Redo finish on mosin nagant.

Nick9130White · January 31, 2011, 12:00 PM

I was wondering if redoing the finish is frowned upon, like sporterizing the mosin nagant?
Cause my finish isn't terrible, it's just bad and I'd like to redo it. What kind of finish should I use on a 43 Russian nagant?

Tikirocker · January 31, 2011, 12:51 PM

Mosin Nagants were finished in Shellac ... with age and time the Shellac goes brittle and can flake off - it scratches easily and can look messy fast with knocks and scrapes. It's not big thing to re-apply shellac, but I decided to strip mine off and just give it the BLO ( Boiled Linseed Oil ) which is the standard finish for Lee Enfields.

Tiki.

Nick9130White · January 31, 2011, 01:09 PM

Will it look different in the end? And would I use sand paper to get off all the stuff on it now?

Tikirocker · January 31, 2011, 01:26 PM

Shellac leaves a glossy type of finish, BLO as applied for Enfields is generally buffed out for a semi gloss or matt finish. You can apply BLO and let it build up so that it appears glossy, just don't knock back the finish with #0000 steel wool - or you could always go Tung Oil as another option. No sanding is required to remove shellac ...

Try this thread from one of my fellow Mods at Surplus ... http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/vie...?f=137&t=77501

Tiki.

Nick9130White · January 31, 2011, 01:36 PM

Oh, thank you very much!
Another question, how would I get the dings out?

Tikirocker · January 31, 2011, 02:24 PM

Dings are one of those things that many collectors like to leave in place, this is called battle character or patina. Dings are like scars, they tell the story of a rifle and there is no small question as to removing them or leaving them in situ. If you care about the Military history and character of the Mosin, I'd leave them in place, without them the rifle has no story.

If you really want to remove them, you can try steaming them out but this is a time consuming method. Check the other threads in the forum link I left in the previous post ... it is the stock care forum and has zillions of tutorials on working with stocks.

Best, Tiki.

Nick9130White · January 31, 2011, 04:11 PM

That's a good point. I'll just take off the shellac.

emcon5 · January 31, 2011, 05:23 PM

I can't remember where I saw it, probably in Surplus Rifle forum, but there was a thread from a guy who contacted Tula and according to their records, Mosin Nagants were built with both Shellac and oiled finishes.

I will look for it, but if I recall correctly, his conclusion was that they all got shellac when they got reworked at the Soviet arsenals over the years.

I plan on stripping mine, but need to wait for the weather to improve.

The easiest way to remove shellac is denatured alcohol and 0000 steel wool. It will come right off without damaging the wood, or any markings on it.

And if you don't like it, you can just slap another coat of ugly-arse shellac on it.

jsmaye · February 1, 2011, 12:28 PM

Since alcohol is a solvent of shellac, you don't even need to use the steel wool.

FALPhil · February 2, 2011, 05:55 AM

Here's a tip:

Tung oil and tung mixes are easier to apply than BLO and hold up better over time. Here are a couple of pics of a Mosin that has been refinished in tung.

LDSGJA · February 2, 2011, 12:51 PM

Responding to your original question, I saw on the TV show "Pawn Stars" that any refinishing, cleaning, etc greatly reduces the value of classic firearms, but this was on guns that were well over 100 years old.

In this situation I don't know because when a gun is over a 100 years old its really just a collectors item, even if it can and does shoot.

But if your never going to sell it it probably doesn't matter either way.

Tikirocker · February 2, 2011, 02:28 PM

My M44 done with BLO and wax polished to seal it ... this finish has been on it for 5 years and has held up without any issues at all. BLO was good enough for the Military nations for 100 years ... good enough for me.

Tiki.

Nick9130White · February 5, 2011, 07:40 PM

Thank you for all your help, sorry for the late reply though.

Those guns, are gourgous.

What I want to do is take down all the gloss, keep the dings, but honestly, my finish looks like [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]. And the bayonet has scrached the barrel quite a bit so I also want to redo the black on the barrel. I think of it as restoring a car. Keep the internals the same, just make it like it came from the factory. How should I do the barrel?

Fullthrottle · February 5, 2011, 10:58 PM

Tikirocker, is that just strait BLO, no stain or dye? Looks very nice!

sirsloop · February 6, 2011, 12:11 AM

As far as I'm concerned you can do whatever you want to you guns. Its not like there are only 100 MN's in the world. There's been like 37 MILLION made

Originial shellac finish on my Izzy M44:

one can of brakleen and 10 minutes later:

I sanded it down taking care not to destroy any markings on it, ebony stained it multiple times, then put like 7 coats of wipe on poly on the stock. Its certainly not an original finish, but it made the gun look great.

The top piece was a different color and had a crack, so I took the opportunity to glue it together, sand it down, and stain match it to the rest of the stock.

sirsloop · February 6, 2011, 12:13 AM

the rifleer · February 6, 2011, 01:17 AM

What did you use to remove the original finish?

Tikirocker · February 6, 2011, 01:31 AM

Quote:

ikirocker, is that just strait BLO, no stain or dye? Looks very nice!

Original Mosin Nagant Shellac is supposed to give a reddish tint to the stock ... when you remove the shellac the wood does not have the same red tone. Knowing that I was not going to bother with shellac ever again, I wanted to maintain the traditional look of the M44 and gave the stock a very light wash of rosewood spirit dye followed by several coats of BLO and a wax polish for protection. Basically I got the rifle to look the same as it did with shellac but without the problems of shellac.

Cheers, Tiki.

Nick9130White · February 6, 2011, 01:34 AM

Damn, that looks amazing. I figured out how I'm going to stain it! What grit sand paper did you use?
Oh, and in your last picture, is that a Remington 870 ok the table next to you?

sirsloop · February 6, 2011, 01:46 AM

A can of non-chlorine brakleen took the shellac off with surprising ease. The stuff flowed off like a river! HA! The "blond" photo was taken immediately after taking off the shellac... basic spray and wipe down with a rag. I hadn't sanded at all but it was already down to the bare wood. I probably started with 120 grit on areas that were a little rougher, switched to 200, then 400 for final sanding. I did sand the gun down with 0000 steel wool in between coats of stain/poly to help prevent orange peel. Wipe down with mineral spirits before applying any new stain/poly, wait till its dry, then apply.

Yeah that's my 870 on the table... probably was runnin 00 buck and slugs through it...

sirsloop · February 6, 2011, 01:54 AM

Another mod I recommend doing is a trigger spring and washer mod. Notice the small washer under the main trigger spring. That basically reduces the trigger tension, and moves where the trigger will break in the pull of the trigger. The thickness of that washer is extremely important as too fat and you can cause the gun to fire without touching the trigger. I test fit it a number of times and had to hammer down the washer on an anvil to take a couple thousands off the thickness. A lot of trial and error... and be sure to bang the gun around a little bit to simulate you dropping it, etc. If it fires, its NO GOOD, and the washer must be thinned. Obviously I'm not doing that loaded... I just clear the barrel, put the bolt in, put it in battery, and bang the gun around in my hand a little to try to get the thing to break.

So that mod creates another problem where the trigger will flap around all loosey goosey. To fix that, there are return spring kits sold on the net that put a small amount of forward tension on the trigger. You can see that spring coiled around the shaft that holds the trigger on. Its kinda like a mouse trap spring and gives the trigger a REALLY nice feel to it. You get a little tension from that spring as you squeeze, then when you hit the main spring the tension increases and the gun breaks with minimal creep. Its basically a 2 stage trigger and is a vast improvement over the stock creepy high tension trigger.

sirsloop · February 6, 2011, 02:02 AM

Then while you are at it you can bed the action, and sand down the inside of the stock to float the barrel.... a little car wax and JB Weld to bed the action!

Hit up the lettering with white crayon, and you have a looker!!

If you want to improve the ol irons, I recommend these MOJO aperture sights. Really nice bolt on for your MN.

sirsloop · February 6, 2011, 02:10 AM

btw, I had to ebony stain that stock with like 10 coats to get it that dark. I would put on a coat and let it sit for 15 minutes, wipe off the excess, let dry for 12 hours. I'd come back at lunch 12 hours later and rub it down with 0000 steel wool, lightly clean it with mineral spirits, let dry for 5 minutes, then restain. I was done when I achieved the level of stain I wanted after rubbing it down with 0000 and wiping down with mineral spirits. You're putting stain on, and taking some off... but if you use 0000 steel wool you're just taking the stuff off that hasn't penetrated the wood.

Nick9130White · February 6, 2011, 03:00 AM

Sirsloop, how do I make a floating barrel, and what does it do?

sirsloop · February 6, 2011, 10:18 AM

The idea is that if parts of the stock are touching the barrel, it can put pressure on the barrel that will cause accuracy to drop when the barrel is heated up. There are tons of youtube and internet articles that describe how to do it... you basically sand out the inside of the stock so the barrel is not touching the wood. This usually goes hand in hand with bedding the receiver, so the receiver is completely locked to the stock, but the barrel is not touching anything.

http://www.freesteader.com/forums/in...p?showtopic=14

January 31, 2011, 12:00 PM	#1
Nick9130White Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: California. Posts: 234	Redo finish on mosin nagant. I was wondering if redoing the finish is frowned upon, like sporterizing the mosin nagant? Cause my finish isn't terrible, it's just bad and I'd like to redo it. What kind of finish should I use on a 43 Russian nagant? __________________ Counting the days til next duck season.

January 31, 2011, 12:51 PM	#2
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	Mosin Nagants were finished in Shellac ... with age and time the Shellac goes brittle and can flake off - it scratches easily and can look messy fast with knocks and scrapes. It's not big thing to re-apply shellac, but I decided to strip mine off and just give it the BLO ( Boiled Linseed Oil ) which is the standard finish for Lee Enfields. Tiki. __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

January 31, 2011, 01:09 PM	#3
Nick9130White Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: California. Posts: 234	Will it look different in the end? And would I use sand paper to get off all the stuff on it now? __________________ Counting the days til next duck season.

January 31, 2011, 01:26 PM	#4
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	Shellac leaves a glossy type of finish, BLO as applied for Enfields is generally buffed out for a semi gloss or matt finish. You can apply BLO and let it build up so that it appears glossy, just don't knock back the finish with #0000 steel wool - or you could always go Tung Oil as another option. No sanding is required to remove shellac ... Try this thread from one of my fellow Mods at Surplus ... http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/vie...?f=137&t=77501 Tiki. __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

January 31, 2011, 01:36 PM	#5
Nick9130White Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: California. Posts: 234	Oh, thank you very much! Another question, how would I get the dings out? __________________ Counting the days til next duck season.

January 31, 2011, 02:24 PM	#6
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	Dings are one of those things that many collectors like to leave in place, this is called battle character or patina. Dings are like scars, they tell the story of a rifle and there is no small question as to removing them or leaving them in situ. If you care about the Military history and character of the Mosin, I'd leave them in place, without them the rifle has no story. If you really want to remove them, you can try steaming them out but this is a time consuming method. Check the other threads in the forum link I left in the previous post ... it is the stock care forum and has zillions of tutorials on working with stocks. Best, Tiki. __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

January 31, 2011, 04:11 PM	#7
Nick9130White Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: California. Posts: 234	That's a good point. I'll just take off the shellac. __________________ Counting the days til next duck season.

January 31, 2011, 05:23 PM	#8
emcon5 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 1999 Location: High Desert NV Posts: 2,850	I can't remember where I saw it, probably in Surplus Rifle forum, but there was a thread from a guy who contacted Tula and according to their records, Mosin Nagants were built with both Shellac and oiled finishes. I will look for it, but if I recall correctly, his conclusion was that they all got shellac when they got reworked at the Soviet arsenals over the years. I plan on stripping mine, but need to wait for the weather to improve. The easiest way to remove shellac is denatured alcohol and 0000 steel wool. It will come right off without damaging the wood, or any markings on it. And if you don't like it, you can just slap another coat of ugly-arse shellac on it.

February 1, 2011, 12:28 PM	#9
jsmaye Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Location: Amarillo, Tx Posts: 616	Since alcohol is a solvent of shellac, you don't even need to use the steel wool. __________________ No matter how big and tough you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone you'll answer it.

February 2, 2011, 05:55 AM	#10
FALPhil Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2007 Location: Racoon City Posts: 934	Here's a tip: Tung oil and tung mixes are easier to apply than BLO and hold up better over time. Here are a couple of pics of a Mosin that has been refinished in tung.

February 2, 2011, 12:51 PM	#11
LDSGJA Member Join Date: January 27, 2011 Location: Inland Empire, CA Posts: 70	Responding to your original question, I saw on the TV show "Pawn Stars" that any refinishing, cleaning, etc greatly reduces the value of classic firearms, but this was on guns that were well over 100 years old. In this situation I don't know because when a gun is over a 100 years old its really just a collectors item, even if it can and does shoot. But if your never going to sell it it probably doesn't matter either way.

February 2, 2011, 02:28 PM	#12
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	My M44 done with BLO and wax polished to seal it ... this finish has been on it for 5 years and has held up without any issues at all. BLO was good enough for the Military nations for 100 years ... good enough for me. Tiki. __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

February 5, 2011, 07:40 PM	#13
Nick9130White Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: California. Posts: 234	Thank you for all your help, sorry for the late reply though. Those guns, are gourgous. What I want to do is take down all the gloss, keep the dings, but honestly, my finish looks like [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]. And the bayonet has scrached the barrel quite a bit so I also want to redo the black on the barrel. I think of it as restoring a car. Keep the internals the same, just make it like it came from the factory. How should I do the barrel? __________________ Counting the days til next duck season.

February 5, 2011, 10:58 PM	#14
Fullthrottle Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2009 Posts: 280	Tikirocker, is that just strait BLO, no stain or dye? Looks very nice! __________________ When seconds count, why is help minutes away?

February 6, 2011, 12:11 AM	#15
sirsloop Junior member Join Date: January 13, 2011 Posts: 376	As far as I'm concerned you can do whatever you want to you guns. Its not like there are only 100 MN's in the world. There's been like 37 MILLION made Originial shellac finish on my Izzy M44: one can of brakleen and 10 minutes later: I sanded it down taking care not to destroy any markings on it, ebony stained it multiple times, then put like 7 coats of wipe on poly on the stock. Its certainly not an original finish, but it made the gun look great. The top piece was a different color and had a crack, so I took the opportunity to glue it together, sand it down, and stain match it to the rest of the stock. Last edited by sirsloop; February 6, 2011 at 02:05 AM.

February 6, 2011, 12:13 AM	#16
sirsloop Junior member Join Date: January 13, 2011 Posts: 376

February 6, 2011, 01:17 AM	#17
the rifleer Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2008 Location: Sunny California Posts: 1,281	What did you use to remove the original finish? __________________ There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.

February 6, 2011, 01:34 AM	#19
Nick9130White Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: California. Posts: 234	Damn, that looks amazing. I figured out how I'm going to stain it! What grit sand paper did you use? Oh, and in your last picture, is that a Remington 870 ok the table next to you? __________________ Counting the days til next duck season.

February 6, 2011, 01:46 AM	#20
sirsloop Junior member Join Date: January 13, 2011 Posts: 376	A can of non-chlorine brakleen took the shellac off with surprising ease. The stuff flowed off like a river! HA! The "blond" photo was taken immediately after taking off the shellac... basic spray and wipe down with a rag. I hadn't sanded at all but it was already down to the bare wood. I probably started with 120 grit on areas that were a little rougher, switched to 200, then 400 for final sanding. I did sand the gun down with 0000 steel wool in between coats of stain/poly to help prevent orange peel. Wipe down with mineral spirits before applying any new stain/poly, wait till its dry, then apply. Yeah that's my 870 on the table... probably was runnin 00 buck and slugs through it... Last edited by sirsloop; February 6, 2011 at 02:15 AM.

February 6, 2011, 01:54 AM	#21
sirsloop Junior member Join Date: January 13, 2011 Posts: 376	Another mod I recommend doing is a trigger spring and washer mod. Notice the small washer under the main trigger spring. That basically reduces the trigger tension, and moves where the trigger will break in the pull of the trigger. The thickness of that washer is extremely important as too fat and you can cause the gun to fire without touching the trigger. I test fit it a number of times and had to hammer down the washer on an anvil to take a couple thousands off the thickness. A lot of trial and error... and be sure to bang the gun around a little bit to simulate you dropping it, etc. If it fires, its NO GOOD, and the washer must be thinned. Obviously I'm not doing that loaded... I just clear the barrel, put the bolt in, put it in battery, and bang the gun around in my hand a little to try to get the thing to break. So that mod creates another problem where the trigger will flap around all loosey goosey. To fix that, there are return spring kits sold on the net that put a small amount of forward tension on the trigger. You can see that spring coiled around the shaft that holds the trigger on. Its kinda like a mouse trap spring and gives the trigger a REALLY nice feel to it. You get a little tension from that spring as you squeeze, then when you hit the main spring the tension increases and the gun breaks with minimal creep. Its basically a 2 stage trigger and is a vast improvement over the stock creepy high tension trigger. Last edited by sirsloop; February 6, 2011 at 02:16 AM.

February 6, 2011, 02:02 AM	#22
sirsloop Junior member Join Date: January 13, 2011 Posts: 376	Then while you are at it you can bed the action, and sand down the inside of the stock to float the barrel.... a little car wax and JB Weld to bed the action! Hit up the lettering with white crayon, and you have a looker!! If you want to improve the ol irons, I recommend these MOJO aperture sights. Really nice bolt on for your MN.

February 6, 2011, 02:10 AM	#23
sirsloop Junior member Join Date: January 13, 2011 Posts: 376	btw, I had to ebony stain that stock with like 10 coats to get it that dark. I would put on a coat and let it sit for 15 minutes, wipe off the excess, let dry for 12 hours. I'd come back at lunch 12 hours later and rub it down with 0000 steel wool, lightly clean it with mineral spirits, let dry for 5 minutes, then restain. I was done when I achieved the level of stain I wanted after rubbing it down with 0000 and wiping down with mineral spirits. You're putting stain on, and taking some off... but if you use 0000 steel wool you're just taking the stuff off that hasn't penetrated the wood.

February 6, 2011, 03:00 AM	#24
Nick9130White Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: California. Posts: 234	Sirsloop, how do I make a floating barrel, and what does it do? __________________ Counting the days til next duck season.

February 6, 2011, 10:18 AM	#25
sirsloop Junior member Join Date: January 13, 2011 Posts: 376	The idea is that if parts of the stock are touching the barrel, it can put pressure on the barrel that will cause accuracy to drop when the barrel is heated up. There are tons of youtube and internet articles that describe how to do it... you basically sand out the inside of the stock so the barrel is not touching the wood. This usually goes hand in hand with bedding the receiver, so the receiver is completely locked to the stock, but the barrel is not touching anything. http://www.freesteader.com/forums/in...p?showtopic=14