Rem 870 new style safety

shooter63 · December 6, 2000, 11:21 PM

I just picked up a new Rem 870 Marine Magnum and it has the new "keyed" safety. I am wondering if it can be replaced with a old style safety or if I need to find a old style trigger housing. If it needs a old style trigger housing where can I purchase one. The gun shop I purchased it from said the safety could not be replaced with a old style safety and I couldn't order from Rem a new old style trigger housing but they are not always the most knowledgeable. If this has been covered in previous posts I apolgize but I can't get the search feature to work. Thanks and DVC
Jimmy

Dave McC · December 7, 2000, 06:02 AM

Jimmy, I talked to Remington about this a little while ago. They will not sell an old style safety, but one will interchange. I suggest an aftermarket one, like Scattergun Tech's.

Due to this, the trend towards plastic parts,and the way too PC attitude that seems to prevail among Remington brass,some of us think USED 870s are a better deal than ever before.

nedfig · December 7, 2000, 11:07 AM

I just put one of Vang Comp's safeties on my 870. $10 plus $1 shipping.

vangcomp.com

HukeOKC · December 7, 2000, 11:33 AM

Questions...You have a safety that can be locked in the on position but if you don't want to use it you can unclock it and throw away the key.
1) Will you ever want to use a trigger lock on this gun?

2) Why is it too PC for a gun company to put a locking safety on a trigger assembly but not too PC for them to supply a trigger lock?

That feature is not a bad idea at all IMO. Now if the only way to use the weapon was with the key I could understand your frustration, but since you can unlock it and never have to look at the key again, why is it such a big deal. I have heard the argument that "Oh if a gun manufacturer shows that they can do this then the Gov't will never stop trying to get more", they are going to keep coming after us no matter what we do. I guess I am just sick of hearing the complaints about this locking safety system when it is not a feature that you have to use.

sjones · December 7, 2000, 11:39 AM

I ordered a big head safety from brownells and installed it in about 10 minutes. all you have to do is drop the trigger and replace the safety.

Dave McC · December 7, 2000, 11:54 AM

Huke, there's reports that the unlocked safety can and has been manipulated to ON unintentionally,which requires key unlocking. That's not a great idea in the middle of a crisis.

HukeOKC · December 7, 2000, 12:03 PM

I've messed with it a few times and I can't see how that can be done. You are right though, that would be worthless if it could happen. When I have inserted the "key" though it seems that it has to go in very far before you can opertate the safety. I am working tonight at me Sporting Goods job and I'll try it out and see if I can get it to switch to safe by accident. Do you have some links where I can read about those reports?

HukeOKC · December 7, 2000, 12:04 PM

My first double-tap!!! The board seems to be slow right now.

greg c · December 7, 2000, 02:01 PM

It would be hard to do accidentally, but if I *pinch* both ends of the safety between my fingers, I can easily rotate it to locked position without the key in place. The SG is an 870 MM.

HukeOKC · December 7, 2000, 02:05 PM

Hmmmm....that sucks.

shooter63 · December 7, 2000, 09:42 PM

Thanks for the info, I do want to replace it. I was taught and teach that a safety on a gun is a mechanical device that can fail to function properly for a multitude of reasons and should never be used as a replacement for proper safe gun handling habits. In my opinion if you need to "lock" a gun then you need to do something more responsible than rely on a mechanical safety. I shutter to think that someone would mistakenly rely only on this "locking" safety as a subsitute for being responsible for using safe and responsible gun handling and storage to prevent a accident. Additionally I believe that by making the safety more mechanically complicated it will only increase the potential of the safety failing and therefore reduce the reliability of the gun

HukeOKC · December 8, 2000, 09:11 AM

Quote:

I shutter to think that someone would mistakenly rely only on this "locking" safety as a subsitute for being responsible for using safe and responsible gun handling and storage to prevent a accident.

Shutter away then. You bought a Remington probably because you trusted their product and believed that it would be reliable at ALL times. But you don't trust their safety? I can see that I am alone on this safety lock system on the Remington and that is fine. But have any of you done a complete testing of this "J-lock" safety before you discard it as too PC and not worthy of your trust. It seems to me that Remington wouldn't put this product out if they didn't think it could stand up to their consumers expectations. I say give it a chance. And if you honestly think that anyone on this thread has mentioned that because these guns have this lock that they can be stored or handled "less" carefully, then you are sadly mistaken. I've read a couple of threads on this locking safety and I have YET to see someone say that they had done a real field test of it's reliability. All they do is bash it for being too PC and not trustworthy.

shooter63- Since you are going to replace it anyways, why don't you give it a good field test and tell us what you find. I don't really care if you replace it or not. I don't even care if Remington stops putting them on their guns. But I do care that nobody gives a product from Remington a chance before discarding it as trash.

greg c · December 8, 2000, 01:00 PM

Hugh,

In terms of real world reliability, I for one have flipped the safety on/off and thrown my 870 MM in the Arizona sand more times than I care to recount here during outdoor run and gun exercises, and have never had the safety get *locked* on me. As I speculated in my previous post, I believe that it would be very difficult to lock the safety on accident- I just noted that it was possible if you were deliberate about it.

I think I have not stated my personal position clearly enough here. I don't *hate* the safety or Remington, but it is an option that I personally do not need. Still love my MM. It's an ultrareliable kick a** SG.

Ease up, bud.

Alfadog · December 8, 2000, 01:01 PM

Anybody know whether Remington is shipping 870 Police guns with the locking safety? If not, why not? The answers to those questions will tell you a lot about how reliable and goof-proof Remington thinks the locking safety is.

HukeOKC · December 8, 2000, 01:19 PM

greg c,

I guess by "hugh" you meant me..but I really wasn't aiming anything at you in particular. I just don't have the $ to go out and buy a new 870 and test out this locking system myself and I am hoping that I could get some better thoughts on it besides "It's too PC" or it's "a substitute for proper gun safety" not exact quotes, but things I have heard here and other places. You seem to have put it through some "testing" and had no problem with it. That is the kind of thing I would like to hear but usually don't.
Sorry if I am coming on too strong and being a little forceful with the issue but since I have to sell these guns occassionally and I have customers who ask me about it, I would like to have SOME advice and not just the previous opinions. Once again I am not really trying to offend anyone and please let me know if I do.

greg c · December 8, 2000, 08:48 PM

Huke,

Sorry about the name thing.

I'm glad that as a gun dealer you try to stay informed about what you sell. Cheers to you. As for offending people, well, it's hard to hear inflection while reading off these tiny pixels, so my bad if I picked up on something that was not there.

Anyone else with opinions on the safety?

HukeOKC · December 9, 2000, 01:39 AM

Well I do get a little excited over it only because I want to hear the "real" deal on these things before I just take someones opinion. I'm not really a dealer, I just work PT at Wal-Mart in Sporting Goods and I have a lot of people that ask me about this new locking system. I don't want to tell them it's a piece of junk if it's actually a nice feature. I have no problem with it so far.

Tonight I was at work and took out one of the 870's with the new lock on it. You were right about it being able to be moved into lock by your fingers and that can be done easily. Once it is locked though you HAVE to have the key to unlock it. And I agree that you would really be hard put to do it by accident. My only concern with it would be reliability since the new trigger assemblies are made with plastic parts. I would love some further input on this though. Alfadog has a very good point too. That would be very interesting.

greg c, no problem on the name deal and I think we have come to a good understanding.

Elmo · December 10, 2000, 01:50 AM

I really, really tried to twist the safety on my 870 into the locked position last night and simply could not do it.

I recall an e-mail on one of the training mailing lists which said Remington had acknowledged the problem and corrected it. This was not very long ago. It was actually the first I'd heard of the problem, as a matter of fact.

I'd check Remington's FAQ, but their site appears to be down at the moment. Maybe a phone call is in order?

old hawk · December 10, 2000, 08:40 AM

try my 870 page, covered alot on it, i went off on that damned saftey,this will shed some light so read thru it carefully.also note that for the new vang safety you will need the older ball and spring in the detent NOT the new plunger style oval faced one as used now in my 870 express mag, old safetys WILL work provided you use the ball and spring.i will have to call remington on that one,my 870 is 4 months old AND twists on........
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/2997/870.html

December 7, 2000, 11:07 AM	#3
nedfig Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2000 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 263	vang comp safety I just put one of Vang Comp's safeties on my 870. $10 plus $1 shipping. vangcomp.com

December 7, 2000, 11:39 AM	#5
sjones Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 1999 Location: waxahachie,Texas Posts: 337	870 safety I ordered a big head safety from brownells and installed it in about 10 minutes. all you have to do is drop the trigger and replace the safety.

December 8, 2000, 01:01 PM	#14
Alfadog Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 1999 Location: Brandon, FL USA Posts: 102	Anybody know whether Remington is shipping 870 Police guns with the locking safety? If not, why not? The answers to those questions will tell you a lot about how reliable and goof-proof Remington thinks the locking safety is. __________________ "Above all, we must realize that no arsenal or no weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women."--Ronald Reagan

December 6, 2000, 11:21 PM	#1
shooter63 Junior Member Join Date: February 3, 2000 Posts: 10	I just picked up a new Rem 870 Marine Magnum and it has the new "keyed" safety. I am wondering if it can be replaced with a old style safety or if I need to find a old style trigger housing. If it needs a old style trigger housing where can I purchase one. The gun shop I purchased it from said the safety could not be replaced with a old style safety and I couldn't order from Rem a new old style trigger housing but they are not always the most knowledgeable. If this has been covered in previous posts I apolgize but I can't get the search feature to work. Thanks and DVC Jimmy

December 7, 2000, 06:02 AM	#2
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Jimmy, I talked to Remington about this a little while ago. They will not sell an old style safety, but one will interchange. I suggest an aftermarket one, like Scattergun Tech's. Due to this, the trend towards plastic parts,and the way too PC attitude that seems to prevail among Remington brass,some of us think USED 870s are a better deal than ever before.

December 7, 2000, 11:33 AM	#4
HukeOKC Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2000 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 347	Questions...You have a safety that can be locked in the on position but if you don't want to use it you can unclock it and throw away the key. 1) Will you ever want to use a trigger lock on this gun? 2) Why is it too PC for a gun company to put a locking safety on a trigger assembly but not too PC for them to supply a trigger lock? That feature is not a bad idea at all IMO. Now if the only way to use the weapon was with the key I could understand your frustration, but since you can unlock it and never have to look at the key again, why is it such a big deal. I have heard the argument that "Oh if a gun manufacturer shows that they can do this then the Gov't will never stop trying to get more", they are going to keep coming after us no matter what we do. I guess I am just sick of hearing the complaints about this locking safety system when it is not a feature that you have to use.

December 7, 2000, 11:54 AM	#6
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Huke, there's reports that the unlocked safety can and has been manipulated to ON unintentionally,which requires key unlocking. That's not a great idea in the middle of a crisis.

December 7, 2000, 12:03 PM	#7
HukeOKC Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2000 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 347	I've messed with it a few times and I can't see how that can be done. You are right though, that would be worthless if it could happen. When I have inserted the "key" though it seems that it has to go in very far before you can opertate the safety. I am working tonight at me Sporting Goods job and I'll try it out and see if I can get it to switch to safe by accident. Do you have some links where I can read about those reports?

December 7, 2000, 12:04 PM	#8
HukeOKC Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2000 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 347	My first double-tap!!! The board seems to be slow right now.

December 7, 2000, 02:01 PM	#9
greg c Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2000 Location: Phoenix Az Posts: 113	It would be hard to do accidentally, but if I pinch both ends of the safety between my fingers, I can easily rotate it to locked position without the key in place. The SG is an 870 MM.

December 7, 2000, 02:05 PM	#10
HukeOKC Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2000 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 347	Hmmmm....that sucks.

December 7, 2000, 09:42 PM	#11
shooter63 Junior Member Join Date: February 3, 2000 Posts: 10	Thanks for the info, I do want to replace it. I was taught and teach that a safety on a gun is a mechanical device that can fail to function properly for a multitude of reasons and should never be used as a replacement for proper safe gun handling habits. In my opinion if you need to "lock" a gun then you need to do something more responsible than rely on a mechanical safety. I shutter to think that someone would mistakenly rely only on this "locking" safety as a subsitute for being responsible for using safe and responsible gun handling and storage to prevent a accident. Additionally I believe that by making the safety more mechanically complicated it will only increase the potential of the safety failing and therefore reduce the reliability of the gun

December 8, 2000, 01:00 PM	#13
greg c Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2000 Location: Phoenix Az Posts: 113	Hugh, In terms of real world reliability, I for one have flipped the safety on/off and thrown my 870 MM in the Arizona sand more times than I care to recount here during outdoor run and gun exercises, and have never had the safety get locked on me. As I speculated in my previous post, I believe that it would be very difficult to lock the safety on accident- I just noted that it was possible if you were deliberate about it. I think I have not stated my personal position clearly enough here. I don't hate the safety or Remington, but it is an option that I personally do not need. Still love my MM. It's an ultrareliable kick a** SG. Ease up, bud.

December 8, 2000, 01:19 PM	#15
HukeOKC Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2000 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 347	greg c, I guess by "hugh" you meant me..but I really wasn't aiming anything at you in particular. I just don't have the $ to go out and buy a new 870 and test out this locking system myself and I am hoping that I could get some better thoughts on it besides "It's too PC" or it's "a substitute for proper gun safety" not exact quotes, but things I have heard here and other places. You seem to have put it through some "testing" and had no problem with it. That is the kind of thing I would like to hear but usually don't. Sorry if I am coming on too strong and being a little forceful with the issue but since I have to sell these guns occassionally and I have customers who ask me about it, I would like to have SOME advice and not just the previous opinions. Once again I am not really trying to offend anyone and please let me know if I do.

December 8, 2000, 08:48 PM	#16
greg c Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2000 Location: Phoenix Az Posts: 113	Huke, Sorry about the name thing. I'm glad that as a gun dealer you try to stay informed about what you sell. Cheers to you. As for offending people, well, it's hard to hear inflection while reading off these tiny pixels, so my bad if I picked up on something that was not there. Anyone else with opinions on the safety?

December 9, 2000, 01:39 AM	#17
HukeOKC Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2000 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 347	Well I do get a little excited over it only because I want to hear the "real" deal on these things before I just take someones opinion. I'm not really a dealer, I just work PT at Wal-Mart in Sporting Goods and I have a lot of people that ask me about this new locking system. I don't want to tell them it's a piece of junk if it's actually a nice feature. I have no problem with it so far. Tonight I was at work and took out one of the 870's with the new lock on it. You were right about it being able to be moved into lock by your fingers and that can be done easily. Once it is locked though you HAVE to have the key to unlock it. And I agree that you would really be hard put to do it by accident. My only concern with it would be reliability since the new trigger assemblies are made with plastic parts. I would love some further input on this though. Alfadog has a very good point too. That would be very interesting. greg c, no problem on the name deal and I think we have come to a good understanding.

December 10, 2000, 01:50 AM	#18
Elmo Member Join Date: June 16, 2000 Posts: 96	I really, really tried to twist the safety on my 870 into the locked position last night and simply could not do it. I recall an e-mail on one of the training mailing lists which said Remington had acknowledged the problem and corrected it. This was not very long ago. It was actually the first I'd heard of the problem, as a matter of fact. I'd check Remington's FAQ, but their site appears to be down at the moment. Maybe a phone call is in order?

December 10, 2000, 08:40 AM	#19
old hawk Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2000 Location: somewhere,maine. Posts: 175	try my 870 page, covered alot on it, i went off on that damned saftey,this will shed some light so read thru it carefully.also note that for the new vang safety you will need the older ball and spring in the detent NOT the new plunger style oval faced one as used now in my 870 express mag, old safetys WILL work provided you use the ball and spring.i will have to call remington on that one,my 870 is 4 months old AND twists on........ http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/2997/870.html