It's Pretty But . . .

Prof Young · July 14, 2013, 12:22 PM

Shooters:

This is make by Keystone Sporting Arms, who have apparently been bought by the same people who make the chipmunk and cricket rifles. It's called the Hunter Pistol. It's 22 cal.

In spite of what the picture suggest it is ergonomically correct for shooting with the right hand.

First shot it at ten yards with open sights. Grouped pretty tight but nothing to say "wow" about.

Put the scope on it and move to 30 yards and the groups are a disappointing four to five inches.

Shot a variety of ammo through it. Only have about 100 rounds through it.

I've had some guns for which the groups tighten up the more I shoot them.

What think you?

For less than 200 bucks it's fun, but wish it shot better.

Live well be safe
Prof Young

allaroundhunter · July 14, 2013, 12:29 PM

What kind of ammo have you used? If you want it to shoot better grab some "match" ammo if you haven't tried it already.

s4s4u · July 14, 2013, 12:48 PM

Quote:

For less than 200 bucks it's fun, but wish it shot better.

That's been pretty much the consensus.

lee n. field · July 14, 2013, 12:56 PM

Quote:

This is make by Keystone Sporting Arms, who have apparently been bought by the same people who make the chipmunk and cricket rifles. It's called the Hunter Pistol. It's 22 cal.

In spite of what the picture suggest it is ergonomically correct for shooting with the right hand.

Sized for adults?

Quote:

For less than 200 bucks it's fun, but wish it shot better.

Price is right!

Quote:

What think you?

Interesting. Not quite a target gun (no precision iron sights). A precision plinker?

Yeah, I think I'd be trying different sorts of ammo with it.

Prof Young · July 14, 2013, 04:40 PM

Shooters

I shot winchester match grade, some remington golden and cci blazer. All grouped at 4 to 5 inches at 30 yards.

Yes, the gun fits an adult hand and was clearly designed with that in mind.

Live well, be safe
Prof Young

AirCool65 · July 14, 2013, 05:49 PM

It kind of reminds me of the Remington XP-100 that I had a long time ago, but I imagine that the XP-100 balanced a lot better.

Old Stony · July 14, 2013, 06:15 PM

The XP was a precision pistol, and I don't think you are dealing with that here.

kahrguy · July 14, 2013, 06:26 PM

I have had one of those for a few years with a 2-8 power scope . Will I had one , my youngest girl has it and it will shoot under an inch at 50 yards and 25 yard is easy to hold 3/8" groups.

Trigger not real good . Find a good quality standard velocity ammo , no speed stuff. I shot the same ammo I use iin my match rifle. wolf match .. federal 922a .

Aicooled , the XP is also a centerfire good for 400 yards with some 6 or 7mm BR ammo

DaleA · July 14, 2013, 07:03 PM

I thought of the Remington 100 also. I think the original Remington 100 was in .221 Fireball.

Side note: I remember there was some British spy novel that actually had a lot of correct information about guns in it that included the Remington as a super duper people killer hand gun. In another chapter it had info about a .375 H&H magnum rifle that made me want to get one of those too but I never did get either.

The thing looks a little like the Ruger Charger too although I hope the Charger would have better accuracy.

James K · July 14, 2013, 07:16 PM

.221 Fireball was a bit more impressive than .22 LR. There was a rumor at the time that Remington had a version of the XP-100 that had a different action and a 30 round magazine. .221 was not much as a rifle round but as an SMG round....

Jim

OkieCruffler · July 15, 2013, 02:58 AM

Biggest issue with those is the trigger, dismal is the first word that comes to mind. Still you should be able to get decent groups with the right ammo. I knew a fella who was making a trigger for them, a bunch of guys had gotten them to make a run of special pistols with match chambers, but he stopped doing that awhile back.

AirCool65 · July 15, 2013, 07:49 AM

I was talking about the ergonomics of it vs. the XP. It was a very accurate pistol, but I just didn't get to use it much, so I sold it to a friend.

It looks like they just sawed off the buttstock of the Chipmunk rifle.

kahrguy · July 16, 2013, 06:14 AM

The one I have has a match chamber in it and the trigger is long but can still shoot desent groups for a handgun. Also comparing this .22lr to a XP100 is like comparing basic single shot 22 rifle to a CZ 455. Whats the point. Also with the XP100 , the plastic mid body stocked version had a no so great trigger for an "accurate " firearm when compared to the wood stocked rear grip repeater version. Or comparing the keystone to a T/C contenter rimfire. Not in the same class of firearm.

Do some polishing of the bolt parts and trigger and lube with a better synthetic lube and shot it. It does get better with use.

Paul B. · July 16, 2013, 05:07 PM

".221 was not much as a rifle round but as an SMG round...."

I don't think Remington ever chambered a rifle in .221. Fireball. Maybe in that limited edition classic series. if they did, I didn't notice as I wasnt interested in those limited edition guns. However, where the .221 interested me was it could have been an easier to work with load in rifles to replace the .22 Hornet. Gun writer Jon Sundra once built a rifle in .221 and tried to promote it as the Hornet's replacement. What he said back then made a lot of sense. I would like to get one of the XP's but never have found one at a price I could live with. The only single shot handgun I own is a T/C Contender in 30-30 with a 4X Leupold handgun scope. I've shot it some but it's mainly used as a demo piece in my Hunter Ed classes. One of the reasons I'm looking for an ZP100. Even with a good rest I can't seem to hold that scope steady enough. Just me, not the gun.
Paul B.

alex0535 · July 16, 2013, 05:35 PM

I would try and contact the company and see what they say about it.

4-5 inch groups at 30 yards is hardly a "hunter" as it is not sufficiently accurate to hunt anything I would shoot with a .22

**44 AMP** · July 18, 2013, 10:18 AM

Ok, so it appears that they chopped a .22 rifle and stuck on a handgun stock. Nothing new or groundbreaking there.

If the best you can do is 3-4 inch groups at 30yds (and assuming its not you) then there is something wrong with the gun or the scope.

I can do that well or better(usually) offhand with a number of .22 pistols. And my Contender in .22LR is waay more accurate than that.

Several comments on the XP-100. After a long time, I finally found one in original condition (the mid grip plastic stock, vent rib, etc). The gun wears a Herter's 2x scope and is ...rather accurate.

Unlike some (apparently) the trigger on mine is one of the best I've ever had on any gun. Light, crisp, no overtravel, just overall sweet.

For a long time I couldn't figure out why Remington created the .221 Fireball round. Other than making it so that you had to buy Remington ammo, why not just chamber the gun in .222? Or .223?

The answer turned out to be the XP-100 itself. It had a 10 inch barrel. The .221 Fireball case is the optimum size to get the max performance out of that barrel length. Shooting a .222 (or larger case) from a 10" barrel only burns more powder for no significant gain in velocity. The .221 will get more speed from a rifle length barrel (everything does), but from the 10" the only thing a .222 did was burn 2-3gr more powder for the same speed.

There was a semi auto .221 that used a 30 rnd mag. They were made for a short time (not by Rem), although I can no longer remember who made them, or exactly what it was named (Bushmaster or Imp are running through my head, but either might be wrong). It was a bullpup style, "handgun", the pistol grip would swivel for either left or right hand shooting, and the action lay along your forearm. I think it might have been intended as an aircrew survival weapon, but if so, the military never took more than a glance at it.

kahrguy · July 20, 2013, 06:22 AM

Concedering the xp100 was made from the 600 rem action that's the reason I say the trigger was not great do to the early design with the transfer bar needed to fire it. Even compared to some SA revolver trigger it was not great but so many people get use to 3 to 5 lb triggers on hunting class firearms. The later Remington pistol with rear mounted grip did have a better feel to it. Also when Remington stepped it up to the 6mmbr and 7mmbr that's when it became a more usefull handgun but still not enough for it to stay around very long. To bad.

Contact keystone and send that pistol in.

Sarge · July 20, 2013, 07:15 AM

Check the crown, Professor. I had a new Ruger Bull Barrel Target pistol a few years ago that shot patterns instead of groups; turned out that a bad cutter had trashed the last 1/2 inch of barrel and destroyed any chance that gun would ever shoot.

July 14, 2013, 12:29 PM	#2
allaroundhunter Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2012 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,670	Re: It's Pretty But . . . What kind of ammo have you used? If you want it to shoot better grab some "match" ammo if you haven't tried it already.

July 14, 2013, 04:40 PM	#5
Prof Young Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Illinois - down state Posts: 2,404	The ammo I tried . . . . Shooters I shot winchester match grade, some remington golden and cci blazer. All grouped at 4 to 5 inches at 30 yards. Yes, the gun fits an adult hand and was clearly designed with that in mind. Live well, be safe Prof Young

July 15, 2013, 02:58 AM	#11
OkieCruffler Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2001 Location: Denison Texas on the banks of Texhoma Posts: 1,556	Biggest issue with those is the trigger, dismal is the first word that comes to mind. Still you should be able to get decent groups with the right ammo. I knew a fella who was making a trigger for them, a bunch of guys had gotten them to make a run of special pistols with match chambers, but he stopped doing that awhile back. __________________ John A. Monroe, Never Forgive, Never Forget, Blood Pays Blood

July 15, 2013, 07:49 AM	#12
AirCool65 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2013 Location: Virginia Posts: 110	I was talking about the ergonomics of it vs. the XP. It was a very accurate pistol, but I just didn't get to use it much, so I sold it to a friend. It looks like they just sawed off the buttstock of the Chipmunk rifle. Last edited by AirCool65; July 15, 2013 at 07:59 AM.

July 16, 2013, 05:07 PM	#14
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	".221 was not much as a rifle round but as an SMG round...." I don't think Remington ever chambered a rifle in .221. Fireball. Maybe in that limited edition classic series. if they did, I didn't notice as I wasnt interested in those limited edition guns. However, where the .221 interested me was it could have been an easier to work with load in rifles to replace the .22 Hornet. Gun writer Jon Sundra once built a rifle in .221 and tried to promote it as the Hornet's replacement. What he said back then made a lot of sense. I would like to get one of the XP's but never have found one at a price I could live with. The only single shot handgun I own is a T/C Contender in 30-30 with a 4X Leupold handgun scope. I've shot it some but it's mainly used as a demo piece in my Hunter Ed classes. One of the reasons I'm looking for an ZP100. Even with a good rest I can't seem to hold that scope steady enough. Just me, not the gun. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

July 14, 2013, 05:49 PM	#6
AirCool65 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2013 Location: Virginia Posts: 110	It kind of reminds me of the Remington XP-100 that I had a long time ago, but I imagine that the XP-100 balanced a lot better.

July 14, 2013, 06:15 PM	#7
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	The XP was a precision pistol, and I don't think you are dealing with that here.

July 14, 2013, 06:26 PM	#8
kahrguy Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2012 Posts: 561	I have had one of those for a few years with a 2-8 power scope . Will I had one , my youngest girl has it and it will shoot under an inch at 50 yards and 25 yard is easy to hold 3/8" groups. Trigger not real good . Find a good quality standard velocity ammo , no speed stuff. I shot the same ammo I use iin my match rifle. wolf match .. federal 922a . Aicooled , the XP is also a centerfire good for 400 yards with some 6 or 7mm BR ammo

July 14, 2013, 07:03 PM	#9
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	I thought of the Remington 100 also. I think the original Remington 100 was in .221 Fireball. Side note: I remember there was some British spy novel that actually had a lot of correct information about guns in it that included the Remington as a super duper people killer hand gun. In another chapter it had info about a .375 H&H magnum rifle that made me want to get one of those too but I never did get either. The thing looks a little like the Ruger Charger too although I hope the Charger would have better accuracy.

July 14, 2013, 07:16 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	.221 Fireball was a bit more impressive than .22 LR. There was a rumor at the time that Remington had a version of the XP-100 that had a different action and a 30 round magazine. .221 was not much as a rifle round but as an SMG round.... Jim

July 16, 2013, 06:14 AM	#13
kahrguy Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2012 Posts: 561	The one I have has a match chamber in it and the trigger is long but can still shoot desent groups for a handgun. Also comparing this .22lr to a XP100 is like comparing basic single shot 22 rifle to a CZ 455. Whats the point. Also with the XP100 , the plastic mid body stocked version had a no so great trigger for an "accurate " firearm when compared to the wood stocked rear grip repeater version. Or comparing the keystone to a T/C contenter rimfire. Not in the same class of firearm. Do some polishing of the bolt parts and trigger and lube with a better synthetic lube and shot it. It does get better with use.

July 16, 2013, 05:35 PM	#15
alex0535 Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2012 Location: Georgia Posts: 908	I would try and contact the company and see what they say about it. 4-5 inch groups at 30 yards is hardly a "hunter" as it is not sufficiently accurate to hunt anything I would shoot with a .22

July 18, 2013, 10:18 AM	#16
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,818	Ok, so it appears that they chopped a .22 rifle and stuck on a handgun stock. Nothing new or groundbreaking there. If the best you can do is 3-4 inch groups at 30yds (and assuming its not you) then there is something wrong with the gun or the scope. I can do that well or better(usually) offhand with a number of .22 pistols. And my Contender in .22LR is waay more accurate than that. Several comments on the XP-100. After a long time, I finally found one in original condition (the mid grip plastic stock, vent rib, etc). The gun wears a Herter's 2x scope and is ...rather accurate. Unlike some (apparently) the trigger on mine is one of the best I've ever had on any gun. Light, crisp, no overtravel, just overall sweet. For a long time I couldn't figure out why Remington created the .221 Fireball round. Other than making it so that you had to buy Remington ammo, why not just chamber the gun in .222? Or .223? The answer turned out to be the XP-100 itself. It had a 10 inch barrel. The .221 Fireball case is the optimum size to get the max performance out of that barrel length. Shooting a .222 (or larger case) from a 10" barrel only burns more powder for no significant gain in velocity. The .221 will get more speed from a rifle length barrel (everything does), but from the 10" the only thing a .222 did was burn 2-3gr more powder for the same speed. There was a semi auto .221 that used a 30 rnd mag. They were made for a short time (not by Rem), although I can no longer remember who made them, or exactly what it was named (Bushmaster or Imp are running through my head, but either might be wrong). It was a bullpup style, "handgun", the pistol grip would swivel for either left or right hand shooting, and the action lay along your forearm. I think it might have been intended as an aircrew survival weapon, but if so, the military never took more than a glance at it. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 20, 2013, 06:22 AM	#17
kahrguy Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2012 Posts: 561	Concedering the xp100 was made from the 600 rem action that's the reason I say the trigger was not great do to the early design with the transfer bar needed to fire it. Even compared to some SA revolver trigger it was not great but so many people get use to 3 to 5 lb triggers on hunting class firearms. The later Remington pistol with rear mounted grip did have a better feel to it. Also when Remington stepped it up to the 6mmbr and 7mmbr that's when it became a more usefull handgun but still not enough for it to stay around very long. To bad. Contact keystone and send that pistol in.

July 20, 2013, 07:15 AM	#18
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	Check the crown, Professor. I had a new Ruger Bull Barrel Target pistol a few years ago that shot patterns instead of groups; turned out that a bad cutter had trashed the last 1/2 inch of barrel and destroyed any chance that gun would ever shoot. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.