Holy Rust, Batman!

[JarYetz]

Hey folks! Whew, been a while since I've been on this part of the forum.

Anyway, been a while since I shot my BP pistols, too. Got em out the other day, and they had collected some rust. Its not terribly bad, but its there around the cylinders and the pins. I was pretty upset, like:

So I spent a good 3 hours cleaning them up, and then I oiled em down real good, on account of I won't be shooting them anytime soon.

Anyway, checked again a couple days later and...they appear to be collecting more rust.

Anyone have any advice to get rid of the rust and keep it off?

[grumpa72]

I use a product called PreLube 6, which is a product I use on the iron/steel components in a classic car that I have. It is a long lasting surface protectant and others have said it is similar to an industrial version of WD40 but with the hype.

http://www.quantaproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=05-10

I keep two cans of it in my garage/workshop.

[mete]

Use hot , soapy water and scrub with a brush .Rinse with very hot or boiling water .Let dry and while still hot apply a good rust preservative .I still have some now discontinued RIG which works well. Put in rust inhibiting paper .

[madcratebuilder]

Eezox is an excellent rust preventive, also excellent at removing rust along with 0000 steel or brass wool.

[fastforty]

I'd boil the crap out of them ("crap" being all of the stuff that is embedded in the microscopic pores of the metal that is causing the rust to return). Petroleum based lubricants can seal the crud into the pores, especially if they were fired after applying it.

The first time that my brother & I shot our new Remmies we couldn't bring ourselves to use the soap & water technique. I mean, putting water on a gun was against everything we had ever known. Scrubbed the heck out of them with Hoppes, rinsed & repeated until they were *clean* and applied petro-based lube. A week later, they were rusting so we rinsed and repeated and greased the dang things. After returning home, mine started rusting a third time so I broke down and boiled it out. The rust stopped. The next time I saw my bro, he said he had gotten tired of cleaning his over & over again and the rust would *not* stop. In fact, you could barely shine light through the barrel it was so bad.

[kwhi43]

Boy, I don't know about you all. I've been shoot BP revolvers for over 40 years. Never have I had any rust. I clean mine at the range with windshield
wiper cleaner, the blue stuff. Just wipe it out. Takes less than 5 min. I then
dry and lube with WD-40. I got one high dollar Rem. 800.00 and that's how I
clean it. Never Never any rust. All my Black Powder guns are cleaned this way. You don't ever want to put any soap or hot water on a BP gun. If you do, it will RUST! And if any of you are using a BP subistute like "Pryodex"
Stop it now! Use Black Powder. Stop ruining your guns.

[Tom2]

Just let it take its natural course and clean it ever so often. Eventually it will take on that nice brown/worn off blue patina of an old original working gun like the collectors love! Just as long as the bore stays nice and shootable. Those old guns did not get that antique appearance by being babied. Just do not let it run away out of control so the thing gets all ate up!

[olyinaz]

Buy some Ballistol. Use it mixed with water for cleaning them (it neutralizes the corrosive salts that are giving you a hard time) and then brush 'em down with it straight for preservation. It was good enough for the Imperial and Nazi German army - it'll be good enough for you!

Dutch dude in the C&R forum turned me on to this stuff a while back and I can't believe we Americans have been daft to it for so long. It's amazing stuff.

Oly

[Model-P]

kwhi,
Isn't water the base constituent in windshield washer solution? Why wouldn't it be just as likely to cause rust as water itself would?

On a silmilar note, I've heard of guys using Windex, but I always heard that ammonia is better to leave out of a bore unless needed to cut copper fouling. Isn't ammonia more likely to cause rusting or steel etching than just plain water?

Been wondering this for a long time.
Thanks.

[Major 2]

35 Years of Hot soapy water and rinse with hot water the liberal spraying with WD40..followed by Gibbs for the lube.
I use/have used a dab of anti-seize compound (auto stores) on the base pins.
No issue with rust...suggest you pull the nipples when you clean and a minute dab of the anti-seize paste here to

Ballistol is also good...just harder to find in my area ( without mail ordering $$$ )

[robhof]

Ammonia is a fairly strong base, but the only problems I've heard of, is weakining brass cartridges. Anything water based left too long will encourage rust.

[Hawg]

You don't ever want to put any soap or hot water on a BP gun. If you do, it will RUST! And if any of you are using a BP subistute like "Pryodex"
Stop it now! Use Black Powder. Stop ruining your guns.

I use Pyrodex and i've always cleaned with hot soapy water. No rust. Spray insides with WD-40 and whatever is available for external use. Bores and chambers get Bore Butter.

[Candiru]

Although I've only shot my BP revolver twice, I used the same cleaning method both times and have yet to encounter rust. What I did was get a tub and fill it halfway with hot water, then dump in an entire kettle of boiling water and a small amount of dish soap. The gun would be detail stripped and dumped in, then scrubbed thoroughly.

Even with thick dish gloves on, I could only keep my hands in there for a minute or two at a time. The upside of this is that the metal heats up so hot that it evaporates all the water off within seconds of coming out, although some of the crevices need a bit of attention. Only a small amount of soap is necessary to help break up fouling and dissolve oil and grease. By using just a teensy bit of soap, you don't have to rinse.

I finish up by wiping everything down with some olive oil and greasing where necessary with a bit of Crisco. I may cut some of the Crisco with oil in order to soften it up a bit, though.

This regimen takes time, but thus far appears to prevent rust. It probably also helps that the gun lives in a dehumidified safe.

[KevinBeyerJr]

Grumpa72:
It is a long lasting surface protectant and others have said it is similar to an industrial version of WD40 but with the hype.

I used to work at a QA/Gauge Making department at a local pipe yard and there was a study, (multi-million dollar company wishing to burn some money and man hours?) but overall they determined that WD-40, over a long period of time adds to the rust and tends to stick. What we used on our gauges and anything steel that we needed it for was a Machining grade lubricant called LPS-2. It worked really well and over the 2 years that I worked in the shop, we never had any issues with anything that we put it on. I don't know how it would fare with guns, and I don't have a test subject for it either, so I don't wish to find out.

[thallub]

Mike Venturino, former blackpowder editor for Shooting Times magazine, got me onto Windex with vinegar many years ago. It works great. My BP guns are cleaned and lubed in less than 5 minutes. Nothing cleans an inline breech plug as well. Windex with vinegar is now called Windex Multi-Task.

The CAS guys use it too:

http://www.curtrich.com/frontiersmen3.html

CLEANING:
After each stage wipe off the front of the cylinder and the hammer, hammer notch, and nipples with a shop towel. If fouling around the hammer is dry and crusty, then use a shop towel wetted with Windex with Vinegar and water. If, using American Pioneer Powder, Pinnacle, or 777, you need bore cleaning between stages, something is wrong.

At the end of the day take the cylinder out. Spray it with Windex with Vinegar. Clean the nipple area with the toothbrush. Personally, I never remove the nipples. Instead I clean the outside of the nipples with the toothbrush, then turn them 180° with a nipple wrench and repeat, then retighten. Don't lube the cylinder. It's stainless. Dry it. Toothbrush fouling off the frame after dousing with Windex/vinegar. Clean and lube the base pin with lubricant of choice. Run a Bore Snake through the bore (Windex on front end, lubricant on back end). Lube with lubricant of choice. Reassemble.

LUBRICANTS:
While proponents of wholly black praise Ballistol for lubricant, it isn't necessary for the substitutes. I use Break Free CLP. Rowdy Yates and Cole Younger use Tri-Flo. I've used Rem Oil successfully. Currently I'm testing the military's lube (mini-guns, chain guns, machine guns), TW25B. All of these work.

[darkgael]

Windex works. It works because it is mostly water, 90-95%. The rest is alcohol, glycol, and ammonia. Ammonia is a detergent, though not a soap.
I use liquid dish soap and water on all of my BP guns. No rust ever.
Pete

[steelman762]

I can shure understand your fustration. Those revolvers are time consuming to clean. You have to take them all apart. Scrub with hot water and detergent. Pull all the nipples out soak parts in hot soap and water. Dry them. I use compressed air to blow out the cylander,frame and barrel. Then I let the parts sit for a day or two to see if I missed anything looking for rust. I put the nipples back with a little anti-seze compound so they wont rust in the threads. I then put little gun oil on all the blued parts. I then reassemble and use compressed air to push any excess oil out. Before I used the revolver again I remove the cylander and clean the gun oil out of it. Now I know why there are so few original revolvers existing. No one would take the time to clean them that thoroughly.

[craiso]

Thallub,

What parts are you using the TW25B on? I love the stuff on my autoloaders and have plenty of it.

Many thanks.

[Hardcase]

I guess that I must be benefiting from the desert climate here in (currently not so) Sunny Southern Idaho. I don't do any heroic cleaning of my black powder revolvers, other than to give the removable parts a good dunk in a pot of boiling water and sluice down the bore with the same water using a turkey baster. The rest of the frame gets a good rubdown with a wet rag dunked in the pot and after I make sure that everything is dry, a coat of Rem Oil or CLP, whichever one happens to be closer to my fingers at the time.

In the winter, the relative humidity is around 50%, but when it gets warm, if it's above 25%, it's unusual.

Never a rust problem (knock on wood).

[ClemBert]

JarYetz,

You never told us your process to clean, dry and oil (type of cleaning agent/oil). It is kind of hard for us to diagnose the problem when you leave out all the details.

Since everyone is volunteering their process I may as well throw mine in the mix.

1. Disassemble major components (i.e. grips, cylinder, barrel, nipples)
2. Hot water with a bit of liquid dish soap. No grips in water...duh!
3. Scrub all parts as necessary to get the crud off.
4. Rinse in super hot water and quickly hand dry.
5. Bake in oven at 175 degrees for 20 minutes then let cool for 20 minutes in oven.
6. Blast the the inner clock works with WD-40 and any crevice to displace water if any is left.
7. Wipe off excess WD-40 and oil rest of components with Rem Oil or equivalent.
8. Anti-seize grease on nipple threads.
9. Final assembly of firearm.
10. Final wipe down to get the fingerprints off and tuck it into bed in the gun safe.

[darkgael]

Might as well add another POV. I'm a lot lazier than Clem, though I have seen that kind of thorough cleaning recommended before.
I do not disassemble the gun beyond taking the cylinder out.
I do not take the grips off. (I have taken them off and having never found any powder residue or rust, I no longer do.) I do coat them with Minwax Paste Finishing Wax. I flush the barrel first by running it under the hot water tap. Then, I use hot soapy water and a bore brush. I do the same with the cylinder, scrubbing the nipples with a toothbrush. Then I dry it off, if the heat of the water has not done so. I oil all the parts. Put the cylinder back in and buff the wax off. There is no rust on the gun.
Pete