Man Chases Intruder from House, Shoots - Page 4

hartlock · August 3, 2011, 11:03 AM

Well, well, well!

Looks like all the armchair experts, of whom
only probably a few have ever been in this man's shoes have found
out that sometimes justice does prevail! I have no pity for the idiot
drunken college student that found his self in that man's house! I
call that "thinning" the gene pool! So, now, what are you guys that
think Texas is some kinda back-woods murder factory gonna say now?
The man was found not guilty by a jury of his peers and I would consider
this case closed! hmmmm?

Bartholomew Roberts · August 3, 2011, 12:25 PM

I don't think Ray Lemes is going to be doing much celebrating. Having to go to a murder trial, challenge and disqualify a juror and then another murder trial (not counting the civil suit that was dropped) is likely to leave him with a six-figure legal bill that he will be paying off until he dies.

At the end of the day, I guess only Ray Lemes knows whether the threat that drunken teen presented required the action he took. Either way, it has got to be rough on him... either he chased a drunken, confused teen out into the street and executed him or he was in a fight for his life and got dragged through a legal grinder that will burden him for the rest of his life for defending his own home. Whichever one of those is true, it tends to be the kind of thing that weighs heavily on a person.

Mello2u · August 3, 2011, 12:47 PM

As usual, we only have bits and pieces of the story. The mysanantonio.com link reveals an article By Craig Kapitan which seems (to me) to present the prosecutor's point of view. That detail about the laser sight, come on.

I assume that Texas law requires the defendant who claims the justification of self-defense (for committing homicide) to prove self-defense to the jury. I assume that the article has left out the facts upon which the jury based their acquittal. The jury's decision to acquit must mean they decided that the defendant was justified in shooting Tracy Glass.

It seems that the premise that the shooter chased the intruder from his home was incorrect. The defense seems to claim that the shooter was on his driveway. "Lemes testified that he was standing in his driveway when Glass jumped out from behind a brush pile, charged him and got within eight feet before he was shot."

Regardless another fact remains, that the defendant has paid a high price to maintain his freedom both in dollars and emotion.

chadstrickland · August 3, 2011, 01:03 PM

This is a sad story, if it is true the teen lunged at him and he was aggressive then he got what he deserved if he was innocent he should have stayed calm and waited for the cops.

I also agree that this man now has alot on his mind, legal bills, killing someone, ect. I only hope he is able to make it through this ok

**OldMarksman** · August 3, 2011, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Posted by hartlock: ...sometimes justice does prevail!

F. Lee Bailey was asked whether he was troubled by the fact that guilty defendants whom he defended sometimes got off without justice having been served. He replied that none of them ever got off without punishment because his fees bankrupted most of them. Lemes was reportedly out of money after the first trial.

So yes, there has been some justice.

Quote:

I have no pity for the idiot drunken college student that found his self in that man's house! I call that "thinning" the gene pool!

Let us all hope that you are never involved in a shooting with sparse evidence in support of justification. That permanent and discoverable public statement could ruin your life.

Quote:

So, now, what are you guys that think Texas is some kinda back-woods murder factory gonna say now?

Not being one of them I cannot say, but I wouldn't be surprised if it reinforces the misconception.

Quote:

The man was found not guilty by a jury of his peers and I would consider this case closed! hmmmm?

He has been acquitted and cannot be tried again by the state for the same crime, but he was not tried by a jury of his peers. That's an old English concept that is not practiced in this country.

hartlock · August 3, 2011, 01:43 PM

whatever! He is free, thats all that counts!

JerryM · August 3, 2011, 03:22 PM

I know this post will seem inconsistent with some other posts I have made.
While I value human life, there are some who cannot live in a civilized society.
There is also an element of living that says I have the right to own property, and the right to resist as necessary to retain my property. I once had a neighbor who was a district judge. I told him that under the law if my auto was parked at the curb in front of my house, and a thug or two decided to take the tires or a battery I would be unable to stop it unless I were larger and stronger than the perps. I could not use deadly force.

He stated that one could not take a human life to save the tires from being taken away. My reply was that the law zeroed in on the wrong thing. I agreed that a life is more valuable than tires, but is a life more valuable than the right to own and keep property? Do we not fight wars and millions of people die to be able to have that and other freedoms?
He had no answer to that except that the law does not permit deadly force to defend or save property.

So in a way I am in sympathy with the home owner regardless of the law. Can a thug commit a crime and run, and if you cannot catch him he gets away clean? Evidently that is the way the law sees it.

I understand that there are those who would over react and shoot when unnecessary. I do not have a good answer to that, but continue to believe that I have a right to own property, and with judgment do what is necessary to keep it. The line is a difficult one.

Jerry

kimbershot · August 3, 2011, 03:42 PM

you can't shoot someone for being stupid. i think many of the gunhoes who frequent this site suffer from bloodlust. you better know the law before you blow someone away, cus you certainly will know it after the fact.

hartlock · August 3, 2011, 03:56 PM

Well, it appears that is exactly what happened! He got shot
for being drunk and stupid!

Capt. Charlie · August 3, 2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

He got shot
for being drunk and stupid!

And that gets this one closed

.

The whole mission of TFL is to promote responsible firearms ownership. We shoot only to preserve our lives, definitely NOT because someone's "drunk and stupid".

Hartlock, see my sig. line. You're not helping our cause.

Closed.

August 3, 2011, 12:47 PM	#78
Mello2u Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,424	As usual, we only have bits and pieces of the story. The mysanantonio.com link reveals an article By Craig Kapitan which seems (to me) to present the prosecutor's point of view. That detail about the laser sight, come on. I assume that Texas law requires the defendant who claims the justification of self-defense (for committing homicide) to prove self-defense to the jury. I assume that the article has left out the facts upon which the jury based their acquittal. The jury's decision to acquit must mean they decided that the defendant was justified in shooting Tracy Glass. It seems that the premise that the shooter chased the intruder from his home was incorrect. The defense seems to claim that the shooter was on his driveway. "Lemes testified that he was standing in his driveway when Glass jumped out from behind a brush pile, charged him and got within eight feet before he was shot." Regardless another fact remains, that the defendant has paid a high price to maintain his freedom both in dollars and emotion. __________________ NRA Life Member - Orange Gunsite Member - NRA Certified Pistol Instructor "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." Frederic Bastiat

August 3, 2011, 01:03 PM	#79
chadstrickland Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 537	This is a sad story, if it is true the teen lunged at him and he was aggressive then he got what he deserved if he was innocent he should have stayed calm and waited for the cops. I also agree that this man now has alot on his mind, legal bills, killing someone, ect. I only hope he is able to make it through this ok __________________ Two weapons that was designed by the same man still in use by the us military 100 years later...1911 and m2...is there anything that comes close.....lol annd maybe perhaps a sig sauer p226 tac ops edition..

August 3, 2011, 03:22 PM	#82
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	I know this post will seem inconsistent with some other posts I have made. While I value human life, there are some who cannot live in a civilized society. There is also an element of living that says I have the right to own property, and the right to resist as necessary to retain my property. I once had a neighbor who was a district judge. I told him that under the law if my auto was parked at the curb in front of my house, and a thug or two decided to take the tires or a battery I would be unable to stop it unless I were larger and stronger than the perps. I could not use deadly force. He stated that one could not take a human life to save the tires from being taken away. My reply was that the law zeroed in on the wrong thing. I agreed that a life is more valuable than tires, but is a life more valuable than the right to own and keep property? Do we not fight wars and millions of people die to be able to have that and other freedoms? He had no answer to that except that the law does not permit deadly force to defend or save property. So in a way I am in sympathy with the home owner regardless of the law. Can a thug commit a crime and run, and if you cannot catch him he gets away clean? Evidently that is the way the law sees it. I understand that there are those who would over react and shoot when unnecessary. I do not have a good answer to that, but continue to believe that I have a right to own property, and with judgment do what is necessary to keep it. The line is a difficult one. Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

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August 3, 2011, 11:03 AM	#76
hartlock Junior member Join Date: January 10, 2010 Location: lockhart, texas Posts: 161	Well, well, well! Looks like all the armchair experts, of whom only probably a few have ever been in this man's shoes have found out that sometimes justice does prevail! I have no pity for the idiot drunken college student that found his self in that man's house! I call that "thinning" the gene pool! So, now, what are you guys that think Texas is some kinda back-woods murder factory gonna say now? The man was found not guilty by a jury of his peers and I would consider this case closed! hmmmm?

August 3, 2011, 12:25 PM	#77
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	I don't think Ray Lemes is going to be doing much celebrating. Having to go to a murder trial, challenge and disqualify a juror and then another murder trial (not counting the civil suit that was dropped) is likely to leave him with a six-figure legal bill that he will be paying off until he dies. At the end of the day, I guess only Ray Lemes knows whether the threat that drunken teen presented required the action he took. Either way, it has got to be rough on him... either he chased a drunken, confused teen out into the street and executed him or he was in a fight for his life and got dragged through a legal grinder that will burden him for the rest of his life for defending his own home. Whichever one of those is true, it tends to be the kind of thing that weighs heavily on a person.

August 3, 2011, 01:43 PM	#81
hartlock Junior member Join Date: January 10, 2010 Location: lockhart, texas Posts: 161	whatever! He is free, thats all that counts!

August 3, 2011, 03:42 PM	#83
kimbershot Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2008 Posts: 121	you can't shoot someone for being stupid. i think many of the gunhoes who frequent this site suffer from bloodlust. you better know the law before you blow someone away, cus you certainly will know it after the fact.

August 3, 2011, 03:56 PM	#84
hartlock Junior member Join Date: January 10, 2010 Location: lockhart, texas Posts: 161	Well, it appears that is exactly what happened! He got shot for being drunk and stupid!