December 6, 2019, 03:32 AM | #51 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,617
|
the letter is well written and contains some good points and conveys your feeling well, I think.
HOWEVER, I am of a divided mind on the entire idea of "Sanctuary" anything. On the one hand, I enjoy the irony of using the tactic for our cause as some use it for the illegal immigrant cause, but this is balanced with my feeling that they shouldn't be doing it to begin with, and our side doing it just doesn't sit quite right. I understand the importance of sending a message, but if the way the message is sent is illegal, does that really help our cause?? OF course there are many different levels involved, and there is a difference between a "we will not help you" and "we will disobey the law". Always remember the way the established ruling body looks at things. There is a system, which, while it may be difficult, does allow for change. Quote:
But here's the point, the message they're getting ( or more likely the only message they're willing to accept) is not that they are wrong but that you are willing to defy the law. And, of course, tis horrid, unethical, illegal and even dishonorable to defy the law, because the law was made all due, correct and proper processes were followed... if you look at that quote and move back nearly another hundred years, it becomes... The acts passed by Parliament and carried out by the Crown Governor are binding for our entire Commonwealth and its citizens, The legal precedent we would set by allowing Colonial communities to selectively ignore those laws at will is alarming and indicative of rebellion against the Crown and treason.... anyone else see a pattern here? I applaud the good people of your state for their show of solidarity, though I have personal reservations over the Sanctuary idea being the best way to send the message, I won't say you shouldn't use every tool that works. Do keep in mind the one constant that history teaches,.... There is NEVER any justification for rebellion against lawful authority... unless you WIN.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
December 6, 2019, 07:12 AM | #52 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 30, 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 298
|
Does anyone know of this rally for this Monday 9 Dec in Richmond? I know of the one for 20 Jan.
https://support.vatp.org/stopthegungrab/ |
December 6, 2019, 08:20 AM | #53 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,475
|
Quote:
Only way to 'not be controlled' is to make the state legislature reflect the 'majority'..but that takes $ and resolve. Sounds like you have the 'resolve', but blaming 'trans plants' and 'out of state money'...sounds like a place to look for the next election...$$, and more $$...
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” |
|
December 6, 2019, 09:59 AM | #54 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 22, 2014
Location: Floyd, VA
Posts: 241
|
Quote:
The supervisors of Floyd County are drafting their own resolution to fit Floyd rather than using cookie-cutter text from other counties. Per our Board of Supervisors Chairman Lauren Yoder as quoted in the Floyd Press: "Ultimately, Yoder was clear-eyed about the authority (or lack thereof) of county governments to regulate gun ownership. “One of the biggest things I don’t want to do is mislead people into thinking we have more power than we do. Counties really don’t have that much power,” he explained. “I really want our resolution to be more about advocating to the state and stating our position on the issue, rather than saying that we’re going to somehow absolve someone from a felony. We don’t have that power,” Yoder reiterated." I'm sure the various counties understand their legal limitations, but lacking any real power to stop the coming regulations are using these resolutions as a protest and a show of unity in the rural counties. The collective outcry just may cause some Virginia delegates representing purple districts to give the matter some thought, and perhaps negotiate some softening of the proposed new regulations, such as grandfathering.
__________________
In NJ, the bad guys are armed and the households are alarmed. In VA, the households are armed and the bad guys are alarmed. |
|
December 6, 2019, 11:26 AM | #55 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 11, 2012
Location: Mountains of Appalachia
Posts: 1,598
|
Quote:
|
|
December 7, 2019, 08:11 AM | #56 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,475
|
Quote:
I'm not in VA but rallies, proclamations, etc...It DOES send 'messages' but real change happens at the ballot box..
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” |
|
December 7, 2019, 11:46 AM | #57 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 30, 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 298
|
There is a rally this Monday 9 Dec in Richmond and another on 20 Jan. Also, attend your county board of supervisors upcoming meetings as many are happening very soon (see links for details). If you have not called or emailed your state delegate and senator, especially those in competitive districts, do that now. We must prevent the laws from getting on the books as they are difficult to remove once added. Also, plan on many legal/court battles ahead.
https://support.vatp.org/stopthegungrab/ https://www.vcdl.org/ https://whosmy.virginiageneralassembly.gov/ |
December 7, 2019, 11:55 AM | #58 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Posts: 438
|
the demographics of Virginia have changed and are still changing, even in some rural counties. Even getting your base core of support out is going to be less and less effective as time goes on. its time to change tactics and broaden that base. thumping your chest and threatening civil war isnt going to get it done. And its not just virginia.
|
December 8, 2019, 07:51 AM | #59 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,475
|
Quote:
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” |
|
December 8, 2019, 10:46 AM | #60 | ||
member
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
|
Quote:
But let’s say we can broaden our base to stalwart, no-compromise 2A voters - except they won’t vote for stalwart, no-compromise 2A politicians because they don’t like those politicians views on koala immigration or the burgeoning tortoise employment gap. And in the party that does share their views, there are ZERO no-compromise 2A politicians because they are primaried with put of state money and hamstrung by leadership until they lose. “Broadening your base” means a generations-long effort of reaching out to every possible ally you can knowing that well over 90% of them are going to be a waste of time and oxygen. And its a great strategy; but people should understand it isn’t an overnight one. The first part of “broadening the base” is revitalizing the 2A in both parties so that people who do support the 2A have choices. Look at where we are now in the White House, not an ideal choice from a 2A perspective; but pretty much the only one that was left from a 2A perspective. Quote:
|
||
December 8, 2019, 11:00 AM | #61 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 30, 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 298
|
Our immediate options are continue to send a message by showing up in large numbers at the county board of supervisors upcoming meetings (we have been doing great with this!), contact your state level senator and delegate (many have never heard from their constituents), attend as many rallies as possible, and be prepared to join the challenge to any unconstitutional law or regulation that is brought up and in the courts for any that gets passed.
|
December 8, 2019, 01:31 PM | #62 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Posts: 438
|
broadening the base is a long term strategy. As i'm sure you know, none of us have all the answers but its really imperative for the future of second amendment rights that we start working on that asap. i personally think that for starters pro second amendment organizations should concentrate on gun rights to the greatest extent possible, and avoid becoming embroiled and identified with social, cultural, and economic issues. There is no reason to broaden the base of our opponents.
Take myself for instance.....I live in New York, I am not a far right conservative, yet i own many guns, have no problem with others owning what they want, support right to carry, etc, yet i am not a conservative on social or cultural issues, How does it help the cause to call me a communist, or socialist, just because i do not agree with conservatives on every issue? Alienating potential allies because they dont share your whole world view is very counterproductive. |
December 8, 2019, 01:33 PM | #63 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 18, 2013
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 776
|
It's amazing how many gun owners I've seen online who claim "nobody is coming for your guns" even as they pass laws banning your guns. And not just the "fudds" either, people who own ARs and such who have been gaslighted into submission.
|
December 8, 2019, 03:10 PM | #64 | |
member
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
|
Quote:
|
|
December 9, 2019, 08:04 AM | #65 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,475
|
Quote:
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” |
|
December 9, 2019, 08:32 AM | #66 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 21, 2018
Posts: 218
|
Quote:
And FYI, the 2A is a social and cultural issue. Over the years, it has become the SOLE cultural issue I care about. |
|
December 9, 2019, 01:31 PM | #67 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Posts: 438
|
i dont think you should need a permit to own or carry a gun. if there is a permit system it should be shall issue.
Voting here is tough for second amendment issues. Republicans arent much better with gun issues here. We had a republican governor in the late 90's, Giuliani, was a republican mayor, and one house of the legislature was republican. they did nothing for gun rights except to make gun laws MORE restrictive. Giuliani flagrantly violated the fourth amendment, with stop and frisk for guns. The Safe Act could have been killed by the republican senate...they did nothing. So its not easy to find pro 2 nd amendment candidates, i do my best. I'm not alone here though as USNRet 93 stated there are plenty of us, who are pro second amendment, who are not being tapped into. It will be broaden the base of pro second amendment voters or continue suffering losses nationwide at an accelerating rate. demographic trends demand it. |
December 9, 2019, 03:29 PM | #68 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 21, 2018
Posts: 218
|
Quote:
As far as Giuliani and his leadership, he was doing the best he could with a city that was in collapse... civilization was in collapse there. And anyone who hasn't lived in that environment or similar one, should hold off on some of their opinions such as, "I don't care what was going on, it is illegal to stop, question and frisk someone for no reason at all". If anything, that state of civilization should be a warning to other cities and states that haven't experienced such failures of leadership that led to those living conditions. If anyone wants to look at some of the crime stats to get a statistical understanding, I'll provide a link. I feel like I am living on another planet, compared to how things were in the 70s and 80s and when Giuliani took charge things were getting even worse. http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm The democrats in VA are more than willing to lead their state into a full fledged social/civil catastrophe with the same disastrous leadership... Dems almost everywhere seem to be hell bent on it. While the good guys in VA have some fire in them right now, I hope it is there come next elections. |
|
December 11, 2019, 08:51 AM | #69 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 22, 2014
Location: Floyd, VA
Posts: 241
|
Well our Floyd County supervisors here in VA just unanimously passed a 2nd Amendment Sanctuary resolution! These Supervisor meetings normally draw just a handful of people. This one filled a 600 seat auditorium with many more standing! We are now up to 77 counties and municipalities in VA that have passed such a resolution. Hopefully the new democratic regime will take notice when they reconvene in January and begin negotiating the details of the proposed new regulations.
This is quite a movement and has been organized by the Virginia Citizens Defense League.
__________________
In NJ, the bad guys are armed and the households are alarmed. In VA, the households are armed and the bad guys are alarmed. |
December 11, 2019, 12:22 PM | #70 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 11, 2012
Location: Mountains of Appalachia
Posts: 1,598
|
Best of all, some of the blue counties that elected democrats have passed the 2A Sanctuary resolutions with hugh turnouts. I think it will make a few of the newly elected democrats see that if they vote for the proposed gun laws, they will never be re-elected. We only need a few to follow the constitution to defeat the laws.
Smyth County became a 2A Sanctuary county last night with well over 1,100 people showing up for the Board of Supervisor meeting that normally has attendance in single digits. The high school auditorium was overflowing with people standing around the wall or outside where there wasn't room. The vote was all yes. |
December 11, 2019, 06:34 PM | #71 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 26, 2006
Posts: 737
|
Yesterday announced...due to pressure from gun owners and counties...though I don't believe anything they say.
https://www.virginiamercury.com/2019...existing-guns/ “In this case, the governor’s assault weapons ban will include a grandfather clause for individuals who already own assault weapons, with the requirement they register their weapons before the end of a designated grace period,” Northam spokeswoman Alena Yarmosky said in a statement Monday evening. “Additional details on this and all other bills will be announced prior to the start of the upcoming session.” BUT... The new Democratic majorities are expected to pass a variety of gun restrictions, including universal background checks, red flag laws that would allow authorities to take guns from people deemed dangerous and reinstatement of a one-handgun-a-month law. We are going to keep up the pressure. This whole "registration" thing is absurd. |
December 11, 2019, 07:03 PM | #72 |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,617
|
the pattern is always registration now, confiscation later...
Never publicly admitted to (note how fast the fellow who said "hell yes we're going to take your AR15s" in public disappeared from the nominees?) not that it wasn't what they want, but because he was stupid enough to say it on the record. When the proposals show up, attack them in detail. Until then, Happy Holidays!
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
December 11, 2019, 07:22 PM | #73 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 19, 2007
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
Posts: 1,551
|
The logic is simple. Ban guns, and people won't be hurt by guns anymore
copied from #7--44 AMP. Tell that to the familes/friends of the three military personnel murdered in Pensacola. Guns were banned from there and they were killed anyway just like most cases where there are 'gun free zones." Wonder if we will ever know where the shooter obtained that Glock? The news wont tell us, wanna bet? |
December 11, 2019, 07:25 PM | #74 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 19, 2007
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
Posts: 1,551
|
from tom #70--
Well our Floyd County supervisors here in VA just unanimously passed a 2nd Amendment Sanctuary resolution! These Supervisor meetings normally draw just a handful of people. This one filled a 600 seat auditorium with many more standing! We are now up to 77 counties and municipalities in VA that have passed such a resolution. Hopefully the new democratic regime will take notice when they reconvene in January and begin negotiating the details of the proposed new regulations. This is quite a movement and has been organized by the Virginia Citizens Defense League. If all these folks had voted they wouldnt be attending meetings except many. many districts had NO pro 2A candidates and the (D)s won by default. YUK |
December 11, 2019, 07:34 PM | #75 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 21, 2018
Posts: 218
|
Quote:
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|