Pentagon Confirms Move to 6.8mm - Page 10

stagpanther · September 4, 2019, 10:41 AM

My guess is Sig's ammo is required to simply run at the pressure specs of the final LC ammo (which apparently is vaporware at this point).

davidsog · September 4, 2019, 01:21 PM

Quote:

So all the troops have 2 years to practice dry-firing?

No...If you READ the thread...

Quote:

the weapon system bidder is also going to be the sole ammunition supplier

The bidder is also bidding on an ammunition supply contract until the Government gets their manufacturing up to speed.

davidsog · September 4, 2019, 01:23 PM

Quote:

My guess is Sig's ammo is required to simply run at the pressure specs of the final LC ammo (which apparently is vaporware at this point).

I do not think SIG's ammo is going to be the winner but that is purely my opinion. The other ammunition submission offer much greater weight/space savings without the pressure issues.

That's just me though.

rickyrick · September 4, 2019, 01:59 PM

Quote:

I do not think SIG's ammo is going to be the winner but that is purely my opinion. The other ammunition submission offer much greater weight/space savings

looking at the ammo, I was thinking The same thing. I don’t know much about the cartridge, but we could stuff a fat cartridge in an AR now, but will gain size and weight.
The telescoping cartridges seems to put more propellant behind the bullet.

Bartholomew Roberts · September 4, 2019, 05:40 PM

I’m curious how Lake City is going to build a new ammo factory for an ammunition the Army hasn’t selected yet. Supposedly, it could be a cased/telescoped ammo (AAI Textron) or a brass/steel hybrid (SIG), or whatever the General Dynamics contender is using.

Seems like it would be difficult to start building the factory when the technology underlying the different ammo is so different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stagpanther

So all the troops have 2 years to practice dry-firing?

They’ll probably need it to overcome the flinch reflex.

davidsog · September 4, 2019, 06:50 PM

Quote:

The telescoping cartridges seems to put more propellant behind the bullet.

It is some 38% lighter with 300% more energy.

rickyrick · September 4, 2019, 08:58 PM

I thought this to be an interesting comparison, although it’s 6.5mm the 6.8 will be similar

ed308 · September 4, 2019, 09:13 PM

Quote:

I’m curious how Lake City is going to build a new ammo factory for an ammunition the Army hasn’t selected yet. Supposedly, it could be a cased/telescoped ammo (AAI Textron) or a brass/steel hybrid (SIG), or whatever the General Dynamics contender is using.

Seems like it would be difficult to start building the factory when the technology underlying the different ammo is so different.

From the article...

The new ammunition will be produced at Lake City after the Army finalizes the weapon, develops the new round and builds a new production facility, he said.

The Army Corps of Engineers has been soliciting for an architect and engineering firm, and design task orders are slated to be awarded by the end of the summer. Following the awards, the service will begin determining the size and scope of the new facility, he noted.

https://www.nationaldefensemagazine....w-6-8-mm-round

rickyrick · September 4, 2019, 09:31 PM

Does anyone know how much ammunition will need to be stockpiled in order to support any expected future conflict, at least for the initial part?... I assume production would be ramped up when a conflict does kick off

Bartholomew Roberts · September 5, 2019, 05:26 AM

So, Lake City has issued a solicitation for an architectural and engineering firm. And the winning firm will be on retainer for three-four years in the event actual construction begins.

davidsog · September 6, 2019, 01:06 PM

I do not think it says that. It says that an engineering firm will be on hand and when a winner is awarded a contract construction will begin.

Bartholomew Roberts · September 6, 2019, 06:28 PM

Textron confirms cased-telescoped ammunition for their entry and states the prototypes will be displayed at the October 2019 AUSA. They state they are teaming with Olin for ammo and H&K for scaling and production of the rifle.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...ron-talk-ngsw/

RC20 · September 6, 2019, 06:48 PM

Seems odd to come out with a conventional 6.8 and then go to one of the collapsed in what has to be an all new rifled machine guns to shoot it.

RC20 · September 6, 2019, 06:49 PM

Quote:

I thought this to be an interesting comparison, although it’s 6.5mm the 6.8 will be similar

Great picture and comparison, 3 silly mm makes not difference, its like 3/24 of an inch

Jim Watson · September 6, 2019, 07:55 PM

What's a decimal point on the gunboards?

Bartholomew Roberts · September 7, 2019, 08:24 AM

The final competitor’s ammo revealed - the General Dynamics/Beretta/True Velocity team is offering a hybrid polymer/steel case with almost no shoulder for their entry.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...sed-ammo-ngsw/

ed308 · September 7, 2019, 09:39 AM

Liberals will have a cow over True Velocity's entry. If we can't have plastic straws, they'll never allow a plastic case.

Jim Watson · September 7, 2019, 05:11 PM

The True Velocity is similar to the "neckless" round developed by AAI.
Mold the plastic body directly onto the bullet. Load powder from the rear, plug with metal case head for primer pocket and extractor purchase.
Their experimental rounds would fire in standard .308 and .260 Rem chambers.

ed308 · September 12, 2019, 09:50 AM

Close up look at Sig's bimetal horse in this race...

http://soldiersystems.net/2019/09/10...ammo-soft-bag/

Jim Watson · September 12, 2019, 11:02 AM

Interesting.
Some years ago, there was a steel headed case offered to handloaders who wanted to soup them up. The Army wants Magnum velocity, which requires either a lot of powder volume or a lot of pressure. Looks like Sig is giving them a lot of pressure.

Sharkbite · September 12, 2019, 12:32 PM

6.8x51????

How do you run a ctg that size in a platform the size of a 249?

stagpanther · September 12, 2019, 12:40 PM

I still think the sig stuff is "placeholder" while the real top-secret "sharks with frickin' laser beams" ammo is developed independently. Russians and Chinese will probably field it first.

kraigwy · September 12, 2019, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Will likely piss off the Creedmoor fans.

I'm a CM fan, why would this piss me off? This means I get an excuse to buy another cartridge.

But what ever they chose or if they stick with the 5.56, it wont make any difference unless the Army changes its policy and decides to teach the soldier how to shoot.

Bartholomew Roberts · September 12, 2019, 04:59 PM

Pictures of the AAI Textron team’s cased-telescoped rifle and squad mg:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...sw-prototypes/

And a close up of the SIG entries (plus a .338 Norma Mag MG):
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...squad-weapons/

SIG is calling their NGSW entry the “SPEAR.”

ed308 · September 12, 2019, 07:46 PM

Saw that on another forum. Strange looking AR.

September 4, 2019, 10:41 AM	#226
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	My guess is Sig's ammo is required to simply run at the pressure specs of the final LC ammo (which apparently is vaporware at this point). __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

September 4, 2019, 08:58 PM	#232
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	Pentagon Confirms Move to 6.8mm I thought this to be an interesting comparison, although it’s 6.5mm the 6.8 will be similar

September 6, 2019, 06:48 PM	#238
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Seems odd to come out with a conventional 6.8 and then go to one of the collapsed in what has to be an all new rifled machine guns to shoot it. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

September 12, 2019, 12:40 PM	#247
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	I still think the sig stuff is "placeholder" while the real top-secret "sharks with frickin' laser beams" ammo is developed independently. Russians and Chinese will probably field it first. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

September 12, 2019, 04:59 PM	#249
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Pictures of the AAI Textron team’s cased-telescoped rifle and squad mg: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...sw-prototypes/ And a close up of the SIG entries (plus a .338 Norma Mag MG): https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...squad-weapons/ SIG is calling their NGSW entry the “SPEAR.” Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; September 12, 2019 at 05:05 PM.

September 4, 2019, 09:31 PM	#234
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	Does anyone know how much ammunition will need to be stockpiled in order to support any expected future conflict, at least for the initial part?... I assume production would be ramped up when a conflict does kick off

September 5, 2019, 05:26 AM	#235
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	So, Lake City has issued a solicitation for an architectural and engineering firm. And the winning firm will be on retainer for three-four years in the event actual construction begins.

September 6, 2019, 01:06 PM	#236
davidsog Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2018 Posts: 1,326	I do not think it says that. It says that an engineering firm will be on hand and when a winner is awarded a contract construction will begin.

September 6, 2019, 06:28 PM	#237
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Textron confirms cased-telescoped ammunition for their entry and states the prototypes will be displayed at the October 2019 AUSA. They state they are teaming with Olin for ammo and H&K for scaling and production of the rifle. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...ron-talk-ngsw/

September 6, 2019, 07:55 PM	#240
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	What's a decimal point on the gunboards?

September 7, 2019, 08:24 AM	#241
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	The final competitor’s ammo revealed - the General Dynamics/Beretta/True Velocity team is offering a hybrid polymer/steel case with almost no shoulder for their entry. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...sed-ammo-ngsw/

September 7, 2019, 09:39 AM	#242
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	Liberals will have a cow over True Velocity's entry. If we can't have plastic straws, they'll never allow a plastic case.

September 7, 2019, 05:11 PM	#243
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	The True Velocity is similar to the "neckless" round developed by AAI. Mold the plastic body directly onto the bullet. Load powder from the rear, plug with metal case head for primer pocket and extractor purchase. Their experimental rounds would fire in standard .308 and .260 Rem chambers.

September 12, 2019, 09:50 AM	#244
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	Close up look at Sig's bimetal horse in this race... http://soldiersystems.net/2019/09/10...ammo-soft-bag/

September 12, 2019, 11:02 AM	#245
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Interesting. Some years ago, there was a steel headed case offered to handloaders who wanted to soup them up. The Army wants Magnum velocity, which requires either a lot of powder volume or a lot of pressure. Looks like Sig is giving them a lot of pressure.

September 12, 2019, 12:32 PM	#246
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	6.8x51???? How do you run a ctg that size in a platform the size of a 249?

September 12, 2019, 07:46 PM	#250
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	Saw that on another forum. Strange looking AR.