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Old May 29, 2022, 11:48 AM   #1
PushPuller
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PSA AK GF3 longevity of life

Just curious, has anybody out there ran a GF3 through the wringer yet? Like, 10k rounds plus.

Iv seen the RobSki YouTube videos, but I’m wondering, has anyone out there actually shot one A LOT?

I’m partial to my imports, but I got one back on Black Friday and if I must be honest, it’s a little more accurate than my Yugo and WBPs. I’m a bit of a purist, but I kinda want to put a KNS gas piston, and decent optic on it since it’s already a travesty in the eyes of most AK puritans. I just don’t really want to put the money into it if it’s going to face an early death.
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Old May 29, 2022, 01:38 PM   #2
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Define "early death".

Seriously.

Guns only "die" when the receiver gets broken or becomes worn to the point of being unsafe, and past the point of economical repair.

If it is mechanical, and you use it, it WILL wear.
Now it becomes a balancing act between what the item costs, what it costs to operate it, what it costs to keep it operating (maint, including replacement parts) and how much you value the use you get against $.

These are all personal value judgements that YOU have to make, and are entirely dependent on your personal situation and values.

How many times the purchase price of the rifle are you going to spend in ammunition costs before the rifle "dies"???

And, that number might be dozens. Or even more. Or it might be significantly less, depending on your standards.

Take just one "wearing" part of the rifle, for example, the barrel. When does a barrel wear out?? The answer is, when it won't shoot accurately enough to meet the shooters needs.

The match shooter looking for "bughole" groups (all bullets in one hole) considers a barrel worn out if its "only" shooting 1 MOA groups. The big game hunter is fine with 1 MOA groups and knows even 2 MOA groups will still put an elk or deer in his freezer just fine. That 2MOA barrel isn't worn out, it still works great for him.

The Military has a different set of expecations. And, sometimes its as low as "if the bullet comes out of the barrel in the general direction of the enemy, its not worn out..." (ok that is a slight overstatment, but only slight)

Here's an example, one few people know about unless they are directly involved, (which I was). Back in the 70s, when I was there the Army Standard for Overseas Shipment for M16A1 rifle accuracy was 8MOA.

Literally. It was in the manual. If the rifle would shoot an 8 inch group (100yds) or less, it was passed and approved for overseas shipment COMBAT DEPLOYMENT. If it would not, then it was retained in the US for training use.

AND, neither required barrel replacement for being "worn out". There was a different standard for that, one what had nothing to do with accuracy, only physical wear.

SO, what are your personal expectations about what is an "early death"??? If an $800 dollar gun takes $30,000 dollars of ammo before it "dies" is that an early death, to you? Or if it only goes through $10,000 in ammo before needing parts replaced, is that an early death? When its not even the "death" of the gun, just some parts???

You could look at it like, some do, the only "early death" is one that happens while still under warranty.

Some makers will tell you how many rounds they expect their guns to last. Ask them, if you're curious see what they say.

One gun maker's manual I saw said they considered their pistol worn out if you put 5,000 rnds through it, and wanted it back (so they could check it for safety) if you did. At one time, Colt wanted one of their pistols returned to the factory for check if you put 1,000 rnds of +p through it.

If you're shooting an AK class rifle for the fun of blasting and recreation, I seriously doubt you will wear it out to the point the receiver dies of old age before you've spent several rifles worth of $ on ammo to do it.

ITs not impossible the receiver (the part that is legally the gun) might still be serviceable after you've shot enough ammo to buy a car. Barrels and other parts might need replacement before that, probably will, but the rifle isn't worn out just because the barrel is...
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Old May 30, 2022, 01:20 PM   #3
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"SO, what are your personal expectations about what is an "early death""

I didn't realize how subjective this actually is, but you make very good points.

I guess my idea of an early death would be anything that costs more to fix, than replacing the rifle as a whole ($600 in this case). Cracked/broken trunnions, receiver cracking, head spacing issues, bore wear going from 2-3 moa to 6+ moa. Pretty, much anything that would involve a machinist level work.

For what I've got I'd be happy with it getting to 20k rounds and disappointed if any of the above happen at 10k or less.
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Old May 30, 2022, 02:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Guns only "die" when the receiver gets broken or becomes worn to the point of being unsafe, and past the point of economical repair.
I saw one U tube on modes to a Sub Machine gun that stopped a lot of wear so the owners could shoot them without that fear as you get into ATF issues (not solvable, once gone its gone though there are some parts you can replace but not the ones that take it off the table)

Ergo, for my target shooting I used Savage receivers (you can do the same with Remington though getting that first barrel off is not easy). I have replaced one barrel that the throat was going fast.

I have an AK a friend gave me before he passed. More like 1.5 feet at 100 yards! Barely been shot. At least with factory ammo (I don't reload for it) its bad. But its not worn out!
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Old June 2, 2022, 01:58 PM   #5
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SMGs are low pressure beasts generally blowback so welding in more metal and recutting it to repair a worn or damaged receiver doesn't involve the same risks (and heat treat, etc.) needed for a 50-60,000 psi rifle class action.

Quote:
I guess my idea of an early death would be anything that costs more to fix, than replacing the rifle as a whole ($600 in this case). Cracked/broken trunnions, receiver cracking, head spacing issues, bore wear going from 2-3 moa to 6+ moa. Pretty, much anything that would involve a machinist level work.
Cracked/broken receivers are pretty much a deal breaker, but headspace issues, barrel replacements, and other "machine work" usually are much less than the cost of the gun, but depending on what is done, could be half the cost.
Depending on the gun, the specific work done, and labor costs.

For example, a $200 replacement barrel and $100 (more??) for a smith to properly remove the old one and install the new one is a lot for a $600 gun, but far short of buying another $600 gun.

On a more expensive gun, the equation balances differently. $300 to make a $1500 gun like new is cheap, relatively speaking.

Since you've got an AK variant, see if you can find a (translated) manual with the specs on how long (round count) an AK should last, or how long the barrel should last before needing replacement. OR ask the maker, directly if they are available.
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