So I acquired some Vihtavuori N310

[Nick_C_S]

I like fast powders because I shoot a lot of target level 38 Special rounds.

A couple weeks ago (maybe three), I stopped by my LGS and they had two pounds (two 1#'s) of Vihtavuori N310 on the shelf. I've always wanted to try it because it's a really fast, single base powder, and should run pretty clean. But I already have about a three year supply of fast powders in my inventory (Bullseye, HP-38, AA2, Nitro 100) as it is. And because of that, I decided it would be the right thing to do if I left it for others. So I passed.

Today, I went back to my LGS and those same two pounds of N310 were there. I figured by now, they were "fair game," so I grabbed one.

Purpose: My goal is two load recipes - a plated 148gn DEWC running about 725 f/s for IDPA Power Factor; and a plated 158gn SWC running about 775 f/s for ICORE Power Factor.

So I get home and start grabbing load manuals - nothing. I went on line to Vihtavuori's site - nothing. So I have no load data. It's a really fast powder, I know. But my goal isn't unrealistic. 38 Special is a spacious case, and I'm only trying to push the bullets to very modest velocities. This should be doable, but I'm starting as blind as I ever have with a load work up.

At this point, for maximum safety, I'm going to start with a soft cast Missouri Bullet Co "PPC#2" 148gn lead DEWC. As an initial goal, I just want the bullet to leave the barrel. So I felt it was not prudent to start with the plated DEWC (Rainier) that I'm ultimately going to use. (Plated bullets have higher barrel friction.)

After the initial test, moving forward, the plan is to work up the soft cast to about 800 f/s (assuming no pressure signs), then back down the grainage a little and cross over to the plated slug. Adjust from there to the 725 f/s. Having that data will then give me a jumping off point for the 158gn plated SWC's - but that's way down the road.

I was thinking about 2.5gns as a starting load. Here's the needed data if anybody wants to Quick Load it: 2.5gn VN310; Winchester WSP primer; Starline 38 Spl brass; Missouri Bullet Co. 148gn soft cast lead DEWC bullet - overall length = .575"; OAL of the loaded cartridge = 1.240". Medium taper crimp.

As it is, I'm going to load 5 rounds and chronograph them. No need for much sample size for right now. I just need a ballpark velocity to get this work up off n running.

And if anybody else has ideas for load data, let me know.

Thanks,
Nick.

[mmb713]

I have the VihtaVuori 3rd Edition manual. Data for N310 is sparse in any cartridges and as you found out is nonexistent in 38 Special. I did some flipping around and here's some info that hopefully will be helpful to you.

The data for a 148gn wadcutter in 38 Special with N320 is 3.2gn to 3.4gn. In 380 ACP with a 90gn XTP the max load of N320 is 3.5gn and the max load with N310 is 2.8gn. With a 100gn FMJ the max load for N320 is 3.3gn and for N310 it is 2.5gn. They do not give start loads in 380 ACP. Hopefully this sheds some light on the relationship between load levels with N320 and N310 and you can extrapolate.

The only other load with both N310 and N320 data is in 9mm with a 90gn XTP. Start and max with N310 is 4.0gn and 4.3gn. With N320 it is 4.9gn and 5.4gn. They do have 38 Special data for a Rainier 158gn FP and N320. 4.3gn to 4.6gn.

N310 should work well for 38 Special light target loads. They should publish data for it. All of the VV powders I've used have been very clean and accurate. Hope this helps. Good luck and stay safe.

[Nick_C_S]

Yes mmb713, I had to guess by inference of other powders and - as you pointed out - the relationship between N320 & N310. And as all loaders know, using other powders as a guide is a worst case scenario (at best). But in this instance, I think I'm safe.

Vihtavuori's site states that N320 & N310 have the same energy by weight; thus, they are "like" powders, except for burn rate. To use "relationship inference" between the two is useful and safe. Safe, at least at the load levels I'm going to use.

I have a lot of load data using propellants in the same speed range, and all of them are well above the 2.5gns I'm going to start with here. And I found a load data site (Using Brian Pfleuger's sticky post) that showed a 148gn SWC (never heard of a 148 SWC??) with a starting load of 2.7gns.

So I have loaded the rounds at 2.5gns.
Hopefully, I'll get them chronographed tomorrow and I'll post the results.

[Sevens]

My post is not at all helpful... but it is a free bump!

It has long been my plan to avoid Vihtavuori powders completely. To never purchase any of them or use any of them... EVER! I have succeeded halfway, as a friend gave me a pound of N160 rifle powder and I have used it a bit.

Why?
Quite simply... I have no need or desire to get addicted to them. From my perspective, I have never once heard of a handloader that did NOT enjoy his experience and result with Vihtavuori powders and of course, many have claimed phenomenal results with them. But I have experienced phenomenal results with my own favorites from Hodgdon, Alliant and Western/Accurate.

To get yourself addicted to a Vihtavuori powder is to put yourself in the position of wanting and chasing a powder that is almost without argument:
--more expensive
--more difficult to find in stock
--obviously more difficult to find many published loads

If I were genuinely lacking somewhere in Hodgdon, Alliant or Western/Accurate, I would have a solid reason to try a Vihtavuori powder but I do not lack.

This is my thought process and it makes so much sense to the practical side of me.

[9MMand223only]

According to the master guru reloader....and the best reloading website in the history of mankind...

the load for 38 special in ~146 grain bullets for 38 special is:

N310 2.2-2.6 grains

N310 is well suited for 110 grn 38 special bullets, and lighter bullets from handgun cartridges.

When you go lighter bullets using 310, the window of loads will open up..and not be so tight like .4 grains in the above example.

In 110 gran 38 special, its 4.5-6.4


on to 9 MM.
115 grain 4.1-4.9
90 grain 4.0-4.5

If you are going to use N310, use the lightest bullets, or near the lightest bullets you can buy for any cartridge.

310 should not be used for things larger than .357. HOOOOOT potato!

PO

TA

TO

[Nick_C_S]

Well we're going to find out how N310 does with the heavier 148's tomorrow.

I decided to load groups of 5 at 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 2.8, 2.9, & 3.0gns. I figured what the heck. Worse case, they start shooting too hot and I'll have to pull the remaining bullets. I hate pulling bullets, but they're taper crimped and should pop apart easy enough (inertia puller). Besides, there are only 30 rounds to begin with.

[Nick_C_S]

Purpose/end goal: IDPA compliant round, running about 725 f/s (709 f/s required to meet Power Factor), using a Rainier plated 148gn DEWC. But these rounds were with a lead soft cast 148 DEWC.
Test gun: S&W Model 67, 4" bbl.

Five round samples. Here's the average velocities:

2.5gn = 680 f/s
2.6gn = 698 f/s
2.7gn = 727 f/s
2.8gn = 748 f/s
2.9gn = 774 f/s
3.0gn = 786 f/s

Even though the sample size was small, the results were more or less linear and therefore, useful for my purpose. These were with a MoBuCo soft cast 148gn DEWC. Using past data as a guide, I know that I have to add about 0.3gns of powder to achieve the same velocities when switching to a plated DEWC.

My next step is to use the Rainier 148gn plated DEWC for the next group.
I think I'm going to go with 2.9, 3.0, & 3.1gns - 10 rounds each - next trip to the range. Which may be tomorrow, IF I can get my lazy posterior off this couch . I need to clean the gun and load the ammo. We'll see.

[Nick_C_S]

After extensive chronographing with plated DEWC's, and at six different load levels with groups of 20; I have come to the conclusion that Vihtavuori N310 is not a good propellant for my application. Velocity readings are all over the place. (Yes, I tilt back the gun before shooting.)

I strongly suspect that the cavernous 38 Special case makes for inconsistent ignitions; and thus, high Standard Deviations. VN310 seems to be rather dense and the fill level is very low.

So the the projects for IDPA and ICORE shooters using VN310 are both scrubbed. What can I say? I wasn't going to know unless I tried.

I have no doubt that VN310 is an excellent propellant. But it is probably better suited for more confined semi-auto cases. Maybe I'll try it with 200gn LSWC's (and plated) for 45 ACP. And I bet it would make good 115gn 9mm range shooters.