Women's concealed carry

RevLimiter · September 14, 2017, 11:56 PM

Hello all. Without getting into extreme detail I'll give a short back story. My girlfriend's line of work comes with a lot of drug addicts and crazy people. She recently had a woman threaten to kill her and I've convinced her carrying a pistol is a good option for protection. She has very small hands and likes a small purse. She likes the Glock 17 her brother has and hates my edc .357 snubby (the recoil hurts her hands and she can't pull the trigger with one finger). I was thinking a G43 would be a good option but funds are somewhat tight and I can find a S&W shield 9 for much, much less plus it has a higher capacity. Those are just options I've looked at. Any insight on these or suggestions for other weapons are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

DaleA · September 15, 2017, 01:46 AM

Welcome to the Forum. The topic of getting a gun for someone else comes up regularly, and most of the time it is a man getting a gun for a woman. There’s kind of a standard answer to this and that’s get the person to a class at a gun range where they can get some training and shoot several different guns. If they don’t find anything that suits them then take them to a range that rents guns and let them try out some more.

It's usually better if the choice is theirs.

Remember, if someone doesn’t want to carry or shoot a gun then pushing them to do it is counter-productive.

One highly thought of resource for ANY new shooter is ‘The Cornered Cat’ a link to the site is here:
https://www.corneredcat.com/

Rangerrich99 · September 15, 2017, 02:04 AM

Welcome.

Let me begin by letting you know that you can do a search on this subject (lots of threads on women's carry), which should be good research material.

Just from your description, it sounds like she likes the handling/recoil characteristics of a bigger gun (i.e., Glock 17) but needs/wants a smaller gun to tote in her purse (like a snubbie revolver).

Smaller guns are going to produce more felt recoil, which she probably won't like, but bigger guns are going to be heavier and harder to conceal.

My best suggestion is to have your GF try as many different guns as possible to find one that fits her hands, has the least unpleasant recoil characteristics for her, and fits her/your budget.

My second-best suggestion is to convince her to work on her upper-body and her grip strength, as that will allow her to comfortably manipulate/shoot a wider range of guns.

As for the Shield in 9mm, I have carried one for about two years now, and like it a lot. It's small and slim, extremely reliable, yet has enough weight to mitigate a lot of the recoil, and it's more than accurate enough for defensive purposes.

All of the women that have shot my Shield like how it fits their hand and its small size. Most don't mind its recoil, and only one has had any 'limp wristing' issues with it so far. That one is 4' 10" and 96 lbs. soaking wet. She has virtually no grip strength and had chronic issues with her Bersa (stovepipe/FTF/FTE at least twice per mag). The problem isn't nearly as bad with my Shield, but she managed to jam it up twice in a 50 rd. box.

Possible issues w/ Shield: trigger pull weight is on the heavy side, making quick follow up shots a matter of some extra practice, if she doesn't have much grip strength. Though not anywhere near as heavy as a brand-new j-frame revolver trigger. Also the double captured recoil spring makes racking it a bit tougher for people with less grip strength. Loading the magazines also is not easy until the mag springs break in a little. I recommend the Uplula magazine loader, though they are more expensive than most competitors (retail approx.: $30). Other mag loaders will do the job for less, if not as comfortably.

Other suggestions to rent/borrow:

Ruger LCR in .357 mag. I believe the .357 mag version is heavier than the .38 spl version, which should help some with felt recoil, plus the trigger pull weight is about half what most j-frame snubbies offer (talking about brand-new examples; used ones may have lighter pulls through 'experience'). Should be able to find a used one for $350-$450, I think.

Ruger LC9S: this is a striker-fire model, so lighter pull weight, smaller than the Shield, same capacity, I believe.

If she likes something like a Glock 43, then maybe something from the Springfield XD line. Out-of-the-box XDs typically have lighter trigger pulls than comparable S&W M&Ps/Shields. Probably can find a used one at or under $400. I think (I'[m not as familiar with XDs, sorry) she would want to look at the XD-S line.

Fortunately for you/her there are currently dozens of guns that'll probably fit her needs, so it's just a question of getting her to pull some triggers and decide what she wants.

And don't worry you'll get lots more responses soon enough.

Good luck and good hunting.

Bingo! DaleA remembered it for me; that corneredcat site should be a big help to your GF.

JDBerg · September 15, 2017, 04:19 AM

http://thewellarmedwoman.com/

Put your girlfriend in touch with the local chapter of this organization. I know ladies who are members of this organization and the fact is that women learn differently than men especially about firearms, and the tribal knowledge about firearms safety, training, and concealed carry are very different for women compared to men!

ritepath · September 15, 2017, 05:16 AM

For a small purse almost all firearms are gonna be to big and heavy. You'll be looking for an LCP sized firearm.

Carmady · September 15, 2017, 07:41 AM

She might like a Beretta Pico. You'll have to rack the slide and get it ready for her, but after that she'll have seven rounds. Safe, small, light, low recoil (nothing like a LCP).

hdwhit · September 15, 2017, 09:05 AM

When my grandmother wanted a gun, she went to the gun store and bought what she wanted. Of course, she took my grandfather along with her, but that was mostly so he could run interference with the guy at the counter wanting to tell "the little lady" what she wanted.

SA1911 · September 15, 2017, 09:10 AM

Good Morning, RevLimiter,

You have two ways to go. You could get her a small caliber gun, or you could buy her a handgun suitable for saving her life and teach her how to use it. Were you me, I'd go with the latter.

I have never owned a pocket pistol nor will I ever own one. They're a damned good way of getting a person killed, and I'm talking a good guy.

It's good to know terminal ballistics and how people become incapacitated. If your g/f interacts with drug addicts, biological incapacitation is skewed all to hell. Once you understand these concepts, you'll know the very serious detriments of small caliber guns.

It's good to know probable distances at which gunfights occur.

I've taught women to shoot. One had small hands. The first gun she ever fired was my Sig P229 with 180 grain factor ammo. She had it wired within a couple mags. She loved it.

I've seen petite women shoot .45 ACP handguns.

I used to consider the .38 Special FBI load as minimum for saving my life. After reevaluation, I've gone with a Sig P239 .40 S&W using 180 grain ammo. There is no doubt in my mind that your girlfriend could shoot it.

I'd go no minimum as 9MM/.38 Special FBI load. .40 S&W is much better. .45 ACP rules the self-defense cartridge roost.

Which way would you go for saving your life? Your girlfriend's life?

Glenn E. Meyer · September 15, 2017, 04:10 PM

I have deleted a series based on a post that was not relevant.

The best advice given:

1. Check out corneredcat.com

2. Find some serious training or women's oriented groups for practice. A man's view on just the gun is not the crucial factor.

3. The person in question has to pick the gun and practice with.

TailGator · September 15, 2017, 05:35 PM

Heck, yes re corneredcat.com. Excellent site, especially for women.

The post about the conflicting needs of women shooters is spot on. There is a series of compromises involved in the selection of a concealed pistol for anyone, but for women the compromises seem more acute and severe. A woman who dresses stylishly really has less ways to conceal than a man, or perhaps it is more accurate to say that her dress requires a smaller pistol. Plus a small hand is more likely to be a factor.

Taking my family as an example, my wife's favorite range gun is a Beretta 92. Concealment wearing the clothes she likes to wear is utterly impossible. A Glock 26 was closer, but still not realistic to conceal dressing the way she does. She tried quite a few pistols out, and looked at and handled even more, before picking out a Sig P238 for herself. She wanted the small size so that she would have options for concealing both at her waist and in a moderately sized purse, and it really is a good shooter with mild recoil, good sights, and surprisingly good accuracy. The price turns some people off, and not everyone is comfortable with carrying cocked and locked, but it was her choice and I supported her. She and I would both rather she had a 9 mm at her disposal, but she thought she would carry the little Sig more regularly.

None of this is to say that a P238 should be your choice, just an acknowledgement that there were compromises to be considered and that was my wife's individual point of comfort. Every person, male and female, has to find their own. It is fortunate that there are so many choices available in today's world.

BWM · September 15, 2017, 05:41 PM

In a six gun Rugger makes a very good one SP101 in 38sp & 357mag that way you have the 38 to practice with and you can carry the 357 if you want the best of both world

CDW4ME · September 15, 2017, 06:44 PM

If you can get her to wear a holster and dress around the gun (rather than purse carry) you are persuasive far beyond average.
In my limited experience women refuse to dress around a gun.

RevLimiter · September 15, 2017, 06:59 PM

I carry the SP101 .357 every day. She can't pull the trigger and doesn't like the recoil. I'll give a bit more detail that I didn't before:
She cannot have the gun legally on her person because she works in a government office. My concern is her ruining into a client or former client on the street or at the store when I'm not around. I get that a 9mm isn't as powerful as a .40 or .45 but I would prefer the ammo capacity and ease of shooting over stopping power. More rounds=more shots potentially on target which, to me, (many will disagree) overrules stopping power. I will check out the above websites and we're going to look at some pistols tomorrow. All the advice and opinions and suggestions are more than welcome and are appreciated. Thank you.

September 14, 2017, 11:56 PM	#1
RevLimiter Junior Member Join Date: June 11, 2017 Posts: 12	Women's concealed carry Hello all. Without getting into extreme detail I'll give a short back story. My girlfriend's line of work comes with a lot of drug addicts and crazy people. She recently had a woman threaten to kill her and I've convinced her carrying a pistol is a good option for protection. She has very small hands and likes a small purse. She likes the Glock 17 her brother has and hates my edc .357 snubby (the recoil hurts her hands and she can't pull the trigger with one finger). I was thinking a G43 would be a good option but funds are somewhat tight and I can find a S&W shield 9 for much, much less plus it has a higher capacity. Those are just options I've looked at. Any insight on these or suggestions for other weapons are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

September 15, 2017, 04:19 AM	#4
JDBerg Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2015 Location: PA Posts: 1,835	http://thewellarmedwoman.com/ Put your girlfriend in touch with the local chapter of this organization. I know ladies who are members of this organization and the fact is that women learn differently than men especially about firearms, and the tribal knowledge about firearms safety, training, and concealed carry are very different for women compared to men! __________________ Words to Live By: Before You Pray - Believe; Before You Speak - Listen; Before You Spend - Earn; Before You Write - Think; Before You Quit - Try; Before You Die - Live

September 15, 2017, 05:16 AM	#5
ritepath Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,419	For a small purse almost all firearms are gonna be to big and heavy. You'll be looking for an LCP sized firearm. __________________ There's only one...

September 15, 2017, 04:10 PM	#9
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	I have deleted a series based on a post that was not relevant. The best advice given: 1. Check out corneredcat.com 2. Find some serious training or women's oriented groups for practice. A man's view on just the gun is not the crucial factor. 3. The person in question has to pick the gun and practice with. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

September 15, 2017, 05:41 PM	#11
BWM Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2013 Location: SW IN Posts: 438	In a six gun Rugger makes a very good one SP101 in 38sp & 357mag that way you have the 38 to practice with and you can carry the 357 if you want the best of both world __________________ Man that likes guns. Navy. USS Ponchatoula AO 148 USS Vesuvius AE 15

September 15, 2017, 01:46 AM	#2
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,313	Welcome to the Forum. The topic of getting a gun for someone else comes up regularly, and most of the time it is a man getting a gun for a woman. There’s kind of a standard answer to this and that’s get the person to a class at a gun range where they can get some training and shoot several different guns. If they don’t find anything that suits them then take them to a range that rents guns and let them try out some more. It's usually better if the choice is theirs. Remember, if someone doesn’t want to carry or shoot a gun then pushing them to do it is counter-productive. One highly thought of resource for ANY new shooter is ‘The Cornered Cat’ a link to the site is here: https://www.corneredcat.com/

September 15, 2017, 02:04 AM	#3
Rangerrich99 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Location: Kinda near Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,254	Welcome. Let me begin by letting you know that you can do a search on this subject (lots of threads on women's carry), which should be good research material. Just from your description, it sounds like she likes the handling/recoil characteristics of a bigger gun (i.e., Glock 17) but needs/wants a smaller gun to tote in her purse (like a snubbie revolver). Smaller guns are going to produce more felt recoil, which she probably won't like, but bigger guns are going to be heavier and harder to conceal. My best suggestion is to have your GF try as many different guns as possible to find one that fits her hands, has the least unpleasant recoil characteristics for her, and fits her/your budget. My second-best suggestion is to convince her to work on her upper-body and her grip strength, as that will allow her to comfortably manipulate/shoot a wider range of guns. As for the Shield in 9mm, I have carried one for about two years now, and like it a lot. It's small and slim, extremely reliable, yet has enough weight to mitigate a lot of the recoil, and it's more than accurate enough for defensive purposes. All of the women that have shot my Shield like how it fits their hand and its small size. Most don't mind its recoil, and only one has had any 'limp wristing' issues with it so far. That one is 4' 10" and 96 lbs. soaking wet. She has virtually no grip strength and had chronic issues with her Bersa (stovepipe/FTF/FTE at least twice per mag). The problem isn't nearly as bad with my Shield, but she managed to jam it up twice in a 50 rd. box. Possible issues w/ Shield: trigger pull weight is on the heavy side, making quick follow up shots a matter of some extra practice, if she doesn't have much grip strength. Though not anywhere near as heavy as a brand-new j-frame revolver trigger. Also the double captured recoil spring makes racking it a bit tougher for people with less grip strength. Loading the magazines also is not easy until the mag springs break in a little. I recommend the Uplula magazine loader, though they are more expensive than most competitors (retail approx.: $30). Other mag loaders will do the job for less, if not as comfortably. Other suggestions to rent/borrow: Ruger LCR in .357 mag. I believe the .357 mag version is heavier than the .38 spl version, which should help some with felt recoil, plus the trigger pull weight is about half what most j-frame snubbies offer (talking about brand-new examples; used ones may have lighter pulls through 'experience'). Should be able to find a used one for $350-$450, I think. Ruger LC9S: this is a striker-fire model, so lighter pull weight, smaller than the Shield, same capacity, I believe. If she likes something like a Glock 43, then maybe something from the Springfield XD line. Out-of-the-box XDs typically have lighter trigger pulls than comparable S&W M&Ps/Shields. Probably can find a used one at or under $400. I think (I'[m not as familiar with XDs, sorry) she would want to look at the XD-S line. Fortunately for you/her there are currently dozens of guns that'll probably fit her needs, so it's just a question of getting her to pull some triggers and decide what she wants. And don't worry you'll get lots more responses soon enough. Good luck and good hunting. Bingo! DaleA remembered it for me; that corneredcat site should be a big help to your GF.

September 15, 2017, 07:41 AM	#6
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	She might like a Beretta Pico. You'll have to rack the slide and get it ready for her, but after that she'll have seven rounds. Safe, small, light, low recoil (nothing like a LCP).

September 15, 2017, 09:05 AM	#7
hdwhit Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2017 Posts: 1,011	When my grandmother wanted a gun, she went to the gun store and bought what she wanted. Of course, she took my grandfather along with her, but that was mostly so he could run interference with the guy at the counter wanting to tell "the little lady" what she wanted.

September 15, 2017, 09:10 AM	#8
SA1911 Junior member Join Date: September 6, 2017 Posts: 147	Good Morning, RevLimiter, You have two ways to go. You could get her a small caliber gun, or you could buy her a handgun suitable for saving her life and teach her how to use it. Were you me, I'd go with the latter. I have never owned a pocket pistol nor will I ever own one. They're a damned good way of getting a person killed, and I'm talking a good guy. It's good to know terminal ballistics and how people become incapacitated. If your g/f interacts with drug addicts, biological incapacitation is skewed all to hell. Once you understand these concepts, you'll know the very serious detriments of small caliber guns. It's good to know probable distances at which gunfights occur. I've taught women to shoot. One had small hands. The first gun she ever fired was my Sig P229 with 180 grain factor ammo. She had it wired within a couple mags. She loved it. I've seen petite women shoot .45 ACP handguns. I used to consider the .38 Special FBI load as minimum for saving my life. After reevaluation, I've gone with a Sig P239 .40 S&W using 180 grain ammo. There is no doubt in my mind that your girlfriend could shoot it. I'd go no minimum as 9MM/.38 Special FBI load. .40 S&W is much better. .45 ACP rules the self-defense cartridge roost. Which way would you go for saving your life? Your girlfriend's life?

September 15, 2017, 05:35 PM	#10
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,787	Heck, yes re corneredcat.com. Excellent site, especially for women. The post about the conflicting needs of women shooters is spot on. There is a series of compromises involved in the selection of a concealed pistol for anyone, but for women the compromises seem more acute and severe. A woman who dresses stylishly really has less ways to conceal than a man, or perhaps it is more accurate to say that her dress requires a smaller pistol. Plus a small hand is more likely to be a factor. Taking my family as an example, my wife's favorite range gun is a Beretta 92. Concealment wearing the clothes she likes to wear is utterly impossible. A Glock 26 was closer, but still not realistic to conceal dressing the way she does. She tried quite a few pistols out, and looked at and handled even more, before picking out a Sig P238 for herself. She wanted the small size so that she would have options for concealing both at her waist and in a moderately sized purse, and it really is a good shooter with mild recoil, good sights, and surprisingly good accuracy. The price turns some people off, and not everyone is comfortable with carrying cocked and locked, but it was her choice and I supported her. She and I would both rather she had a 9 mm at her disposal, but she thought she would carry the little Sig more regularly. None of this is to say that a P238 should be your choice, just an acknowledgement that there were compromises to be considered and that was my wife's individual point of comfort. Every person, male and female, has to find their own. It is fortunate that there are so many choices available in today's world.

September 15, 2017, 06:44 PM	#12
CDW4ME Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 1,321	If you can get her to wear a holster and dress around the gun (rather than purse carry) you are persuasive far beyond average. In my limited experience women refuse to dress around a gun. __________________ Strive to carry the handgun you would want anywhere, everywhere; forget that good area bullcrap. "Wouldn't want to / Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

September 15, 2017, 06:59 PM	#13
RevLimiter Junior Member Join Date: June 11, 2017 Posts: 12	I carry the SP101 .357 every day. She can't pull the trigger and doesn't like the recoil. I'll give a bit more detail that I didn't before: She cannot have the gun legally on her person because she works in a government office. My concern is her ruining into a client or former client on the street or at the store when I'm not around. I get that a 9mm isn't as powerful as a .40 or .45 but I would prefer the ammo capacity and ease of shooting over stopping power. More rounds=more shots potentially on target which, to me, (many will disagree) overrules stopping power. I will check out the above websites and we're going to look at some pistols tomorrow. All the advice and opinions and suggestions are more than welcome and are appreciated. Thank you.