MOA on m91/30 Mosin Nagant

Ransome · June 30, 2018, 08:33 PM

I recently purchased a semi sporterized m91/30. It has been drilled and tapped, with a rail mount on the receiver to accept a scope. The guy before me shot tons of corrosive ammo through it and failed to clean it. When I bought it, it looked like a 30 year old iron sewer pipe. After days of cleaning the bore it looks decent with medium pitting. I took it out to the range today and sighted it in fairly good at 100 yards. I think I am saying this right, but it was about 2 MOA at 100 yards with a 9x power scope. Or, about a 2-3 inch diameter bullet pattern at 100 yards. Is this decent for a pitted Mosin at 100 yards, with a 25$ tasco scope? And excuse me if I am mistaking what MOA means. That is why I included to say that the diameter of the bullet pattern was about 2-3 inches, with 7 shots.

**JohnKSa** · June 30, 2018, 08:41 PM

A group with a 2" circumference at 100 yards would be a lot less than 2MOA--it would be something like 0.6 MOA

Generally groups are measured between the centers of the two shots that are farthest apart. So the group measurement would be more like a diameter than a circumference. Nothing wrong with measuring a circumference, it's just not the way most folks do it.

A 2 MOA group would have a diameter of about 2" at 100 yards--a circumference of about 6.3".

**************************

An MOA (Minute Of Angle) is generally approximated as 1" at 100 yards. It would be about 2" at 200 yards, about 0.5" at 50 yards and so on.

1MOA is really about 1.047" at 100 yards, but it's rare for people to get down to that level of precision.

Ransome · June 30, 2018, 08:45 PM

My apologies, I mean diameter. It had about a 2-3 inch diameter at 100 yards. I'll go ahead and edit the first post to diameter. Thank you.

**JohnKSa** · June 30, 2018, 08:49 PM

I wondered about that.

Yes, a 2-3" diameter group at 100 yards would, indeed, be 2-3 MOA.

That's pretty good for a Russian military surplus rifle-even if the bore were in good condition. Not amazing or anything, but certainly nothing to complain about.

It's also good enough for anything reasonable one would want to do with a rifle like that.

Ransome · June 30, 2018, 08:56 PM

Alright thank you, I'm pretty new to shooting so I am learning along the way. I think I got a grasp on MOA now.

T. O'Heir · July 1, 2018, 11:58 AM

The barrel was probably like a 30 year old sewer pipe long before the other guy got the rifle. Mosins were issued to illiterate peasant conscripts who didn't care if the thing shot well or not, just like AK's and SKS' were. Not that it really matters.
2 or 3 MOA is still good for a beat up rifle. Especially one that has been 'semi sporterised'. Bubba being what he is.
"...what MOA means..." Means 1" group diameter per 100 yards. 1" at 100, 2" at 200, etc. A consistent 2 or 3 MOA is plenty accurate enough for deer/bear/elk hunting.

Josh Smith · July 1, 2018, 12:43 PM

Hello,

My favorite Mosin will do about 1MOA with handloads. It is shimmed, with pillars, has an adjustable front sight, and light, two-stage trigger.

It looks stock.

Regards,
Josh

Erno86 · July 1, 2018, 01:47 PM

Russian "sniper" M91/30's were carefully selected at the factory for accuracy, where they were built --- Then stamped with a different serial number an released to the sniper division.

My "Izzy" Mosin 1943 - PU 3.5x scoped - sniper shoots 3/4" MOA - three shot group @ 100 yards --- using Russian sniper ammo.

RC20 · July 1, 2018, 02:57 PM

Quote:

The barrel was probably like a 30 year old sewer pipe long before the other guy got the rifle. Mosins were issued to illiterate peasant conscripts who didn't care if the thing shot well or not,

Kind of a shame to burst a bubble, but many MNs are un-issued. Pretty no, corroded out, no as well.

I had one that had to have come in from Spain before the wall went down (forget the arms dealer, but he was famous) - upshot was it had a very clean rifling. Either not shot or not shot much.

Of course the Spanish and International Patriots who used them were not illiterate Russian peasants

Josh Smith · July 1, 2018, 04:18 PM

How do you figure many were unissued, RC20?

Most 91/30s were indeed issued; they were still trying to keep folks supplied in WWII. WWI saw many Berdan II rifles issued to supplement the Mosins.

Regards,
Josh

44caliberkid · July 1, 2018, 08:09 PM

That's not bad for a Mosin. What brand of ammo were you using?

Erno86 · July 2, 2018, 11:33 AM

Russian sniper 7N1 - 152 grain & corrosive

Tidewater_Kid · July 2, 2018, 09:30 PM

This one will do good things at 100 yds as well. I have never been able to test it out past that. No import markings.

Josh Smith · July 14, 2018, 08:54 AM

Hello,

Any further updates?

Regards,
Josh

RC20 · July 14, 2018, 04:11 PM

Quote:

How do you figure many were unissued, RC20?

The were made in millions in WWII, but many were not issued.

You look at them and they clearly came out of storage, as pristine as the WWII mfg got them.

Mine was beat up but the bore was outstanding. A MW gauge did not go past almost perfect for the 7.62 Ruskie.

Russians over produced. Many were rear troop arms that never saw use.

Road_Clam · July 14, 2018, 06:22 PM

They have excellent accuracy potential. 600 yds with a box stock scout scoped 91/30 and PPU ammo :

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...ighlight=mosin

Josh Smith · July 14, 2018, 06:49 PM

RC20,

I'm not doubting your word. Was just curious.

Are you sure it's not refurbished? Most were refurbished as part of Soviet "busy work," then stored away in cosmoline until Russia ran out of money to warehouse them.

After that, they sold them off at scrap prices, and that's how we got the really inexpensive Mosins.

Regards,
Josh

kraigwy · July 15, 2018, 10:09 AM

2 MOA???

The 10-X ring of the target used in the CMP uses in their GSM 200 yard matches is right at 3.5 MOA, a 2 MOA rifle is capable of cleaning the targets.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

RC20 · July 16, 2018, 03:08 PM

Quote:

I'm not doubting your word. Was just curious.

Are you sure it's not refurbished? Most were refurbished as part of Soviet "busy work," then stored away in cosmoline until Russia ran out of money to warehouse them.

After that, they sold them off at scrap prices, and that's how we got the really inexpensive Mosins.

I found this, that is the sort of info/reference that works.

http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/...ent/index.html

They also used MN barrels for PPS machine guns. Beat up, broken ones would be ideal.

My dad got me an MN when I was a kid, I think he sort of lost his senses, it was more a joke. Then he realized we had a real gun that could wind up with a cartridge in it.

The firing pin got cut off and I was not allowed to point it at anyone (ok, that really wrecks playing combat)

While it was not shot out you could see the wear on it. Samuel Cummings pickup for sure, probably from Spain. Pr WWII dated and likely the War in Spain.

I sold it a while back to someone who wanted a higher quality barreled receiver pre War. Not much money but got put to use the way it should

June 30, 2018, 08:33 PM	#1
Ransome Member Join Date: February 1, 2018 Location: Steamboat Springs CO Posts: 39	MOA on m91/30 Mosin Nagant I recently purchased a semi sporterized m91/30. It has been drilled and tapped, with a rail mount on the receiver to accept a scope. The guy before me shot tons of corrosive ammo through it and failed to clean it. When I bought it, it looked like a 30 year old iron sewer pipe. After days of cleaning the bore it looks decent with medium pitting. I took it out to the range today and sighted it in fairly good at 100 yards. I think I am saying this right, but it was about 2 MOA at 100 yards with a 9x power scope. Or, about a 2-3 inch diameter bullet pattern at 100 yards. Is this decent for a pitted Mosin at 100 yards, with a 25$ tasco scope? And excuse me if I am mistaking what MOA means. That is why I included to say that the diameter of the bullet pattern was about 2-3 inches, with 7 shots. Last edited by Ransome; June 30, 2018 at 08:46 PM.

June 30, 2018, 08:41 PM	#2
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	A group with a 2" circumference at 100 yards would be a lot less than 2MOA--it would be something like 0.6 MOA Generally groups are measured between the centers of the two shots that are farthest apart. So the group measurement would be more like a diameter than a circumference. Nothing wrong with measuring a circumference, it's just not the way most folks do it. A 2 MOA group would have a diameter of about 2" at 100 yards--a circumference of about 6.3". ************************ An MOA (Minute Of Angle) is generally approximated as 1" at 100 yards. It would be about 2" at 200 yards, about 0.5" at 50 yards and so on. 1MOA is really about 1.047" at 100 yards, but it's rare for people to get down to that level of precision. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?**

June 30, 2018, 08:49 PM	#4
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	I wondered about that. Yes, a 2-3" diameter group at 100 yards would, indeed, be 2-3 MOA. That's pretty good for a Russian military surplus rifle-even if the bore were in good condition. Not amazing or anything, but certainly nothing to complain about. It's also good enough for anything reasonable one would want to do with a rifle like that. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

July 1, 2018, 11:58 AM	#6
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	The barrel was probably like a 30 year old sewer pipe long before the other guy got the rifle. Mosins were issued to illiterate peasant conscripts who didn't care if the thing shot well or not, just like AK's and SKS' were. Not that it really matters. 2 or 3 MOA is still good for a beat up rifle. Especially one that has been 'semi sporterised'. Bubba being what he is. "...what MOA means..." Means 1" group diameter per 100 yards. 1" at 100, 2" at 200, etc. A consistent 2 or 3 MOA is plenty accurate enough for deer/bear/elk hunting. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 1, 2018, 01:47 PM	#8
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	Russian "sniper" M91/30's were carefully selected at the factory for accuracy, where they were built --- Then stamped with a different serial number an released to the sniper division. My "Izzy" Mosin 1943 - PU 3.5x scoped - sniper shoots 3/4" MOA - three shot group @ 100 yards --- using Russian sniper ammo. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell Last edited by Erno86; July 1, 2018 at 01:55 PM.

June 30, 2018, 08:45 PM	#3
Ransome Member Join Date: February 1, 2018 Location: Steamboat Springs CO Posts: 39	My apologies, I mean diameter. It had about a 2-3 inch diameter at 100 yards. I'll go ahead and edit the first post to diameter. Thank you.

June 30, 2018, 08:56 PM	#5
Ransome Member Join Date: February 1, 2018 Location: Steamboat Springs CO Posts: 39	Alright thank you, I'm pretty new to shooting so I am learning along the way. I think I got a grasp on MOA now.

July 1, 2018, 12:43 PM	#7
Josh Smith member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 740	Hello, My favorite Mosin will do about 1MOA with handloads. It is shimmed, with pillars, has an adjustable front sight, and light, two-stage trigger. It looks stock. Regards, Josh

July 1, 2018, 04:18 PM	#10
Josh Smith member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 740	How do you figure many were unissued, RC20? Most 91/30s were indeed issued; they were still trying to keep folks supplied in WWII. WWI saw many Berdan II rifles issued to supplement the Mosins. Regards, Josh

July 1, 2018, 08:09 PM	#11
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,096	That's not bad for a Mosin. What brand of ammo were you using?

July 2, 2018, 11:33 AM	#12
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	Russian sniper 7N1 - 152 grain & corrosive __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell

July 14, 2018, 08:54 AM	#14
Josh Smith member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 740	Hello, Any further updates? Regards, Josh

July 14, 2018, 06:22 PM	#16
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	They have excellent accuracy potential. 600 yds with a box stock scout scoped 91/30 and PPU ammo : https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...ighlight=mosin __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"

July 14, 2018, 06:49 PM	#17
Josh Smith member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 740	RC20, I'm not doubting your word. Was just curious. Are you sure it's not refurbished? Most were refurbished as part of Soviet "busy work," then stored away in cosmoline until Russia ran out of money to warehouse them. After that, they sold them off at scrap prices, and that's how we got the really inexpensive Mosins. Regards, Josh

July 15, 2018, 10:09 AM	#18
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	2 MOA??? The 10-X ring of the target used in the CMP uses in their GSM 200 yard matches is right at 3.5 MOA, a 2 MOA rifle is capable of cleaning the targets. Just thought I'd throw that out there. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

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