Tumble loaded ammo???

[Sigma 40 Blaster]

I have read about people tumbling loaded ammo, just curious what my fellow TFL'ers think about it.

I had about 100 pieces of nickel brass I loaded, they got mixed up with my regular brass. Apparently you need to bell nickel a little more than brass because my nickel cartridges have some ugly lube rings around the base of the bullet while my brass ones have none (before and after the nickel ones).

My solution? Tumble them. I'm not worried about the media making them fire or anything, just other experiences doing the same thing. Will it get those nasty lube shavings from the bullet???

[Sevens]

Well, I've certainly thought about it. I tried to think of any possible pitfalls and their chance of happening. Then, I tried to compared the risk-reward.

I couldn't come up with a compelling reason to take the risk, no matter how small. If a round were to go off, somehow, it would pretty much be disastrous.

I have heard (I'm talking one of those urban 'heard it on the internet!' legends) that a guy had some handloaded rounds bouncing around inside his pickup truck for many months and though none of them went bang on their own, he chambered a handful of them and the first one showed signs of very excessive pressure. He didn't fire any more, took the rest home and pulled the bullets to find the original flake powder was ground in to a fine dust and it completely changed the internal properties inside the round.

So-- was this true? Did it ever happen? Was there something else at work and not the broken-down flake powder?

I've got no idea. It was a story on the internet, so only Al Gore knows if it really happened. But it seems possible to me.

There's just not enough to gain IMO, to even try it.

[314EPW]

100 rounds aren't a lot.Just sit in front of the TV with a cloth and a cleaner and have at it!

[ShootingNut]

A few months back, I got the bright idea to tumble my finished rounds for only 30 minutes or so. Man did they look nice. Then I got to wondering, if that could have any effect on the powder.
I posted and the pros and cons came out, leaving me without an answer.
So I emailed both Hodgdon and Accurate powder companies. And as you might suspect, Hodgdon guy said "I would never do that", and the Accurate guy replied "NO PROBLEM, if you knew what that powder goes through in production."
So to play it safe, I went back to the rag and rubbing alchol. But, the tumbled rounds shot just fine.
As my loading experience has progressed, I now pay much more attention to getting the right amount of flare on the casings, so when I seat my lead I'm not shaving any lead or lube. Oh, your always going to get a few, but cleaning them up these days is not a big chore.
When I first started out, I sure turned out some Ugly rounds that would plug any auto in a jiffy!
SN

[Rottweiler]

I'm with Sevens on this. All the vibration would most likely cause the powder to grind its self to dust. DRASTICALLY changing its burning properties. Is it worth a kaboom?

Like 314EPW said, 100 rounds isn't all that much, you'll be done cleaning them in less time than it takes to watch a sitcom rerun

[ludwig1138]

I saw a post here some time ago that said the ammo manufacturers tumbled the finished product in their factories to produce that "new ammo" shine.

I'm no engineer but the force necessary to detonate the primer seems to be way higher than the bumping any tumbling would produce. I turned on my tumbler (Lyman turbo) with brass in it and stuck my finger in it and there's hardly any pressure at all between the brass. Doesn't seem to be any "bumping" anyway, just "rolling".

If the powder would degrade by tumbling action, how could the ammo be shipped all over the place, not marked fragile? Forklift, delivery truck, conveyer belt, pallet jack, disgruntled warehouse worker, my carry bag, etc, etc, if it would degrade it would be a fine powder by the time it was shot.

Of course this is just my .02

[ShootingNut]

Sigma,
I'm the dude that Mike at Master may tell you, started out using a tape measure to check the OAL!
I wish I could remember how he put his response, when I told him that being a carpentry for many years, I was really good at reading a tape.
Not too long ago, in one of his replies about an order, Mike said "oh, by the way did I ever convince you to buy a caliber."
My answer was, of course many months ago, and found out why it's needed.

[Mach II Sailor]

tumble/vibrate loaded rounds to your hearts content, for that beautiful "factory look", i do it all the time in my Dillon "tumbler" to get off the lube residue and for that shiney new look, the factory ammo producers do it by the hundreds of thousands, i use coarse grade walnut with out polish compound.., speaking of polishing compound i use auto rubbing compound DRY, i buy 2 or 3 cans of it remove the lid and let it dry out, then use a cheese grater to turn it to "dust", i use about a teaspoon full every third batch of fired brass.

[Alleykat]

Probably won't take 30 minutes to clean off 100 rounds of nickel brass. Surely won't degrade the powder. I tumble all my loaded .223 rounds for a few minutes, in order to remove the Hornady One Shot.

[Foxbat]

No problem at all, done thousands of times. Loaded ammo experiences worse vibration in transportation.

[TexasSeaRay]

Years ago, I decided to check out the "grind powder into dust" theory.

I loaded up some light 38 Spcl loads that left plenty of room in the case for powder to tumble. I loaded up Unique, W231 and Bullseye in separate cartridges, using different bullets such as LWC, LSWC and LRN to "mark' which powder was in which. Took out the 35mm and macro lens, shot closeup pics of "before" tumbling and "after" tumbling.

I used spent primers to plug the flasholes (had no intention of shooting these bullets since I used some loads not recommended and didn't want them accidentally finding their way into one of guns).

Ran the rounds through my Thumler's Tumbler AR12 for 12 hours--the max time I will tumble any brass.

Pulled the bullets, shot pictures, had them developed and compared "before and after" pictures of the powder.

Could not tell one iota of difference in the powder. I used a Minolta Rokkor 100mm lens, with Minolta bellows to get within almost one half-inch of the powder on both before and after shots.

Conclusion? I, in MY experiment, did not see any visible powder degradation whatsoever after 12 hours of tumbling.

Disclaimer: YOUR results may vary.

Sometimes I will tumble my finished rounds (including old factory) in a special media mixture I've made up. Most of the time, I clean my brass very thoroughly before hand, and have my dies set up so that shaving and lube-wipe isn't an issue except on the very occasional round. Those, I clean by hand.

Jeff

[Shoney]

For those who do not "feel comfortable" about tumbling loaded ammo, consider how many miles of bumpy dirt road you cover during a hunting season.

I have a rancher friend in eastern Montana who, during hunting season, drives an average of 300 or miles per week on God Awful dirt roads that jar your teeth. He has carried two rifles and two pistols in the rig with several 100 round boxes of ammunition for each YEAR ROUND. He only fires 50 or so rounds a year in the varmint rifle, and less than a dozen in the big game rifle, and hasn’t fired any of the pistol ammo.

Since I loaded and chronoed all that ammo, I was worried about the powder breaking down after three years of this “tumbling”. All the rifle ammo had the plastic case tops penetrated by the spire points in several places. Now that’s “tumbling”. I pulled several of the cartridges and was amazed to find no disintegration of the powder grains. Their chrono results were identical to the first results.

The comparatively gentle vibrations of the case tumbler will have even less effect on powder. Also consider that commercial loaders tumble their loaded rounds.

[Edward429451]

The granulation of the powder is a rare but real phenomenon I think. Riding around in a truck is not comparable to a vibratory tumbler which would accelerate the process I would think.

I've tumbled loaded rounds before by accident and nothing ever happened. I do not and would not get in the habit of it though. There's a man named Justin Case Murphy that does not like me and I try to avoid him.

Just wipe them with a clean dry cloth while you watch the tube.

[ottsixx]

Gosh Ive done loads of em and never thought about it til I stated reading these posts,never had a problem in the tumbler or at the range,So I guess carry on wayward son........................

[Sevens]

Conclusion? I, in MY experiment, did not see any visible powder degradation whatsoever after 12 hours of tumbling.

This sounds like a very well controlled scientific experiment. I'm swayed by this one. I may have to toss some of my loaded rounds in the tumbler that weren't cleaned before I rolled them.

Great info!

[snuffy]

Rottweiler


I'm with Sevens on this. All the vibration would most likely cause the powder to grind its self to dust. DRASTICALLY changing its burning properties. Is it worth a kaboom?

Oh? Now just what is in with that powder that's going to "grind" that powder? Do you put some sort of abrasive in with the powder? No, I didn't think so, I certainly don't. Then what is going to "grind" that powder? It rubbing against itself? Oh I see.

Next time you load something take an individual granual of power, try to break it. Tough stuff, ain't it! Powder rubbing against itself won't do a darn thing. Even if the shell in question has a LOT of room for the powder to move around,(at 50% load density), the impact between the chunks of powder is minimal.

[snuffy]

Here's a link to a debate that took place a couple of years ago over on the AR forum.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...7723#849107723

I'm grizz on that forum. I did the test on that forum, loading 300 WSM shells with R-19 powder. I always planned to repeat tests with other calibers and other types of powder, but never got around to it. On that thread there's a link to a test done by somebody on the glock talk reloading forum. Since Eric re-did his website, the old links don't work anymore.

[jmorris]

I tumble before and after loading. As above my grandfather “tumbled” rounds in his trucks for as long as the truck would hold together, then they would go behind the seat of the next one, they always worked. I wonder how much “tumbling” you would get on a C-130 bound for Iraq. You’ll be ok tumbling just don’t make silly faces as I hear they can “stick”.

[BigJimP]

Many responses seem logical - but I still wouldn't tumble completed rounds.

I do wipe the finished rounds down with a terry cloth towel / roll them under my hand on my bench / to get any excess lube off of them. I inspect the finished rounds and then I drop every round in and out of a case gague - if it drops in and out easily - then I box them up.

[Shoney]

Edward429451 stated:
The granulation of the powder is a rare but real phenomenon I think.

You think????????? Great stuff! You think. Show me your evidence or documentation?

Edward429451 stated:
Riding around in a truck is not comparable to a vibratory tumbler which would accelerate the process I would think.

You have obviously never hunted the backroads of Montana. While you espouse stinkin thinkin without documentation of any sort, I KNOW the jarring and vibration of those washboardy potholed roads is much more violent and harsh than any vibratory or drum tumbler.

I know scientific analysis of your thinking will show your horse has bladder problems.

[brickeyee]

If you ever saw a real high speed loader you would be shocked by the noise and amount of vibration the loaded rounds are subject to.
A few miutes to clean off case lube is nothing cmpared to what factiry rounds go through.

[Foxbat]

I don't think the goal of such discussions is ever to convince those who don't feel comfortable, to start tumbling their loads. At the same time, I have not seen ANY SHRED of evidence supporting the danger of such tumbling, so I shall continue as I have done for decades.

Ammunition is designed to withstand very rough treatment or war without degradation. I certainly would not want to be caught in the trenches with an ammo having the FRAGILE!!! sticker on it.

Thousands of people use old mil surp ammo. Heavens know what it has been through. I can assure you - much more than some time in a tumbler.

For those unaware of stresses found in normal transportation, it is not uncommon to see screws pop out due to vibration in products shipped via air carriers.

[TexasSeaRay]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

I don't think the goal of such discussions is ever to convince those who don't feel comfortable, to start tumbling their loads. At the same time, I have not seen ANY SHRED of evidence supporting the danger of such tumbling, so I shall continue as I have done for decades.

Very well said, sir.

I offered up my anecdotal controlled experiement simply as an example of what I discovered. I've been reloading for over two decades, and while I do not tumble all of my finished rounds, I will on occasion tumble some.

Everyone has--or SHOULD have--a comfort factor they deal with when reloading. I rarely exceed my own comfort factors, and then only because I have a very specific goal in mind and will use an appropriate built firearm to test those occasional excursions into (my own) unchartered territory.

But those journeys always begin with some pretty extensive prior research along with perusing my notes and journals. If I feel safe, I move ahead. If after all my reading and research, a little voice is whispering, "don't do it," then I don't.

Same thing would apply to tumbling finished rounds. I did my homework and conducted a controlled experiment. My conclusion was that it is safe to do so, so occasionally I do.

If someone still doesn't feel "right" about doing it, my heartiest recommendation is "don't."

Reloading and shooting is supposed to be enjoyable, fun and relaxing. No sense adding stress where it isn't necessary.

Jeff