Is it legal to "hint" what is on your hip? - Page 4

crashresidue · April 5, 2005, 06:07 AM

Cheers,

WOW - this one is goning to be "food for thought" for a while!

My story is - about a decade ago, my wife, new dog and I were returning from an out of state contract. We'd stopped in a "middle class" motel for the night. I took "Mouse" out for her evening walk and was approached by a group of drunken "latinos" stating very loudly that "this nice white man" was going to "loan" them all the money I had in my wallet.

"Mouse" (a Blue Healer) had already assumed the "attack" stance. I flipped back my shirt, showing them a holstered weapon and stated "I don't DO warning shots!" "When this clears the holster, it'll be smokin - but I wonder just how many of you I'll get - and how many the dog will?" It STOPPED right then/there.

If you're "scared" enough to let a BG get within fist range - I've got to wonder just how scared you are of taking another life? Is it worth YOURS?

Yea, I'm one of those "deranged Viet Vets" - but I decided a LONG time ago - my life/family's is worth more to me than their's is!

If "displaying" a weapon is a CRIME in the state you live in - MOVE!

On another forum, my "signature" reads - "Never threaten with a weapon - when it clears leather - it best be smokin!" I stand by that.

I don't "intimadate" worth a f*ck - if I feel I need to threaten in response, I'll just use it.

Sorry for the "rant"

Gentle winds,
cr

John Ringo · April 22, 2005, 12:53 PM

This is an interesting thread.

Personally, I am a 2nd degree black belt in TSD and am in pretty good shape. But, I will not engage in a fist fight with some idiot out in a parking lot. I've seen too many street fights go bad with a lucky punch or kick. I would be more inclined to OC-spray the idiot and then call the Police. Of course I would draw my firearm if there was a threat of violence that OC couldn't resolve....like several people trying to mug me.

JR

bastiat · April 22, 2005, 01:19 PM

Quote:

It seems like some of you are afraid to fight and think shooting someone to avoid a fight will be ok.

Sorry but that is incredibly ignorant and bordering on the idiotic.

I'm walking along minding my own business. Some wannabe tough guy look for trouble starts something. There's no way to escape the situation. By your train of thought, I'm obligated to engage in a fight.

I'm sorry, but I like having my own teeth and a nose that's never been broken. I don't want to spend thousands of dollars on hospital bills because some dumbass with anger control issues decided to fight me. I don't want to get an open wound and get some lowlife's blood on me and contract God knows what diseases. I don't want to miss work or have to spend time missing my life recuperating from injuries. And I don't want to be sued by some idiot who thinks because he started a fight with me I owe him money to pay his doctor bills. Even if I won that case it would cost me thousands to defend it.

Your statement takes absolutely nothing into account except the fact that you believe people who don't wish to fight are cowards because they END it by producing a firearm. That is BS.

What is the upside of your bravado? That you get to say "I'm a real man because when someone challenges me, I don't use my brain and the best method to stop the threat, I lead with my chin and start swinging!"

If I'm carrying and all my attempts to diffuse the situation have failed, I'm not going to give the guy the fight he wants. I'm going to give him the fight he wasn't expecting and end the conflict with something that has a 99% chance of avoiding real violence.

vidme · April 22, 2005, 01:19 PM

stays on record forever. Anyone can be tracked back from a post, and any group of guys who SAY you pointed a gun at them carry more wt in most courts. than your sole voice. The fact that you are dumb enough to show guys a gun (that you don't have in HAND yet) shows how much you really know about the subject.

bastiat · April 22, 2005, 02:05 PM

Quote:

You are stupid to post thusly. Anything on the net
stays on record forever. Anyone can be tracked back from a post, and any group of guys who SAY you pointed a gun at them carry more wt in most courts. than your sole voice. The fact that you are dumb enough to show guys a gun (that you don't have in HAND yet) shows how much you really know about the subject.

Uh, no, nice try. Thanks for playing.

First, IIRC, TFL doesn't keep server logs.

Second, the vast majority of posters are anonymous here and go by nicks only.

Third, I don't know of any case EVER where the posting history of the victim in a self defense incident was EVER researched. They look at the incident. This isn't some crime drama on TV where the CSI camera zooms into the computer screen, screams out to the internet, and reveals all about a poster. It's real life. They deal with the facts of the case, not theoretical discussions on an online bulletin board filled with tens of thousands of theoretical discussions.

Fourth, your very assumption is absurd. Thousand of people on dozens of firearms board have posted not only what they would do, but what they HAVE DONE. By the extension of your 'logic', we could never have any discussions related to firearms because some mean DA will figure out where to do his research online and find out that somebody uses .45 ACP instead of 9mm because of *GASP*....get this evil intention...STOPPING POWER!!!!

Oh no, they talked about which round stops a human being better! Get a rope, he's a cold stone killer!!!

Dear sweet lord, do you realize how ridiculous your 'point' really is????

Thankfully, even if you don't, most rational people will.

bastiat · April 22, 2005, 02:09 PM

BTW - I think Gunkid may be back...

*cough* *cough*

Bullrock · April 22, 2005, 03:42 PM

Quote:

"Mouse" (a Blue Healer) had already assumed the "attack" stance. I flipped back my shirt, showing them a holstered weapon and stated "I don't DO warning shots!" "When this clears the holster, it'll be smokin - but I wonder just how many of you I'll get - and how many the dog will?" It STOPPED right then/there.

Hey I really liked your post crashresidue.

When you're in that tight it's the only thing left to do. What's a blue healer? I have a West Highland Terrier pup, who thinks she's Marmaduke. She wouldn't scare anyone, but my CZ 75B would.

.45&TKD · April 22, 2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

There is no way in hell I am going to grapple with a BG while I have a gun on me.

As much as I like grappling, all the BG needs is a procket knife to gut you like a fish, if you go to the ground.

CastleBravo · April 22, 2005, 07:05 PM

It seems like this topic has wandered around a bit. So I'll address a few of the things bouncing around here.

No way in hell I'm getting in a hand-to-hand fight with some scumbag if I can avoid it. No f'ing way. If I can just leave the scene, I will. Definitely. If not, the weapon comes out, and if the sight of the weapon doesn't stop the attack promptly, it gets used until the threat is gone.

I don't say that to sound macho... actually, the opposite. I say that because I know that hand-to-hand encounters can easily get you crippled or killed. Blindness is only an eye gouge away, and assuming some scumbag will fight fair is literally suicidal... thugs don't keep up on their Marquis of Queensbury rules, they try to twist your nuts off and rupture your eardrums. This assumption that an unarmed attack is not a deadly one is foolish in the extreme, and of course it assumes that just becuase you don't see a weapon, they don't have one. Again, foolish in the extreme.

Let me repeat that for emphasis: an unarmed attack IS a deadly attack. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't seen a real fight.

As for the original question... I'm going to do everything I can to avoid violent conflict. But if somebody won't let me avoid violent conflict, I'm sure as hell not fighting on their scumbag terms, I'm fighting on mine.

BigBoreKindaGuy · April 22, 2005, 07:49 PM

To Edward429451 - I think you were justified to motion the pull or even to pull it all the way out given the fact that you are in essence protecting your defenseless unborn child. The slight physical assault against your wife could have caused a miscarriage.

Those thugs should be counting their blessings. I'm glad the situation worked out for you and your wife.

BlueSteel · April 22, 2005, 09:44 PM

I think the only situation for shooting some one is in a "life or death" situation and you are certain that sever bodily harm or death could result if you were not to use your sidearm. Sometimes you don't know for certain. It is best to try to avoid a confrontation, especially if guns are drawn.... how do you know he doesn't have one too?

Erik · April 23, 2005, 11:29 AM

Some interesting points, some germain, some not so much.

Folks, careful about "what ifing" things too much. Then again, what's too much?

Hinting may or may not be construed as brandinshing, may or may not be construed as threatening, and even assault at times depending on the totality of the facts and circumstances.

I caution to treat hinting as a criminal act because the odds are better than even that the authorities will act as if it is.

Bullrock · April 23, 2005, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Some interesting points, some germain, some not so much.

Like Jackie Gleason said in Bandit, What the hell to the GD Germains have to do with it?

Sorry! I couldn't help it.

techbrute · May 5, 2005, 03:59 PM

I've got a real simple answer to this. I'm not going to give away "the surprise" by hinting that I'm armed. I will do everything I can to evacuate and de-escalate, but when it comes down to it, I care about mine and me, I don't care about his and him. There will be a brief pause between the time the gun comes out and the time it fires. During that brief pause, I will be reading his eyes. His eyes had better do a whole lot of talking, and they better be saying, "Oh crap, how fast can I get away?"

If I draw, it will be to shoot, and it will be a surprise to everyone around me.

Bullrock · May 6, 2005, 05:58 PM

I do see your point, but I think I would hint if the situation was coming down to clearing leather. At that point to hint is another attempt to avoid, and both people get to walk away.

The element of suprise is important, but if he's not carrying you don't want to pull, and shoot. If he is openly armed then only speed matters. If your not sure if he's armed, hinting may be a way to find out, and if he is, then only speed matters! Huh????

I never cease to confuse myself

techbrute · May 6, 2005, 06:53 PM

Bullrock,

It's different for different people. I'm not all that big, but at 6', 220#, I have to figure that if they are screwing with me, they are serious. If I was 5'6" and 140 pounds, they might just be pushing me because I look like an easy target.

It doesn't matter if they are openly armed or not. A hand strike to the right region can render unconscious, or worse. 12' rule and all...

The first shooting involving a TX CHL holder was a guy shooting another, unarmed guy who was hitting him. It was ruled a clean shoot and provides some precedence.

April 22, 2005, 12:53 PM	#77
John Ringo Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Location: Washington DC Posts: 379	This is an interesting thread. Personally, I am a 2nd degree black belt in TSD and am in pretty good shape. But, I will not engage in a fist fight with some idiot out in a parking lot. I've seen too many street fights go bad with a lucky punch or kick. I would be more inclined to OC-spray the idiot and then call the Police. Of course I would draw my firearm if there was a threat of violence that OC couldn't resolve....like several people trying to mug me. JR __________________ Regards, John Ringo "I like these calm little moments before the storm (Stansfield, The Professional)."

April 22, 2005, 01:19 PM	#79
vidme Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2005 Posts: 23	You are stupid to post thusly. Anything on the net stays on record forever. Anyone can be tracked back from a post, and any group of guys who SAY you pointed a gun at them carry more wt in most courts. than your sole voice. The fact that you are dumb enough to show guys a gun (that you don't have in HAND yet) shows how much you really know about the subject.

April 22, 2005, 02:09 PM	#81
bastiat Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2001 Posts: 1,771	BTW - I think Gunkid may be back... cough cough __________________ Flashbunny.org - Pro-Freedom Propaganda Politically Incorrect & Pro-Gun Stuff To Buy

April 22, 2005, 07:49 PM	#85
BigBoreKindaGuy Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Posts: 175	To Edward429451 - I think you were justified to motion the pull or even to pull it all the way out given the fact that you are in essence protecting your defenseless unborn child. The slight physical assault against your wife could have caused a miscarriage. Those thugs should be counting their blessings. I'm glad the situation worked out for you and your wife. __________________ BigBoreKindaGuy

April 22, 2005, 09:44 PM	#86
BlueSteel Junior Member Join Date: April 18, 2005 Posts: 3	Is it life or death situation? I think the only situation for shooting some one is in a "life or death" situation and you are certain that sever bodily harm or death could result if you were not to use your sidearm. Sometimes you don't know for certain. It is best to try to avoid a confrontation, especially if guns are drawn.... how do you know he doesn't have one too?

April 5, 2005, 06:07 AM	#76
crashresidue Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Posts: 48	Cheers, WOW - this one is goning to be "food for thought" for a while! My story is - about a decade ago, my wife, new dog and I were returning from an out of state contract. We'd stopped in a "middle class" motel for the night. I took "Mouse" out for her evening walk and was approached by a group of drunken "latinos" stating very loudly that "this nice white man" was going to "loan" them all the money I had in my wallet. "Mouse" (a Blue Healer) had already assumed the "attack" stance. I flipped back my shirt, showing them a holstered weapon and stated "I don't DO warning shots!" "When this clears the holster, it'll be smokin - but I wonder just how many of you I'll get - and how many the dog will?" It STOPPED right then/there. If you're "scared" enough to let a BG get within fist range - I've got to wonder just how scared you are of taking another life? Is it worth YOURS? Yea, I'm one of those "deranged Viet Vets" - but I decided a LONG time ago - my life/family's is worth more to me than their's is! If "displaying" a weapon is a CRIME in the state you live in - MOVE! On another forum, my "signature" reads - "Never threaten with a weapon - when it clears leather - it best be smokin!" I stand by that. I don't "intimadate" worth a f*ck - if I feel I need to threaten in response, I'll just use it. Sorry for the "rant" Gentle winds, cr

April 22, 2005, 07:05 PM	#84
CastleBravo Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 1999 Posts: 2,144	It seems like this topic has wandered around a bit. So I'll address a few of the things bouncing around here. No way in hell I'm getting in a hand-to-hand fight with some scumbag if I can avoid it. No f'ing way. If I can just leave the scene, I will. Definitely. If not, the weapon comes out, and if the sight of the weapon doesn't stop the attack promptly, it gets used until the threat is gone. I don't say that to sound macho... actually, the opposite. I say that because I know that hand-to-hand encounters can easily get you crippled or killed. Blindness is only an eye gouge away, and assuming some scumbag will fight fair is literally suicidal... thugs don't keep up on their Marquis of Queensbury rules, they try to twist your nuts off and rupture your eardrums. This assumption that an unarmed attack is not a deadly one is foolish in the extreme, and of course it assumes that just becuase you don't see a weapon, they don't have one. Again, foolish in the extreme. Let me repeat that for emphasis: an unarmed attack IS a deadly attack. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't seen a real fight. As for the original question... I'm going to do everything I can to avoid violent conflict. But if somebody won't let me avoid violent conflict, I'm sure as hell not fighting on their scumbag terms, I'm fighting on mine.

April 23, 2005, 11:29 AM	#87
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	Some interesting points, some germain, some not so much. Folks, careful about "what ifing" things too much. Then again, what's too much? Hinting may or may not be construed as brandinshing, may or may not be construed as threatening, and even assault at times depending on the totality of the facts and circumstances. I caution to treat hinting as a criminal act because the odds are better than even that the authorities will act as if it is. __________________ Meriam Webster's: Main Entry: ci·vil·ian Pronunciation: \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\, Function: noun, Date: 14th century, 1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law, 2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b: outsider 1, — civilian adjective

May 5, 2005, 03:59 PM	#89
techbrute Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 45	I've got a real simple answer to this. I'm not going to give away "the surprise" by hinting that I'm armed. I will do everything I can to evacuate and de-escalate, but when it comes down to it, I care about mine and me, I don't care about his and him. There will be a brief pause between the time the gun comes out and the time it fires. During that brief pause, I will be reading his eyes. His eyes had better do a whole lot of talking, and they better be saying, "Oh crap, how fast can I get away?" If I draw, it will be to shoot, and it will be a surprise to everyone around me. __________________ *Opinion worth what you paid.

May 6, 2005, 05:58 PM	#90
Bullrock Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2004 Posts: 2,686	techbrute I do see your point, but I think I would hint if the situation was coming down to clearing leather. At that point to hint is another attempt to avoid, and both people get to walk away. The element of suprise is important, but if he's not carrying you don't want to pull, and shoot. If he is openly armed then only speed matters. If your not sure if he's armed, hinting may be a way to find out, and if he is, then only speed matters! Huh???? I never cease to confuse myself

May 6, 2005, 06:53 PM	#91
techbrute Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 45	Bullrock, It's different for different people. I'm not all that big, but at 6', 220#, I have to figure that if they are screwing with me, they are serious. If I was 5'6" and 140 pounds, they might just be pushing me because I look like an easy target. It doesn't matter if they are openly armed or not. A hand strike to the right region can render unconscious, or worse. 12' rule and all... The first shooting involving a TX CHL holder was a guy shooting another, unarmed guy who was hitting him. It was ruled a clean shoot and provides some precedence. __________________ *Opinion worth what you paid.