Lasers For Police?

matthew temkin · March 16, 2007, 11:10 PM

A friend of mine feels that the standard issue of lasers for LEO's would slow down the rate of fire by police ( as in # of shots) and increase the hit ratio.
Quite frankly I am a bit skeptical about a laser's durability and about it's desireablity in extreme close range gunfights.
For that I favor point shooting and I am concerned that having the officer look for a laser before shooting could prove fatal.
Then again, I have played with them and find them a good thing for longer ranges and for use when behind cover.
I have heard that a laser is hard to pick up in daylight and some SWAT frinds have told me that seeing 5-8 laser dots on a perp makes it hard to know just which dot is yours.
When I asked my friend which laser product he would recommend he said the Crimson trace, since there are rumors that the Laser Max can malfunction and jam the gun.
Opinions?

stanger04 · March 16, 2007, 11:17 PM

They could help in certain situations and hurt in others. I think they would be a good tool that an officer could add to his equipment. If officers relied on one technique they would be in trouble, the more they have the better they can do their job.

SeaMariner · March 16, 2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

and some SWAT frinds have told me that seeing 5-8 laser dots on a perp makes it hard to know just which dot is yours.

hahahahaha....

Never even thought about that before... I guess the next thing would be to teach everyone to wiggle their laser in a different manner so they could tell whose was whose..

Skyguy · March 17, 2007, 12:55 AM

I can't imagine myself 'not' having a Lasergrip on a self defense handgun.

They rule indoors, at night and in low light...from awkward positions, over, under and around cover.
They rule from the hip, retention or anywhere below sight level and they excel at 'weak hand' accuracy. They are a godsend for the infirm, the aged and those with poor eyesight.

Point shooting will always dominate in "extreme close range gunfights". Iron sights work best in long range shooting.
Lasergrips are the outstanding sighting system in the rest of the gunfight range.

This is 21st century technology and I remain disappointed by how many current trainers have failed to incorporate Lasergrips into their training.

Below are a few unpaid, world renowned Master Trainers who recommend, carry, use and train with Lasergrips.
Please note their credentials.

Jim Cirillo: LE Trainer, Author, Retired NYPD and US Customs, 17-0 Record Against Armed Felons
Ken Hackathorn: International Small Arms Instructor and Consultant
Mike Dalton: IDPA Steel Challenge Champion, Police Officer and Director of International Shootists Institute
Ernest Langdon: President, Langdon Tactical Technologies, IDPA Champion and USMC Sniper Instructor
Todd Jarrett: World Champion Shooter, International Military / LE Trainer
Massad Ayoob: World Renowned Firearms Instructor / Self Defense Expert
Larry Vickers: FBI, NRA, Secret Service certified firearms instructor, Master Trainer, Master Shooter, Founding member (IDPA), Vickers System
.

STLRN · March 17, 2007, 07:45 AM

I cannot speak so much for a civilian or LEO application, but I know overseas the green lasers have saved allot of Iraqis from getting shot. They may ignore other things in the escalation of force drill, but when you snake the laser on their wind shield or across their face. The get the point real quick.

David Armstrong · March 21, 2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

For that I favor point shooting and I am concerned that having the officer look for a laser before shooting could prove fatal.

Actually, Matt, the laser should not change the dynamics of point shooting at all.

Quote:

I have heard that a laser is hard to pick up in daylight and some SWAT frinds have told me that seeing 5-8 laser dots on a perp makes it hard to know just which dot is yours.

If it is hard to pick up (and usually it isn't) you just use your other sights if needed. As for it being hard to know which dot is yours, that is one of the exercises we did in training. It is not a problem. First, if all the dots are on the target it doesn't matter. Second, if there is an issue, it is very easy to ID which dot is yours with a little training.

Samurai · March 21, 2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

some SWAT frinds have told me that ...

Ahhh! But the point is, the SWAT guys HAVE THEM. If the SWAT guys have them, then that must mean that they're helpful in some way. So, why not give them to cops? If the particular situation isn't favorable for using a laser, then the cop can revert back to the old-fashioned iron sites. But, what can it hurt???

matthew temkin · March 21, 2007, 04:44 PM

Thanks, Dave.
I am sorry that I can't make it to the ATC this year.
Perhaps our paths will cross one day..

David Armstrong · March 21, 2007, 08:00 PM

Any time, Matt. I had hoped to see you there this year, and had planned on going, but my daughter politely informed me last week that She is graduating from high school that week and if I'm not there for that she would shoot me herself. Oh well, maybe next year!

matthew temkin · March 21, 2007, 11:01 PM

My friend and I are going next year..no matter where it is.
I taught a point shooting class for IALEFI's ATC two years ago in Reno and had a great time.

March 16, 2007, 11:10 PM	#1
matthew temkin Junior member Join Date: June 7, 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 363	Lasers For Police? A friend of mine feels that the standard issue of lasers for LEO's would slow down the rate of fire by police ( as in # of shots) and increase the hit ratio. Quite frankly I am a bit skeptical about a laser's durability and about it's desireablity in extreme close range gunfights. For that I favor point shooting and I am concerned that having the officer look for a laser before shooting could prove fatal. Then again, I have played with them and find them a good thing for longer ranges and for use when behind cover. I have heard that a laser is hard to pick up in daylight and some SWAT frinds have told me that seeing 5-8 laser dots on a perp makes it hard to know just which dot is yours. When I asked my friend which laser product he would recommend he said the Crimson trace, since there are rumors that the Laser Max can malfunction and jam the gun. Opinions?

March 17, 2007, 12:55 AM	#4
Skyguy Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2005 Posts: 266	I can't imagine myself 'not' having a Lasergrip on a self defense handgun. They rule indoors, at night and in low light...from awkward positions, over, under and around cover. They rule from the hip, retention or anywhere below sight level and they excel at 'weak hand' accuracy. They are a godsend for the infirm, the aged and those with poor eyesight. Point shooting will always dominate in "extreme close range gunfights". Iron sights work best in long range shooting. Lasergrips are the outstanding sighting system in the rest of the gunfight range. This is 21st century technology and I remain disappointed by how many current trainers have failed to incorporate Lasergrips into their training. Below are a few unpaid, world renowned Master Trainers who recommend, carry, use and train with Lasergrips. Please note their credentials. Jim Cirillo: LE Trainer, Author, Retired NYPD and US Customs, 17-0 Record Against Armed Felons Ken Hackathorn: International Small Arms Instructor and Consultant Mike Dalton: IDPA Steel Challenge Champion, Police Officer and Director of International Shootists Institute Ernest Langdon: President, Langdon Tactical Technologies, IDPA Champion and USMC Sniper Instructor Todd Jarrett: World Champion Shooter, International Military / LE Trainer Massad Ayoob: World Renowned Firearms Instructor / Self Defense Expert Larry Vickers: FBI, NRA, Secret Service certified firearms instructor, Master Trainer, Master Shooter, Founding member (IDPA), Vickers System . __________________ First off.....'she' is a weapon, not a girlfriend; a genderless, inanimate mechanism designed to mete out mayhem in life threatening situations.

March 17, 2007, 07:45 AM	#5
STLRN Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 1,163	I cannot speak so much for a civilian or LEO application, but I know overseas the green lasers have saved allot of Iraqis from getting shot. They may ignore other things in the escalation of force drill, but when you snake the laser on their wind shield or across their face. The get the point real quick. __________________ God truly fights on the side with the best artillery

March 16, 2007, 11:17 PM	#2
stanger04 Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2007 Posts: 114	They could help in certain situations and hurt in others. I think they would be a good tool that an officer could add to his equipment. If officers relied on one technique they would be in trouble, the more they have the better they can do their job.

March 21, 2007, 04:44 PM	#8
matthew temkin Junior member Join Date: June 7, 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 363	Thanks, Dave. I am sorry that I can't make it to the ATC this year. Perhaps our paths will cross one day..

March 21, 2007, 08:00 PM	#9
David Armstrong Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2005 Location: SW Louisiana Posts: 2,289	Any time, Matt. I had hoped to see you there this year, and had planned on going, but my daughter politely informed me last week that She is graduating from high school that week and if I'm not there for that she would shoot me herself. Oh well, maybe next year!

March 21, 2007, 11:01 PM	#10
matthew temkin Junior member Join Date: June 7, 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 363	My friend and I are going next year..no matter where it is. I taught a point shooting class for IALEFI's ATC two years ago in Reno and had a great time.