hand-loading 284 win challenge

[stagpanther]

I'm going to build a rife for this cartridge--in the meantime I figured I would get into loading some cartridges for it (factory ammo is non-existent). The idea looked good on paper--the reality is proving to be something else.

Since I'm loading for a COL to fit a magazine--I'm limited to 2.80; maybe 2.805 at the most. What I'm finding is that most, if not all, modern 7mm bullets with a fairly high SD/BC will have an ogive that does not allow it to be seated without going a little ways into the case neck; created a small gap between the case mouth and the bullet. The neck itself holds the bullet tight enough that I'm not worried about movement--but I am concerned about that gap. I generally use factory crimps on all my rifle cartridges--and putting a crimp at the case mouth I can easily close that gap.

I don't think the crimp I'm doing is anything more than say what I would do to get a grip on a bullet's cannelure--but I honestly don't know if this would have any adverse affect on firing the bullet--other than maybe raising the start pressure a bit.

What sayeth the collective?

[T. O'Heir]

Brass isn't any better. Midway is showing only Winchester at $39.99 per 50. $769.99 per 1,000. Graf's is $35.59 per 20 for Quality.
2.800" is the SAAMI MAX OAL. No ogives involved. And Hodgdon shows a 175 going to 2.930". I'm getting more and more suspicious of Hodgdon's site.
The gap sounds like it might be caused by excessive chamfering of the case mouth.
You can forget the cannelure altogether. You can likely forget the crimp too. A crimp really isn't necessary in a bolt action.

[stagpanther]

I'm not sure what point(s) you're making there Tim. The brass isn't the issue--never siad it was. This is going to be used in a semi-auto magazine so going beyond the SAAMI spec is not an option.

Truth is--regardless of who says what in their reload manuals--the majority of 284 win loads are generally listed beyond the SAAMI spec. Unless you use a fairly stumpy flat base bullet--you are not going to get an efficient boat-tail or spitzer into that case without a little bit of encroachment into the ogive. That's my issue--and all I really am wondering is if there is anything unsafe about crimping the case mouth a bit to take that "ledge" off.

[old roper]

It is a challenge, 284. Have you looked at any bullets that nose length from ogive forward will not have ogive at the case mouth? I understand spec 284 @ 2.800"

I'm not trying to pick fight with you. I shoot 7mm 160gr AB and nose length is right around .600" and bullet 1.410" long.

[RC20]

Stag:

You might look at Savage, the magazine may be a bit longer.

Also try measure a magazine, often they will take more than COAL, that more a guide to ensure not getting into the lands on any gun.

Not sure I can mike a magazine for you but will try here.

If you do your own barrel you can head space out a bit and get a bit more throat length.


Different bullets will hit the lands at different lengths. Might try Nossler, they are a shorter Ogive (standard match anyway)

Not sure if hunting or target or both.

Target you can single load.

Hunting I know the issue is with the magazine.

[stagpanther]

I thought about trimming the case neck length down--but then I'm a bit concerned about chamber erosion over time. This is going into a short action auto-loader so the "as far as she'll go" is not really an option.

[RC20]

What auto loader?

Following is maybe not relevant but for my Savage bolt short action mag.

Ok, I see that its a short action shell (?) I thought it was a long one.

I show a bit over 3.10 in my Short Savage magazine.

If you don't hit the lands, longer throat and or go Savage then ?

[RC20]

Did a bit more reading. Dang it would be easier if you did this with a bolt (I built a7.5 Swiss on a Savage action so I know the intrigue)

I guess the issue is feed and catching, so cutting the case back maybe only solution.

If it feeds with the case lip you would have a very long version of Telescoping Ammunition!

With that fat case necked down to 284 you are probably in a barrel eater of sorts anyway, 2500 rounds or?

[stagpanther]

This is for an xx308 AR build I'm doing.

[RC20]

I didn't know you could do that in those, am I out of it or .........

For what its worth.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/thr...-life.3766801/

Lothar Walther is expensive barrel maker for a custom, $550 or so but they also use a harder steel.

[stagpanther]

It is a bit of an experiment--Accuracy Systems has done it so I assume it's not impossible--but so far I haven't found anyone else that has done it. Of course--the elephant in the room is "what can this do that the 7-08 can't" and yup, not a whole lot. I'm not loading these big, long and hot, no 1000 yd matches in mind, but some very good shooting and accuracy to say 600 to 800 yds with 162 gr'ers is definitely something I'd like to explore eventually.

Barrel has already been made for me by McGowan. I can't see this as being a worse burner than the 6.5-284 Norma--what I've heard is that it's not as bad. But then again, I've never talked to anyone personally that has experience with the 284 win.

[RC20]

Well good luck. Milling the case short per your idea and you have a fairly decent neck to work with.

Or see how the CTR work!

[stagpanther]

I just miked my collection of xx308 mags--the brownell's one is the top finisher with what looks like it will let me get away with maybe 2.83 or so--that may be just the whisker's hair that I need.

[std7mag]

I finished my 284 Win build too late for last deer season. I'm still trying to get some decent weather for load development.
Mine was done with a commercial Mauser action. Was originally a 270 Win.

History will show that Winchester used it in their auto loader.

Hence where the problems began. The short action magazine is too short.
Also since it was built around an auto loader the operating pressures are maxed at
56,000 psi. Hurting velocities.

Your better off going with 7mm-08.
Velocities will be about the same, with a shorter COAL.
Also brass is cheaper and easier to find.

[stagpanther]

Your better off going with 7mm-08.
Velocities will be about the same, with a shorter COAL.
Also brass is cheaper and easier to find.

I knew all that--I just wanted to give it a shot out of curiosity.

[std7mag]

Oh, and don't plan on using Bergers.
That or you need custom reamer from PTG with a short throat.

[std7mag]

Have you thought about the width of the cartridge also?

This whole thing reminds me of 260 Rem to 6.5 Manbun.

Maybe the 284 Creedstagpanthermoor. :

[old roper]

stagpanther, I have 284 on long action and it's same action I used for 6.5x284 Norma same OAL 3.300" +/-. I did 284 on short action. If you need some cases for magazine to try, I have some Nosler 6.5x284 I can neck up to 7 and their new case. Just PM your adress.

[RC20]

Was it done in an auto loader?

That's the goal and limitation, aka AR-10

[stagpanther]

#18
old roper
Senior Member

Join Date: June 11, 2007
Posts: 1,579
stagpanther, I have 284 on long action and it's same action I used for 6.5x284 Norma same OAL 3.300" +/-. I did 284 on short action. If you need some cases for magazine to try, I have some Nosler 6.5x284 I can neck up to 7 and their new case. Just PM your adress.

I've had a rifle in 6.5 x 284 norma for years--so I already have a large supply of cases (norma, hornady and lapua) to neck up (fresh new cases too). Very kind of you to offer. Did you trim back your case length for your short action cartridges to a significant degree?

Was it done in an auto loader?

Winchester designed the cartridge originally to be able to work in an auto-loader as far as I know. I admit that I didn't do my homework enough to find the inherent limitation of the bullets you can use--but then again I was just going by the SAAMI and specs and what manufacturers published themselves, though I should have been smart enough to figure it out from the hand-loads I've done for the 6.5 x 284.

[old roper]

stagpanther, When I got out of the service I purchased a Browning Safari 243 and gun store that had it also had 284 which I knew nothing about. Later I purchased Win auto 284 then I rebarreled #1 then I did one short action. Later I had 6x284 build then I had another on build for the VLD bullets, then the 6.5x284 which had tight neck. On the short action I didn't trim any of the brass.

I could see doing it but I more than like have reamer made. That way it's done right and that just me.

I know nothing on any of the AR.

There was one on accurate site he did bolt but used H&S magazine and he did something with the lips.

Well good luck

[stagpanther]

Well--of all places I think I may have found my answer--the Barnes reload manual says "lightly crimp case mouth so it contacts the ogive."

Sorry I didn't see it before--as Rosanna Rosannadana would say "never mind..."

[gwpercle]

I don't know if this will help but back in the late 1960's 7.5 Swiss K11 rifles were flooding the market, all the 7.5 Swiss ammo was Berdan primed and we couldn't reload it but 284 Winchester cases could be resized in 7.5 Swiss dies and made perfectly good reloads.
Now that 284 Winchester are the hen's teeth.....possibly 7.5 Swiss could be used to form 284 Winchester.
I purchased 7.5 Swiss new brass from Midway for $29.95 / 50 and found some once fired mixed head stamp cases on line but can't locate that vendor any longer.
Gary

[stagpanther]

Case supply isn't a problem--I have over a thousand 6.5 x 284 and 284 win cases--the real challenge is going to get this to all live well in an AR. I just started testing the 308 mags--and as I suspected they start bulging once you get past 5 cartridges--much like trying to stuff 6.8 or grendel cartridges into a 5.56 magazine. No biggie--I never load more than that at one time anyway.

[RC20]

I setup my 7.5 Swiss as a single loader, purely target so vastly easier.

I know some of the AR shooting disciplines also single load, Sierra mentions it in their manual.