357 Deer Load Advice

[laxton357]

I live in Ohio. Here we are only able to hunt deer with straight walled pistol cartridges from a rifle, shotgun, or pistol. I would like to use my new 77/357 to hunt deer this year. I'll be limiting my shots to about 75 yards, so with an 18" barrel I'm banking on plenty of knockdown power.

I have both 158gr and 180gr Hornady XTPs. I'll be working up loads to the upper recommended loads for accuracy then testing with a chrony to see exactly how much power I'm getting from the rounds.

I'll likely be using 2400 to work up these loads.

My question is: Would you suggest using the 158gr or 180gr XTP?
Is there a minimum velocity I should aim for?


I've currently found some very accurate loads in 125gr plated bullets with titegroup at 50 yards. My end goal is to be able to have similar point of impacts with this load and my intended deer hunting load, although I'm finding that as my velocity increased my POI is also moving upwards.

[Radny97]

At 75 yards I would go with the 180 gn. Almost no drop at that distance and the 180 will punch through bone better if your shot is a bit off or you hit a shoulder blade. If there's a chance you will be shooting past 100 yards then I would go with the 158s.

[briandg]

correct, IMO.

[Water-Man]

I like the Federal Fusion 158gr. http://www.fusionammo.com/products/d...un.aspx?id=607

[briandg]

I agree that the xtp isn't the the best choice when you are looking at rifle loads for deer. You can easily come up with better ones. The important thing is that you can probably do more damage, deeper damage, with the 180 because of the higher sectional density, and the deeper penetration, higher busting through energy. Yes, you will sacrifice some velocity but velocity isn't actually the key to punching deep, lethal wounds into a deer when you are dealing with the 357.

If you look at the people who hunt with a 30-30, around here at least, they tend to use 180 grain bullets, at least that's what they used to use.

I would feel pretty confident of a rapid kill, hitting it in the kill zone.

[laxton357]

Thanks for the information. I've seen tons of opinions on the matter but wasn't sure if I should concentrate on increased velocity or if the extra bullet weight would preferred.

A couple people mention the xtp may not be the ideal deer round. Can you explain what might make another round more suitable?

[NoSecondBest]

I have personally shot over fifty white tails with the .357mag using mostly handguns and a few with a Marlin lever gun. I can tell you for a fact that either the 158XTP or the 180XTP will work equally well on deer. Most of the ones I shot were shot with the 158g. I've recovered bullets from each weight and both expanded quite well....depending on the distance shot at. Your statement about "knockdown power" is totally irrelevant. Bullet placement is everything, knockdown power is a figment of someone's imagination.....it doesn't exist. The only deer I ever lost with a handgun was shot with a 44mag full power load. The 44mag is quite a bit more powerful than the 357mag, but a poorly placed bullet won't kill anything..at least not quickly. Develop the most accurate load you can, learn how to shoot the gun well, and don't take any shots where you're not certain to place the bullet in the kill zone. You can shoot a deer in the gut with a 458 winmag and maybe not get it or shoot it in the heart/lungs with the 357mag and drop it promptly. None of what I've said is internet BS, I've been shooting/hunting with a handgun for over forty years and I hunted in several states. Good luck.

[1100 tac]

You need penetration more than diameter, you already have enough diameter for deer.

I would be using a heavy, gas checked swc.

[laxton357]

Sounds like I'm set then. Find an accurate load, get sighted in, place a good shot, and have some venison. Thanks for all the insight.

[briandg]

I believe that the xtp would be inferior to others. In fact, they only sell the xtp hollow point and that wouldn't necesarly be best with 180 grains high velocity rifle rounds. The swift a frame and speer deep curl are made for full weight retention. swift are available at brownells.

Seriously, you can drop a deer with any of the hundreds of available bullets, but the BEST way is to go with real premium rounds. The XTP, if available, even in the 158 grain will work fine for deer at the high velocity of a rifle. Just because its not the optimal round doesn't make it a loser. Want to talk about losers? any of the plain jhp, like the remington or winchester, that are made for average performance in the handguns. Even a cast bullet in 180 may be better than the remington scalloped hollow point in 158 at rifle velocities.

Weigh this against other opinions.

[TimSr]

I too am an Ohioan, and have hunted exclusively with pistol here since the 80s'.

The XTP is probably the most popular and proven choice for deer in Ohio today. They are a controlled expansion bullet, and they stay together well. I agree with briandg that standard semi-jacketed, and jacketed hollow points are insufficient, but the XTP is NOT in that class. The 158gr is the most popular choice for pistols, but 180's are common in carbines, because they can keep the velocity of the 180 up to where it can expand properly. That extra foot of barrel length really expands the capabilities with this round from its limitations from a revolver.

I am curious as to your reason for going with 2400. Where top end performance is warranted, you'll get much better results with 110/296, 300-MP, or even 4227.

[sghart3578]

"I have personally shot over fifty white tails with the .357mag using mostly handguns and a few with a Marlin lever gun. I can tell you for a fact that either the 158XTP or the 180XTP will work equally well on deer. Most of the ones I shot were shot with the 158g. I've recovered bullets from each weight and both expanded quite well....depending on the distance shot at. Your statement about "knockdown power" is totally irrelevant. Bullet placement is everything, knockdown power is a figment of someone's imagination.....it doesn't exist. The only deer I ever lost with a handgun was shot with a 44mag full power load. The 44mag is quite a bit more powerful than the 357mag, but a poorly placed bullet won't kill anything..at least not quickly. Develop the most accurate load you can, learn how to shoot the gun well, and don't take any shots where you're not certain to place the bullet in the kill zone. You can shoot a deer in the gut with a 458 winmag and maybe not get it or shoot it in the heart/lungs with the 357mag and drop it promptly. None of what I've said is internet BS, I've been shooting/hunting with a handgun for over forty years and I hunted in several states. Good luck."




I would have to say that this is very good advice.


Steve in N CA

[NoSecondBest]

Some pics of those "ineffective" Hornady XTP bullets taken from whitetails. Listen to the advice of those who've actually done the deer rather than the advice of those who read and regurgitate. Also, a sample size of one or two is pretty meaningless. PM if you have questions on the pics. On the 180g bullet, distance is clearly the factor in this caliber.

[laxton357]

I have no particular reason for using 2400. I heard that it is a good all around powder for 357. I love how it meters and pours. I've also heard it works better than othersome with standard pistol primers. That's not to say that I'm not open to other powders, I've only recently began reloading 357/38sp.

[ammo.crafter]

The XPT's in either 158gr or 180gr will serve you well. Personally, I wouyld go with the 158gr.

I use 158gr in a single shot Contender in 357 Maximum for consistent one-shot kills.

I realize the max and the mag are quite different, but the XPT performance was excellent.

[NoSecondBest]

The XPT's in either 158gr or 180gr will serve you well. Personally, I wouyld go with the 158gr.

I use 158gr in a single shot Contender in 357 Maximum for consistent one-shot kills.

I realize the max and the mag are quite different, but the XPT performance was excellent.

Very good advice. I have a Browning Low Wall in 357max and it shoots the 158g better than the 180g (although the both shoot very well). Even driven to some pretty high velocities the 158g works very well on deer. The biggest difference I've noticed is that in the 357max the 180g expands a bit better than in the 357mag. The added velocity works to my advantage there. I've shot deer with each in that gun.

[Brian Pfleuger]

It's all splitting hairs. The .357mag with bullets from decades ago is a legendary "man stopper". What is a deer, but a 4 legged man. They're only about a foot thick. You only need about 8" penetration on a broadside shot to hit both lungs.

Sure, maybe you want a bit more for mild angling shots but you're not going to be trying to shoot one from rear hip to front shoulder with a .357, so stay in reality.

Analysis Paralysis. You don't need it here. Any bullet you pick will do the job just fine.

[buck460XVR]

The .357mag with bullets from decades ago is a legendary "man stopper". What is a deer, but a 4 legged man.Any bullet you pick will do the job just fine.

I tend to disagree. So many .357 HPs are meant for SD/HD which means rapid expansion at revolver velocities. Push them to legitimate carbine velocities and they will blow up on impact, especially when hitting shoulder bone. Deer are much different than men, men go down easier, suffer from shock due to blood loss quicker and are less resistant to pain. A man shot with a 30-06 in a marginal torso shot will drop like a rock and scream like a little girl. Shoot a good buck marginally with a 30-06 and if he's found, it will be in the next county. A .357 is a far cry from a 30-06. In .44 mag and larger, bullet choice is not as critical, but in .357, you need something that will make a hole in both sides and penetration is more important than expansion. Use the FPs, a good JSP or a good ahrdcast in .357 and leave the JHPs for the range, SD and varmints.

I've killed several deer with 158s from a revolver and a couple with a .357 lever carbine. I've found that from a carbine the 158 XTP FPs work much better than the standard 158 XTP-HPs and work even better than the 180 XTP-HPs on deer sized game.

[briandg]

Some pics of those "ineffective" Hornady XTP bullets taken from whitetails. Listen to the advice of those who've actually done the deer rather than the advice of those who read and regurgitate.

It's amazing how snotty people can get over such a simple thing. There are some clearly ineffective bullets, that aren't intended for hunting, that won't perform optimally. Sure, they will still kill a deer with proper shooter performance. I personally saw a grizzly who charged a ranger, who was taken down with a .357; he had no choice as that was the only weapon available.

Hunting should be done with optimal products, and while the xtp is a proven performer and will do quite well, does that make it the very best, and does it really justify striking out against those who think that there are better bullets? One of the bullets you showed had absolutely flattened, and that's certainly not optimal. The XTP is going to be pushing to it's limit at the 2,000 fps that will be achieved.

I stand by my judgement, a deer hunter may possibly be better served by a hard lead, and it will certainly be best using a bonded bullet meant for the cartridge, so that the expansion will be controlled, and the thing will retain it's full weight.

Almost any of the currently available bullets will perform well. Premium like xtp will do better than the plain remington soft points. Bonded like the fusion or a frame will do better. Any of them can still kill a deer.

[Longshot4]

I looked up Energy. for the 158 Gr. FP XTP at 1350 Fps. Energy was 528 Fp.
at 1400 Fps. Energy was 565 Fp.

for the 180 Gr. FP XTP at 1200 Fps. Energy was 500 Fp.

That was at 50 Yds.

As the man sead. You need to hit the target.
I say you need to do a lot of practice.

My deer hunting pistol is Super Black Hawk 10 1/2" 44 Mag.

[NoSecondBest]

It's amazing how snotty people can get over such a simple thing. There are some clearly ineffective bullets, that aren't intended for hunting, that won't perform optimally. Sure, they will still kill a deer with proper shooter performance. I personally saw a grizzly who charged a ranger, who was taken down with a .357; he had no choice as that was the only weapon available.

Hunting should be done with optimal products, and while the xtp is a proven performer and will do quite well, does that make it the very best, and does it really justify striking out against those who think that there are better bullets? One of the bullets you showed had absolutely flattened, and that's certainly not optimal. The XTP is going to be pushing to it's limit at the 2,000 fps that will be achieved.

I stand by my judgement, a deer hunter may possibly be better served by a hard lead, and it will certainly be best using a bonded bullet meant for the cartridge, so that the expansion will be controlled, and the thing will retain it's full weight.

Almost any of the currently available bullets will perform well. Premium like xtp will do better than the plain remington soft points. Bonded like the fusion or a frame will do better. Any of them can still kill a deer.

We all have an opinion and some of us base ours on experience. As I always say, a sample size of one or two is pretty meaningless. A sample size of zero is truly worthless. None of those dead deer would agree with you. As I've said, I've never lost one using the 357mag. It's all about bullet placement.....period. The XTP excells in every way. I've tried other bullets over the years and none of them did as well as the XTPs.....actual experience my friend.

[RaySendero]

My friend has the same Ruger 77/357 rifle.
His rifle really groups well with the 140 FTX factory load.
We chronoed them at 1,850 fps from his 18.5" barrel.

[laxton357]

There are obviously a lot of differing opinions and looks like this is going to come down to personal preference more than anything. I think I've learned a thing or two about desired characteristics a hunting bullet should have and will just have to use my own judgement as to what I find best for my particular circumstances. Half of the fun I've had so fun with both my new 77/357 and SP101 is working up loads and trying to optimize my round selection.

Thanks again for all the input guys.

Not to completely change the direction of this thread, but does anyone have any suggestion on how I might test my load for penetration and expansion? Ballistics gel is likely out of the question. I'd like to find something that is perhaps less involved/expensive. I've read about people shooting wet phone books or stacks of wood. Any ideas are appreciated.

[Jeffm004]

wet newspaper or phone books are an option. I like 158s, never shot a living thing with a .357, if I want a big bullet, 45-70!

[briandg]

I don't believe that anything really does an accurate representation. Ballistic gel is what folks have settled on, but it's $100 a block, give or take. If you try paper, it needs to be totally saturated not just a little wet. Other people think that water bottles are good, and it works, water is the greatest challenge for whether a bullet will hold together. Some of the things that have been used are unbelievable. People have even used bars of soap.