How often do you verify charges???

Sigma 40 Blaster · July 30, 2007, 06:49 PM

I've been reading a few powder measure discussions that got me thinking, how often do you need to verify your charges are still the same.

Let me qualify that statement by saying I'm not talking about bench rest reloading or trying to soup up a .38 special to make major, I'm talking about standard target loads 5-10% below max.

I use a Lee Pro 1000 and the Autodisk Pro. My line of thinking is that if my "lever action" stays about the same and my methods stay the same my charge should stay the same, or well within a reasonable tolerance.

I will usually check every 20 - 30 rounds (first and last case out of my case feeder tubes) for the first 100 or so then I'm off the races. I keep my powder hopper 2/3 to full...I will verify randomly here and there but usually more like every 50-60 rounds once I'm going.

I'm interested to hear what more experienced rollers do.

**EDIT-Hope this isn't a thread re-post, if it is sorry, I rarely use the search feature with all the new info popping up every day.

DMZX · July 30, 2007, 08:25 PM

I load straight cased pistol ammo and use a Lee Perfect Powder Measure.

I not a high volume loader, in that I load ~ 100 round a week or so. My maximum loads are always just short of the recommendation. Most of my loads are modest
practice and target loads.

I tend to be a slow and methodical reloader as I use reloading as a good way to relax and unwind, but still keep my mind active doing something I really enjoy.

My routine is to fill the hooper 2/3's or more.

Toss around 4 charges to get every thing "powdered up."

Dial in the desired charge, checking with the scale until I have the charge bar set just right.

Toss a charge into a case and weigh it.

If all looks good, I run lots of 20 and check weight at the end of each lot and visually check the lot.

I yet to make an adjustment to the charge bar, but I still check it, especially with certain powders.

I shoot .44 mags in a 1894 Marlin rifle and when I work up a hunting specific load for it, I will run a 20 round lot and weigh each charge.

Sevens · July 30, 2007, 09:47 PM

That's one of the benefits I feel I get by loading single stage... all my cases get charged at the same time, usually in lots of 50, and I get a visual on each and every single piece before I proceed to seat a bullet. Especially with a small flashlight handy, it's a simple step to see that each case has a similar amount of powder in it. Then, I'll grab one or two of them at random and dump and weigh the charge to see if it's where I want it.

I suppose if I were loading progressive, I'd audit a few loaded rounds by weight and look for any inconsistencies.

red-rider · July 30, 2007, 09:54 PM

I use a dillon 550, I check the powder measure every session. I never changes. I reload for several pistol calibers, but 90% is 45acp. I keeo a small flashlight near the press and look down into the case every 20 or 30 to see. Never had a problem in 7 years of relading

Trapper L · July 30, 2007, 09:55 PM

I use a Rockchucker press and an RCBS powder measure. I use only the small pistol cylinder for all loads as I find it is far more accurate than the larger rifle cylinder. The small has enough capacity for almost any rifle load anyway. I check every tenth round for the first fifty rounds, recheck to make sure it is locked down tight and start dumping. I check every case with an LED flashlight- makes the powder glow in the case and easy to see that none are overloaded. I won't use any progressive style press. I've already given away two new in the box Dillions this year alone. I think they are the most dangerous thing to reloading, especially for the beginner or casual reloader.

lev83 · July 30, 2007, 10:45 PM

I wouldnt really consider myself a high volume reloader but my usual routine when loading pistol rounds is to check every 10 rds. I check every five when loading for rifle. Better safe than sorry.

Sevens · July 31, 2007, 12:44 AM

Now I prefer single stage myself, but if someone were giving away a new-in-the-box Dillon, I'd be right up at the front of the line!

It just begs the question... if you've already given away two new Dillions this year alone... where are you getting them? You wouldn't possibly go out and drop $250-$500 on a machine that you refuse to use, and then be forced to give it away? Twice?

If I were a match pistol shooter, I'd simply have to go progressive and I wouldn't look back. I'd still load single stage for other calibers that I don't use in matches, but I don't know of a lot of folks who have the kind of spare time it takes to produce these quantities of ammo to be available once a week for practice and matches.

I can certainly see the attraction to progressive loading. I just don't need it myself, and I enjoy single stage enough that progressive is just not something I want. But for *FREE* ?! Yep, sign me up!

ludwig1138 · July 31, 2007, 09:01 PM

I use a Lee 1000 with Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure.

I usually fill the hopper 3/4 full and put a small cup under the charge die mouth and cycle it 20 or so times by hand not cycling the press, then weigh a single charge. I repeat this a couple of times and then check it every 50 loaded rounds. I load for target shooting, and have had no problems with this method for nearly 8,000 rounds.

I do keep a careful eye on the charged case for double charges, but so far none.

clayking · July 31, 2007, 09:57 PM

I check the measure when starting out...... use a dillon 650 with a powder check, watch the powder check, look into it about every 10-15, check weight each 100, when I change primers. After tens of thousands of rounds, nary a low or high charge.

Any Dillon giveaways, I'll take 'em.........................ck

Taxidermist · July 31, 2007, 10:22 PM

Well my reloading gear is all antique. I have an old 3 stage CH press and I have a bracket mounted on top for use with my pacific powder measure's. I use a different measure for each caliber. It is the old measure that uses a brass bushing. I do check it once in awhile but not very often. It's been accurate for the last 30 years so far. Oh yeah the reason I use a different powder measure for each caliber is I'm old and lazy and don't like changing those bushings. I think if they ever wear out I'll just quit.

John

Chief-7700 · July 31, 2007, 11:14 PM

I check the measure when starting out...... use a dillon 650 with a powder check, watch the powder check, look into it about every 10-15, check weight each 100, when I change primers. After tens of thousands of rounds, nary a low or high charge.

I also use a Dillon XL 650, Check a full shell plate at the start and another after I feed the machine new primers. The powder check system is a must have.
Chief-7700

Sigma 40 Blaster · July 31, 2007, 11:15 PM

That makes me feel a little better. A reloading "old head" told me I needed to verify every 10 to 20 rounds regardless of my run size. I usually load 500-1500 of the same caliber in a single session, stopping every 20 rounds would definitely add some serious time to my reloading duties.

I am about to buy an AR 15 and will get into single stage loading for .223. I don't think I'll be loading that at such high volumes (once I get a couple of thousand rounds for a buffer) but will probably be verifying those more frequently since I'll be dropping charges by hand and loading at near max load.

buckster · August 1, 2007, 11:18 AM

All one needs is one Squib to make you verify every time. I quit using the perfect powder measure because it was in-consistent and use a funnel and a hand primer. You can hot glue a 12 volt Led spliced into any old 12 v transformer so it will illuminate the shell area.

Creature · August 1, 2007, 11:46 AM

I use a turret press and so I have to manually load each case into the press. I recheck when I start on the next row of brass in the box/container I am using to hold my rounds.

Trapper L · August 1, 2007, 12:27 PM

Sevens, no, I don't buy the Dillions, they are given to me. I get all kinds of things from scopes, bullets, saboted bullets, etc. for trial and testing. A press like a Dillion and others I still say are dangerous and are not for the casual reloader. Of course, I'm old school, if you are going to do something- do it right and be proud of it. Can't be proud of some of the crap that comes out of some of these presses. I have yet to have anybody ever have a failure of any kind with any of my loads. I've been doing this for over thirty years.

nobius · August 1, 2007, 03:32 PM

You get another Dillon, or anything else shooting related for that matter, that you don't want/won't use, just let me know. I'll pay the shipping.

arkie2 · August 1, 2007, 03:52 PM

I use a Lee classic turret press with the auto disk powder measure. I weigh every first charge and last charge and if I'm loading up 50 rounds I'll check somewhere in the middle, if it's 100 rounds I'll check twice. However, after I throw the powder I take every case off the loader and visually inspect every primer to see that it's seated properly and look in the case mouth to eyeball the powder. I started doing that after my first squib load.

ShootingNut · August 1, 2007, 04:35 PM

I get at least 2 squibs out of a hundred rounds. Those drop only 1 grain (just caught one last weekend) when others are at 3.8 gr.
So, my Lee Pro Auto Powder using a "full stroke" isn't very dependable.
Good thing I'm not loading a "defense" load, or I could be a dead duck!

CrustyFN · August 1, 2007, 05:49 PM

I use the Lee Classic Turret with the Pro Auto Disk. I used to check every 20 to 30 rounds. I added a LED light to my press so now once I know the measure is set where I want it I don't check until the end. I can see every powder drop before I set the bullet on. I know I can't see a .1 or .2 difference but I'm not worried about that small of a variation. I normally load in the low to middle part of the load data.That system has worked good for me so far.
Rusty

ShootingNut · August 1, 2007, 06:17 PM

As you know, I'm talking about a 2.0+ drop in charge. And yes, I also use a LED light and check my 50 rounds for a light looking load. But, regardless that is a bunch of crap, when you have to visually "look" for a light load. What does that say about the equipment we are using.

I was taking to task when I first started out, using a tape measure rather than an calipher to check my COL. Now I'm supposed to rely on my 65 year old eyes and a light, to be sure my charge is correct?

CrustyFN · August 1, 2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

As you know, I'm talking about a 2.0+ drop in charge. And yes, I also use a LED light and check my 50 rounds for a light looking load. But, regardless that is a bunch of crap, when you have to visually "look" for a light load. What does that say about the equipment we are using.

I have never had enough variation in my powder drops for it to be a concern. That tells me that my equipment is fine and setup correct. I wish I knew what was wrong so I could help you with yours. It isn't just the equipment we are using. Look at Dillon and Hornady. Everybody that owns one has a light to check the charge, or a lockout die or some kind of die to check for a bad powder drop. Sounds to me like it is not brand specific. If you read a lot of threads on progressives you will also find that they have more primer problems than a turret. If somebody could just make a trouble free press I would be first in line.
Rusty

DWARREN123 · August 1, 2007, 11:08 PM

Every 5 rounds.

Sigma 40 Blaster · August 1, 2007, 11:30 PM

Shootingnut,

I have had problems with squibs before, I didn't know that the Auto-Disk conversion charts were not exactly right (almost 1.3 grains low), after I found out which Auto-Disk cavity yielded the right charge I have had zero problems.

I would check the springs and other moving parts of your measure, it really sounds like it's not going all the way back to re-charge or all the way forward to drop the powder...I forgot what kind of powder you were using but I'm going to look into a ball powder instead of Unique...

Hope you get your problems worked out though, thanks to all for the input.

k8do · August 2, 2007, 07:29 AM

Dillon 650
Frequent loader (keep shootin em up)
I keep the powder hopper over half full at all times
At the start of each session I check the first charge and the 4th or 5th, then about every 50 rounds... It never varies from the set point of 5.0 gr. on the electronic scale (and cross checked now and then on a manual scale)
The other thing I do is look at every powder charge as I set the bullet (45 ACP, case is short and fat and easy to see the powder level)... I caught one squib load this way - it was my fault and as soon as I saw it I realized I had short stroked the handle when a stack of 2X4 lumber had toppled over behind me as other people were working in the shop... I stopped, emptied all the stations on the index plate, and started over...

denny

Wild Bill Bucks · August 2, 2007, 08:54 AM

It depends on the powder. Short grain powder will meter very accuratley, and most of the time, doesn't need to be checked more that every 10 rounds or so. If you are metering a longer grain powder, the metering adjuster in your powder throw, will occasionally cut one into and create an interruption in your rythum, and seems to throw a load off a little. If I'm using long grain powder, I weigh every charge. As said before, better safe than sorry.

July 30, 2007, 06:49 PM	#1
Sigma 40 Blaster Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: East Texas Posts: 997	How often do you verify charges??? I've been reading a few powder measure discussions that got me thinking, how often do you need to verify your charges are still the same. Let me qualify that statement by saying I'm not talking about bench rest reloading or trying to soup up a .38 special to make major, I'm talking about standard target loads 5-10% below max. I use a Lee Pro 1000 and the Autodisk Pro. My line of thinking is that if my "lever action" stays about the same and my methods stay the same my charge should stay the same, or well within a reasonable tolerance. I will usually check every 20 - 30 rounds (first and last case out of my case feeder tubes) for the first 100 or so then I'm off the races. I keep my powder hopper 2/3 to full...I will verify randomly here and there but usually more like every 50-60 rounds once I'm going. I'm interested to hear what more experienced rollers do. **EDIT-Hope this isn't a thread re-post, if it is sorry, I rarely use the search feature with all the new info popping up every day.

July 30, 2007, 09:47 PM	#3
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	That's one of the benefits I feel I get by loading single stage... all my cases get charged at the same time, usually in lots of 50, and I get a visual on each and every single piece before I proceed to seat a bullet. Especially with a small flashlight handy, it's a simple step to see that each case has a similar amount of powder in it. Then, I'll grab one or two of them at random and dump and weigh the charge to see if it's where I want it. I suppose if I were loading progressive, I'd audit a few loaded rounds by weight and look for any inconsistencies. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

July 30, 2007, 09:54 PM	#4
red-rider Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Location: Jonesboro, Arkansas Posts: 40	I use a dillon 550, I check the powder measure every session. I never changes. I reload for several pistol calibers, but 90% is 45acp. I keeo a small flashlight near the press and look down into the case every 20 or 30 to see. Never had a problem in 7 years of relading __________________ www.nationalgunforum.com

July 31, 2007, 12:44 AM	#7
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Now I prefer single stage myself, but if someone were giving away a new-in-the-box Dillon, I'd be right up at the front of the line! It just begs the question... if you've already given away two new Dillions this year alone... where are you getting them? You wouldn't possibly go out and drop $250-$500 on a machine that you refuse to use, and then be forced to give it away? Twice? If I were a match pistol shooter, I'd simply have to go progressive and I wouldn't look back. I'd still load single stage for other calibers that I don't use in matches, but I don't know of a lot of folks who have the kind of spare time it takes to produce these quantities of ammo to be available once a week for practice and matches. I can certainly see the attraction to progressive loading. I just don't need it myself, and I enjoy single stage enough that progressive is just not something I want. But for FREE ?! Yep, sign me up! __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

July 31, 2007, 09:57 PM	#9
clayking Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 796	I check the measure when starting out...... use a dillon 650 with a powder check, watch the powder check, look into it about every 10-15, check weight each 100, when I change primers. After tens of thousands of rounds, nary a low or high charge. Any Dillon giveaways, I'll take 'em.........................ck __________________ Never argue with an idiot, they will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

July 30, 2007, 08:25 PM	#2
DMZX Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2007 Location: E. Oregon Posts: 563	I load straight cased pistol ammo and use a Lee Perfect Powder Measure. I not a high volume loader, in that I load ~ 100 round a week or so. My maximum loads are always just short of the recommendation. Most of my loads are modest practice and target loads. I tend to be a slow and methodical reloader as I use reloading as a good way to relax and unwind, but still keep my mind active doing something I really enjoy. My routine is to fill the hooper 2/3's or more. Toss around 4 charges to get every thing "powdered up." Dial in the desired charge, checking with the scale until I have the charge bar set just right. Toss a charge into a case and weigh it. If all looks good, I run lots of 20 and check weight at the end of each lot and visually check the lot. I yet to make an adjustment to the charge bar, but I still check it, especially with certain powders. I shoot .44 mags in a 1894 Marlin rifle and when I work up a hunting specific load for it, I will run a 20 round lot and weigh each charge.

July 30, 2007, 09:55 PM	#5
Trapper L Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 804	I use a Rockchucker press and an RCBS powder measure. I use only the small pistol cylinder for all loads as I find it is far more accurate than the larger rifle cylinder. The small has enough capacity for almost any rifle load anyway. I check every tenth round for the first fifty rounds, recheck to make sure it is locked down tight and start dumping. I check every case with an LED flashlight- makes the powder glow in the case and easy to see that none are overloaded. I won't use any progressive style press. I've already given away two new in the box Dillions this year alone. I think they are the most dangerous thing to reloading, especially for the beginner or casual reloader.

July 30, 2007, 10:45 PM	#6
lev83 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Posts: 130	I wouldnt really consider myself a high volume reloader but my usual routine when loading pistol rounds is to check every 10 rds. I check every five when loading for rifle. Better safe than sorry.

July 31, 2007, 09:01 PM	#8
ludwig1138 Member Join Date: July 31, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 74	I use a Lee 1000 with Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure. I usually fill the hopper 3/4 full and put a small cup under the charge die mouth and cycle it 20 or so times by hand not cycling the press, then weigh a single charge. I repeat this a couple of times and then check it every 50 loaded rounds. I load for target shooting, and have had no problems with this method for nearly 8,000 rounds. I do keep a careful eye on the charged case for double charges, but so far none.

July 31, 2007, 10:22 PM	#10
Taxidermist Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2007 Location: New York Posts: 175	Well my reloading gear is all antique. I have an old 3 stage CH press and I have a bracket mounted on top for use with my pacific powder measure's. I use a different measure for each caliber. It is the old measure that uses a brass bushing. I do check it once in awhile but not very often. It's been accurate for the last 30 years so far. Oh yeah the reason I use a different powder measure for each caliber is I'm old and lazy and don't like changing those bushings. I think if they ever wear out I'll just quit. John __________________ Northern New York

July 31, 2007, 11:14 PM	#11
Chief-7700 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Location: Carmel Valley, CA Posts: 112	I check the measure when starting out...... use a dillon 650 with a powder check, watch the powder check, look into it about every 10-15, check weight each 100, when I change primers. After tens of thousands of rounds, nary a low or high charge. I also use a Dillon XL 650, Check a full shell plate at the start and another after I feed the machine new primers. The powder check system is a must have. Chief-7700 __________________ COLT M-1911 DOB 1918 and more a XL-650 to feed them

July 31, 2007, 11:15 PM	#12
Sigma 40 Blaster Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: East Texas Posts: 997	That makes me feel a little better. A reloading "old head" told me I needed to verify every 10 to 20 rounds regardless of my run size. I usually load 500-1500 of the same caliber in a single session, stopping every 20 rounds would definitely add some serious time to my reloading duties. I am about to buy an AR 15 and will get into single stage loading for .223. I don't think I'll be loading that at such high volumes (once I get a couple of thousand rounds for a buffer) but will probably be verifying those more frequently since I'll be dropping charges by hand and loading at near max load.

August 1, 2007, 11:18 AM	#13
buckster Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2006 Posts: 674	Load verification All one needs is one Squib to make you verify every time. I quit using the perfect powder measure because it was in-consistent and use a funnel and a hand primer. You can hot glue a 12 volt Led spliced into any old 12 v transformer so it will illuminate the shell area.

August 1, 2007, 11:46 AM	#14
Creature Junior member Join Date: April 8, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,769	I use a turret press and so I have to manually load each case into the press. I recheck when I start on the next row of brass in the box/container I am using to hold my rounds.

August 1, 2007, 12:27 PM	#15
Trapper L Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 804	Sevens, no, I don't buy the Dillions, they are given to me. I get all kinds of things from scopes, bullets, saboted bullets, etc. for trial and testing. A press like a Dillion and others I still say are dangerous and are not for the casual reloader. Of course, I'm old school, if you are going to do something- do it right and be proud of it. Can't be proud of some of the crap that comes out of some of these presses. I have yet to have anybody ever have a failure of any kind with any of my loads. I've been doing this for over thirty years.

August 1, 2007, 03:32 PM	#16
nobius Member Join Date: July 8, 2007 Location: Upstate, SC, USA Posts: 73	Trapper, You get another Dillon, or anything else shooting related for that matter, that you don't want/won't use, just let me know. I'll pay the shipping. __________________ http://www.conserv-eral.blogspot.com "I aim to misbehave" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

August 1, 2007, 03:52 PM	#17
arkie2 Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2006 Posts: 475	I use a Lee classic turret press with the auto disk powder measure. I weigh every first charge and last charge and if I'm loading up 50 rounds I'll check somewhere in the middle, if it's 100 rounds I'll check twice. However, after I throw the powder I take every case off the loader and visually inspect every primer to see that it's seated properly and look in the case mouth to eyeball the powder. I started doing that after my first squib load.

August 1, 2007, 04:35 PM	#18
ShootingNut Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,475	arkie I get at least 2 squibs out of a hundred rounds. Those drop only 1 grain (just caught one last weekend) when others are at 3.8 gr. So, my Lee Pro Auto Powder using a "full stroke" isn't very dependable. Good thing I'm not loading a "defense" load, or I could be a dead duck!

August 1, 2007, 05:49 PM	#19
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	I use the Lee Classic Turret with the Pro Auto Disk. I used to check every 20 to 30 rounds. I added a LED light to my press so now once I know the measure is set where I want it I don't check until the end. I can see every powder drop before I set the bullet on. I know I can't see a .1 or .2 difference but I'm not worried about that small of a variation. I normally load in the low to middle part of the load data.That system has worked good for me so far. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

August 1, 2007, 06:17 PM	#20
ShootingNut Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,475	Crusty, As you know, I'm talking about a 2.0+ drop in charge. And yes, I also use a LED light and check my 50 rounds for a light looking load. But, regardless that is a bunch of crap, when you have to visually "look" for a light load. What does that say about the equipment we are using. I was taking to task when I first started out, using a tape measure rather than an calipher to check my COL. Now I'm supposed to rely on my 65 year old eyes and a light, to be sure my charge is correct?

August 1, 2007, 11:08 PM	#22
DWARREN123 Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2006 Location: BETWEEN TN & KY Posts: 1,758	Every 5 rounds. __________________ Have a nice day!

August 1, 2007, 11:30 PM	#23
Sigma 40 Blaster Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: East Texas Posts: 997	Shootingnut, I have had problems with squibs before, I didn't know that the Auto-Disk conversion charts were not exactly right (almost 1.3 grains low), after I found out which Auto-Disk cavity yielded the right charge I have had zero problems. I would check the springs and other moving parts of your measure, it really sounds like it's not going all the way back to re-charge or all the way forward to drop the powder...I forgot what kind of powder you were using but I'm going to look into a ball powder instead of Unique... Hope you get your problems worked out though, thanks to all for the input.

August 2, 2007, 07:29 AM	#24
k8do Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Posts: 102	Dillon 650 Frequent loader (keep shootin em up) I keep the powder hopper over half full at all times At the start of each session I check the first charge and the 4th or 5th, then about every 50 rounds... It never varies from the set point of 5.0 gr. on the electronic scale (and cross checked now and then on a manual scale) The other thing I do is look at every powder charge as I set the bullet (45 ACP, case is short and fat and easy to see the powder level)... I caught one squib load this way - it was my fault and as soon as I saw it I realized I had short stroked the handle when a stack of 2X4 lumber had toppled over behind me as other people were working in the shop... I stopped, emptied all the stations on the index plate, and started over... denny

August 2, 2007, 08:54 AM	#25
Wild Bill Bucks Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2005 Location: Southeastern Oklahoma, Next door to Sasquatch Posts: 1,266	It depends on the powder. Short grain powder will meter very accuratley, and most of the time, doesn't need to be checked more that every 10 rounds or so. If you are metering a longer grain powder, the metering adjuster in your powder throw, will occasionally cut one into and create an interruption in your rythum, and seems to throw a load off a little. If I'm using long grain powder, I weigh every charge. As said before, better safe than sorry.