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Old December 29, 2021, 09:47 PM   #1
musicmatty
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Total disappointment with Mossberg

My buddy was in the market for a Mossberg 500 retrograde because he really likes the old-school wood furniture on a pump action shotgun. We were finally able to catch up with a Mossberg 590 which is basically the same gun but with a heat shield over the barrel.

This gun turned out to be a total disappointment. The action was as stiff as an oak tree. Just as you started to crank the already stiff action open, it got even tighter and more restrictive as though it was in a bind. Nonetheless, this gun was practically dripping in oil and still binding. I asked to see another Mossberg that was a different model pump action with synthetic stock and it was exactly the same..stiff action.

I own three pump actions myself. Two are a model 128 Winchester and another a model 1300 Winchester home defender… all three are American made Winchesters. You hit the slide release on each of these pumps and immediately the action starts to open up and slide halfway down. Yes these pump actions are much older with lots of usage… However, they were nowhere near this stiff and restrictive brand new.

I remember some years back reading about the Mossberg 464 lever action and that they were very problematic with feeding issues. Apparently Mossberg knew this but was still shipping them out to dealers everywhere.

Very disappointing that we have an American made firearm company that’s putting out garbage. And I base it on this… When you can walk into a dealer and grab two models off the shelf and they both feel like they’re in a bind… I would say this wasn’t an isolated case. If I was a Mossberg executive, there would be heads on the chopping block immediately.
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Old December 29, 2021, 11:17 PM   #2
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I would bet money any decent Mossberg 'mechanic' could have those guns running smoothly in no time. Stuff happens. Maybe 5 guys on the line were out with Covid, who knows.
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Old December 29, 2021, 11:33 PM   #3
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[QUOTE] I would bet money any decent Mossberg 'mechanic' could have those guns running smoothly in no time. Stuff happens. Maybe 5 guys on the line were out with Covid, who knows.*****

Not a valid excuse Sir. Theres a process called quality control. These firearms should’ve never been placed in a box and shipped out to businesses in this condition. If everyone is out sick and there’s no one to inspect, then they should have never been shipped.
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Old December 29, 2021, 11:42 PM   #4
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Cant comment on what might be going on at Mossberg, I do know that their shotguns have been hard to find on store shelves for the last few months. I only own one Mossberg, and its a little over 20 years old.

Its the combo 500 that came with the 18" and the 28" barrels. The action has always been smooth and its never given me any issues. Its pretty much been relegated to an HD gun for the last 10 or 12 years.
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Old December 30, 2021, 07:29 AM   #5
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Hard to tell who may be at fault here. Could be Mossberg, could be the retailer. Many moons ago when I worked in retail, we tested everything before we handed off to the customer. I see no difference here in what should be done.

Last time I was in and bought my recent set of firearms, the sales associate had me check gun I was going to purchase from the box. Before they handed it to me, they did a clear and function check - same as they did with the demo version they had in the display.

I can't say that service, customer service have been stellar over the last 2 years, but I do not think things can be as cut and dry as placing blame on any one point of contact in the chain.
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Old December 30, 2021, 09:36 AM   #6
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Quality control has taken a huge hit due to the American consumer wanting the cheapest possible on all counts.
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Old December 30, 2021, 10:15 AM   #7
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Virginian is right, QC is practically non existent in the firearms industry right now, not only Mossberg but most of the others it seems. I've got defective guns from S&W(several), Kimber, Beretta, Browning, Ruger, Citadel, Taurus, so it isn't just Mossberg. They've gotten pretty bad over the last 20 years. Pay your money, plan on return for repair or do it yourself or live with it if you can. I bought a new 629 last year, double action hangs at the beginning of the pull, it's not useable, has a dished area in the rib. Shoots good in single action, very accurate. I decided to live with it but it is poor poor workmanship.
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Old December 30, 2021, 11:36 AM   #8
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That’s too bad these other manufacturers don’t adopt the policy of Henry firearms.
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Old December 30, 2021, 01:18 PM   #9
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In general

It is NOT a good time to buy stuff. Between the virus and the supply chain, the combined effect? Holy smokes, I've been in manufacturing since the late 1980's, we are on new ground overall.
Don't look to things getting better anytime soon.
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Old December 30, 2021, 01:41 PM   #10
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I bought my grandson a 20 ga Mossberg 500 pump 3 months ago and had the same experience. It has the worst action of any pump shotgun I’ve ever handled. My Remington 870’s and Winchester 1200 and 1300 are so much better. And yes, I disassembled the Mossy looking for obvious wear points and lubricated it. It still has a HORRIBLE action! That’s the last and only Mossberg I’ll ever waste my money on!
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Old December 30, 2021, 02:12 PM   #11
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I bought my grandson a 20 ga Mossberg 500 pump 3 months ago and had the same experience. It has the worst action of any pump shotgun I’ve ever handled. My Remington 870’s and Winchester 1200 and 1300 are so much better. And yes, I disassembled the Mossy looking for obvious wear points and lubricated it. It still has a HORRIBLE action! That’s the last and only Mossberg I’ll ever waste my money on!
So I’m not alone here… I didn’t think so after picking up two different Mossberg models with the same results. Regardless of the virus or supply chain issues… That’s no excuse for sending a bad product out the door to retailers.

Maybe Mossberg has figured this out and has halted production trying to figure out what the Hells going on and this is why most retailers don’t seem to have much of their products. It truly would be sad to see Mossberg fail as an American company and go down the tubes like Marlin and Remington.

Both good news and bad news spreads very quickly through the Internet. Hopefully someone in the Mossberg camp will pick up on this thread and try to resolve this issue ASAP before it becomes a barnburner.
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Old December 30, 2021, 07:18 PM   #12
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Kicking out stiff, nasty guns is dumb. Good way for a company to shoot themselves in the foot.
Unless the market is insane and people will buy anything, no matter the quality ... such as right now.


A point I want to hit:
Winchester 1300s start out reasonably smooth, and get better with some use.
But they eventually eat themselves to death and die by jamming/dragging worse and worse, until they lock solid. The action bars and locking arrangement were cheapened too much, and are the Achilles heel of the design.
Mossberg starts stiff and gets better. Winchester starts smooth and dies stiff.
Pick your poison?
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Old December 30, 2021, 09:50 PM   #13
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I don't do mossbergs. Better stuff out there.
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Old December 30, 2021, 10:08 PM   #14
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[QUOTE] I don't do mossbergs. Better stuff out there.[/QUOTE

My friend would prefer to buy an American made firearm and support the American workers here in our country. I have a feeling Mossberg‘s in trouble and I sure hope they pull it together before it’s too late. Two slide rails for the pump action, a shell lifter and a bolt… How complicated can this be to have smooth action ?
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Old December 31, 2021, 12:54 AM   #15
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Do you want cheap CNC'd parts?
Or expensive hand-fitted parts?

In the modern world, price point determines labor limits.
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Old December 31, 2021, 09:00 AM   #16
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I’ve a few pumps shotguns myself. One is a Mossberg, it started out stiff and got better with age. Now the only thing I have that is smoother is an Ithaca 37. I think Frankenmauser got it right. Any thing mechanical has a break in period. I’m sure Mossberg is not doomed because their pump actions are stiff out of the box
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Old December 31, 2021, 01:20 PM   #17
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The public want's "cheap" and if a gun made from press stampings fills the bill
for them, that's what they buy.
I have Wingmaster's and Ithaca Featherlight's, they are a joy to shoot and handle.
There are too many used guns out there not being able to find a used quality gun,
remember the better guns will last several lifetimes.
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Old December 31, 2021, 02:22 PM   #18
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Mossberg 590 which is basically the same gun but with a heat shield over the barrel.
The 590 may appear similar, but is a different gun than the 500. The military was looking for a new shotgun years ago and the 590 was designed to meet the specs set up by the military. It isn't intended to be a hunting gun, but is a heavy duty, tuff shotgun.

I suspect those guns were just fine and only needed some break-in. Mossberg could pay someone to do the labor of hand polishing parts before the guns are shipped, or they can assemble the parts and let the user polish them from use to break the gun in.

Consumers have spoken. They won't pay for the added expense.
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Old December 31, 2021, 03:05 PM   #19
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Quality.

You have your Mossberg in hand. I don't. Maybe you are right. Maybe its a piece of crap. Maybe. I don't know.
In the mid 1970's,I started my working life in manufacturing.
Roughly in the 1980's the Japanese quality was part of why folks were buying Japanese,and the USA economy was suffering.
A critical factor was a Gentleman (and his bride) J. Edwards Deming,who came out of (I believe) Cody,Wyoming,or nearby.
He helped postwar Japan establish their world beating quality culture. Its largely based on stable processes and statistical process control.
Simply put,refine your processes so you only make good parts. If you buy parts,qualify your suppliers so you only buy good parts. Instead of using your tolerance zone and sloppy process to make 95% parts that did not spec "Scrap" Use a better process to produce 100 % parts that are all the same within .001 and all to print spec.
Scrap and rework are expensive,and you cannot inspect quality into a product. I repeat. You cannot inspect Quality into a product. Its upstream.

So,like it or not,ladies and gentlemen,long held illusions about QC inspectors are just that. Illusions. Perhaps "supplier quality audits".

Another illusion is "Old Joe", been here 30 years and knows how to tweak anything to make it work.

Today,Old Joe will get written up maybe fired if he touches a file or stone to a part.

Its a global market. If USA wants to sell a product in the European Market,the USA manufacturer must qualify to ISO standards.
A large part of ISO standards has to do with documentation of processes and materials. At least in part,behind that is 30 years from now,if I need a critical replacement part,or if this product is a critical part, its made by process still good 30 years later.
Old Joe gets fired or quits or dies. Manufacturing cannot rely on old Joe anymore. The firearms industry used to rely on old Joe a lot. They can't anymore.

Another Quality guru 's name is Juran. As I recall from some education I was getting,Juran said " For all the ways we might try to define,qualify,quantify,measure Quality, it boils down to how the customer FEELS about the dollar they spent.

Clearly,there is a Quality issue.

However...how we feel is often about our expectations. We ourselves control those. I would not approach a Mossberg with old Win Model 12 expectations.

OK,its stiff. Too stiff. I believe it was Elmer Keith I was reading. Something about working in WW2 Arsenal. Someone blued the bolts or carriers on some BAR's or 30 Browning MG's. They would not run. That can be pretty serious if you are the gunner.

So,one day I was in the market for a used Win 97 pump. the young LGS gunsmith had one with no buttstock that he had just reblued. But he was mad at it. It was stuck shut. To show it to me,he got his brass hammer out.
I said "No,please! Don't. I'll just take it. " I got a very good price.

My hunch as,this was an unworn,tight Win 97.

I was right. It was just the bluing tying it up.

I have no idea what is up with your Mossberg.

From here, sight unseen,I'd say buy 200 rounds of # 7 1/2 and go shoot a couple rounds of sporting clays.

Be sure to lube it well first. PB Blaster makes a spray penetrating lithium grease. Don't get carried away,but a fairly generous application of an oil like CLP and a TINY application of the penetrating grease in the bolt and carrier area,and any other high friction spots might help.

We don't want galling.For cold weather,you may be flushing it out later,but this is break in.

Keep your emotions under control. Don't get mad at the gun. Lower your expectations,laugh at it,and have fun. Become 14 yrs old with your first shotgun,and By Golly! I IS going to work!

See if maybe,after 200 rounds,its not better. Maybe not perfect,but encouraging.

Good luck!!

Last edited by HiBC; December 31, 2021 at 03:16 PM.
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Old December 31, 2021, 04:47 PM   #20
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These firearms should’ve never been placed in a box and shipped out to businesses in this condition.
First question, did it work at all??

I mean did the action fully cycle or did it bind fast and you couldn't move it?

Mossberg has always been the budget gun, not as smooth as good Winchesters or Remingtons, generally..

The Win Model 12 isn't as slick as a Rem 870, but it damn sure works.

Mossbergs have always been guns that worked. Just not as nice as more expensive ones. And you're not paying what better guns cost, either.

Could very well be, "if it works, it goes out the door", and if it doesn't work well, or well enough to suit you, buy something else.
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Old December 31, 2021, 09:49 PM   #21
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My 1st handgun had an incredibly stiff safety. It almost took both hands to manipulate it. All it took was the 1st range trip to loosen it up. Some mechanical things need to broken in, not to function, but to function better.

My Maverick 88, a budget version of the Mossberg 500, works great. If I push the slide release while pointing the muzzle upward, the slide opens fully under the power of gravity. I doubt it was like that outta the box.....break in and all.
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Old January 1, 2022, 03:49 AM   #22
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I just found this video, it was made three days ago Dec 29, 2021. This video adds confirmation to what I recently encountered with the new Mossberg’s. It also illustrates just how good older various models are and how they should not be overlooked. I learned a long time ago if I parked my ego, I may learn something. Loyalty to any brand going down the tubes only serves the foolish.

https://youtu.be/VhLaLtK_RtI
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Old January 1, 2022, 06:38 AM   #23
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Loyalty to any brand going down the tubes only serves the foolish.
If you look for William Blakes work "The Proverbs of Hell" you may find the line "If the Fool would persist in His Folly.
He would become Wise"
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Old January 1, 2022, 10:20 AM   #24
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HiBC this maybe hard to take but there are gun makers out there that make
ISO Standards look like kids play.
I'm talking about the real gunmakers of bespoke guns.
Now parts are made on CNC machining centers and then hand fitted by real gunsmiths
to a gun that is ordered with every detail taken care of.

The world of ISO is where 8 hours training on assembly and they become gunsmiths!!!
Stamped, molded, injection molded, and parts made with the smallest amount
of machining are now being used in today's less costly guns.
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Old January 1, 2022, 11:19 AM   #25
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I have a hard time believing those Mossberg’s won’t break in to be as smooth as my old 500…
In fact, I’d be willing to trade my nice, smooth, pre-broken in 500 straight across for your brand new oh so stiff 590.
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