given 3" high at a hundred. This is absolutely marginal for DEER, and elk are considerably tougher.

I've made a 300 yard shot with .257 Rbts on a bigger whitetail, and it all worked out okay. I've seen still longer shots made with it... ON DEER! In open countryside! Over known distances, with good rests, with no breeze!

Your friend misapplied his tool. Sorry to say it, but every once in a while, we all overstep our abilities. Sounds like your friend is so able, he forgot that, although it could technically have been done, his feat of marksmanship would have been a stunt with that rifle.

###

I was one of a couple of hunters that lost our hunting privelidges to a ranch for chastizing (politely, but stridently) the friends of the landowner's sons for trying to hunt deer with a .220 Swift with 40 grain bullets loaded up beyond 4000 fps. Later that same day, they almost lost a deer that had a shoulder blown off by one of the hyper-expansive, non-penetrative varminter bullet. (A friend with a .30-06 saved the day...) I regret having lost the priveledge to hunt that ranch, but don't regret stressing that good sportsmen have respect for their game. (We were begging them to use our rifles, and offered to let them use our primary rifles while we quit hunting for the day, if only they would not shoot some poor deer with that prairie dog rifle.)

------------------
Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?

Matt

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited November 04, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited November 05, 1999).]

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October 31, 1999, 04:22 PM	#1
Joey Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 1999 Posts: 437	(WARNING a tad gory) I work with two guys who went Elk hunting for the first time last week. They were about 175 yards from what was discribed as a humgus elk with a big frigging rack, so it was probibly a cow they saw. Anyway the guy with the rifle, a borrowed Ruger 300 win mag (never shot the rifle before) touched off one round and gut shot the elk. Then as he touched off a second one he hit the elk in the jaw. All they found was lots of blood and the bottom jaw bone. Tracked the Elk for 2-300 yards before it got dark and had to give up. Next day they track for about 1 hour but give up as they are tired of walking (STUPID JERKS!!!) Now they are blaming a borrowed rifle they NEVER shot before as the cause of their falure. The stupid JERKS can not understand how it could possibly be their fault and now they want to borrow a 338 win mag as it's bigger than the "wimpy" 300 win mag. When I tried talking to them they just kept blaming it on the rifle cuz it did not shoot where it was pointed!!!! I'm not a hunter (yet) but does it really take a brain surgon to figgure this out????

October 31, 1999, 07:57 PM	#2
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	This hopefully is a spoof or troll.. Otherwise, get the hell away from slob hunters like that. This is indicative of problems to come..... Not sure where, but some fish and game departmets have rules about "wasting game". (Montana?) If it were I, my local enforcement agent and I would be talking.. Giz (sick and disgusted)

October 31, 1999, 09:04 PM	#3
Joey Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 1999 Posts: 437	It's no spoof and last time I checked I'm no troll........This is the story as I was told...Believe it or not Me no care!!!!!!! Do you think Really THINK I'm stupid enough to go hunting with this kind of LOOSER...I'm forced to work with them not hunt/live with/like them, GIVE me a break!!!!!!

November 1, 1999, 06:25 PM	#4
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	I apologize Joey - I was thinking of the guys who told you the story.. I did not mean that you were the troll - but I see how my remarks look. I would do what I can to make life miserable for slob hunters like that though. Heck, give me their snail mail address, and I'll send them a nasty gram. Giz

November 1, 1999, 07:08 PM	#5
Joey Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 1999 Posts: 437	Not a problem, I was still ticked off at the jerks when reading you reply and quite possible overacted Since I have to work with them I've started caling them "Ammo Bearers" cuz if I ever need any extra ammo I'll just shoot them and use their ammo instead of wasting it

November 1, 1999, 09:41 PM	#6
DC Moderator Emeritus Join Date: September 30, 1998 Location: Calif Posts: 4,229	Hey Joey... These guys are morons and trouble is stalking them. When you have 2 guys that stupid and who hang together, you know they will touch off a S____storm. Stay away from them, don't even have a beer with 'em after work. Darwin smells them ------------------ "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

November 1, 1999, 09:47 PM	#7
Long Path Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: N. Texas Posts: 5,899	Best thing is just to try to educate them on the concepts of hunting-- that fair chase involves concern for the game. That you NEVER hunt with a rifle you have never shot. Some people just don't know this. If you can keep from throwing up (may I suggest an empty stomach?), this could be a worthwhile time spent. On the other hand, I can understand how it would be hard to even stand their company. But you would be doing all hunters everywhere a favor. Hope that poor beast died quickly.

November 2, 1999, 12:15 PM	#8
2tapcm Member Join Date: October 8, 1999 Location: Milford, MI USA Posts: 66	Yeah, thats it. A larger caliber will make up for intellectual and ethical bankruptcy! Long Path has the right idea but unfortunately it sounds like these slobs are the perfect examples that anti-hunting groups put the spotlight on. I have a lost game story of my own I will post in a separate thread.

November 3, 1999, 10:04 PM	#9
Ankeny Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 1998 Location: Shoshoni, WY USA Posts: 556	Joey: Well...I found my elk. The story is in with the Lost Deer thread. Unfortunately, the type of thing you describe happens all too often. I find it hard to believe that the guys went back the next day to attempt to recover the animal, unless they wanted the cape and rack. In Wyoming, they would have broken no laws at all. The law only requires a reasonable effort be made. In fact, they could have assumed a miss and walked away and not have been in violation. As for magnum rifles, I have seen several instances where a marginal hit with a magnum has resulted in recovery of game where the same hit with an inadequate firearm would have most likely resulted in a lost animal. Magnums are for use on large animals by experienced hunters and riflemen who can handle them. I like my magnum as insurance in case I wiggle a bit, the animal steps forward, or that little imperceptible cross wind blows across the canyon. A good friend of mine shot a 350 class bull elk with his .257 Roberts and he lost the critter. This guy is a licensed outfitter and former Dept. of Ag. government trapper. Hmmmm...sounds like a topic for another thread. In his case it might have been the gun stoopid...

November 4, 1999, 01:01 AM	#10
Long Path Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: N. Texas Posts: 5,899	Ankeny-- Absolutely NOT the gun's fault. Your friend blew it, plain and simple! I love the .257 Rbts. I've shot a lot of deer with it, and do consider it adequate for elk... within very specific parameters!!! The fact is, the lower the power, the more carefully the shot must be placed to make a CERTAIN kill shot. The longer the range, the lower the power. At 300 yards, a .257 Rbts has less than 1000 foot-lbs of energy retained. At 350, the drop is about a foot, given 3" high at a hundred. This is absolutely marginal for DEER, and elk are considerably tougher. I've made a 300 yard shot with .257 Rbts on a bigger whitetail, and it all worked out okay. I've seen still longer shots made with it... ON DEER! In open countryside! Over known distances, with good rests, with no breeze! Your friend misapplied his tool. Sorry to say it, but every once in a while, we all overstep our abilities. Sounds like your friend is so able, he forgot that, although it could technically have been done, his feat of marksmanship would have been a stunt with that rifle. ### I was one of a couple of hunters that lost our hunting privelidges to a ranch for chastizing (politely, but stridently) the friends of the landowner's sons for trying to hunt deer with a .220 Swift with 40 grain bullets loaded up beyond 4000 fps. Later that same day, they almost lost a deer that had a shoulder blown off by one of the hyper-expansive, non-penetrative varminter bullet. (A friend with a .30-06 saved the day...) I regret having lost the priveledge to hunt that ranch, but don't regret stressing that good sportsmen have respect for their game. (We were begging them to use our rifles, and offered to let them use our primary rifles while we quit hunting for the day, if only they would not shoot some poor deer with that prairie dog rifle.) ------------------ Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap? Matt [This message has been edited by Long Path (edited November 04, 1999).] [This message has been edited by Long Path (edited November 05, 1999).]