358 Winchester Center Fire

vts · January 22, 2011, 04:22 AM

I am looking into converting a rem 700 into 358 WCF.
I live in Scandinavia and hope to take it moose and deer hunting. My plan is to take my old rem 700, 243win, re-barrel it and put on a low magnification scope, 1.25-4 or some thing in that order. Also tread the barrel for silencer.

My question is what experience do you guys have with the 358WCF on deer and moose?
What load did you use?
And have you used it on anything bigger?

And last, do any one have any experience with Woodleigh's 310grain weldcore bullet? Woodleigh list recommended impact velocity to 1800-2200fps, that seems a tad high for the 358wcf. Doubletap have a load with this bullet at 2075fps, any one used this?

Thanks up front

natman · January 22, 2011, 04:32 AM

I have a 358 Browning BLR and it works great on deer. I haven't had the opportunity to shoot a moose with it, but I wouldn't hesitate to do so. The 310 is too long a bullet for best results with the 358 case. I'd recommend no more than a 250. If you can't stop it with a 250 grain Partition or a 225 grain X-bullet, it's time for an elephant gun.

vts · January 22, 2011, 04:35 AM

It looks like a 250gr nosler partition is a good choise in the 358

taylorce1 · January 22, 2011, 06:58 AM

If you can get them I'd think a 225 grain Nosler Accubond would be an outstanding choice in a .358 Win. I can't use them in my .358 because of magazine restrictions of the Savage 99 lerver action. I'm thinking of building a bolt gun as well in .358 and I would use this bullet on everthing.

Mike Armstrong · January 22, 2011, 11:15 AM

A bolt gun in .358 makes a lot of sense if you hunt game heavier than American deer, especially if you handload, which it sounds like you do. In the US, the .358 has never been very popular, although it is hard to figure out why. So it has been reduced to a kind of "cult" status, with a very few strong supporter/users, among whom I count myself. It will probably never die out altogether because of the virtues of the round and the fact that it is very easy to make .358 cases out of the universally available .308/7.62 Nato cases.

My .358 is an old Remington 760 pump action that was originally a .308 but had a bore ruined by firing .308 rounds handloaded with ancient corrosive primers and then letting the rifle sit "until next deer season." I had it rebored and rechambered to .358 and have used it for many years. A friend uses a Ruger 77 bolt action (basically a Mauser 98 with a tang safety like a shotgun) originally made in .358. He has killed several American elk with his, and a really BIG feral hog. The biggest things I've managed with mine are a 6x6 mule deer buck that went 210 pounds field dressed and a medium-sized California wild hog, 181 pounds field dressed. Both one-shot kills.

bennie schott · January 22, 2011, 11:35 AM

Several years ago, I did the same thing with a Rem. 700/.243. I also used the 1.5 X 5 Leupold scope. I carried this .358 rifle for several years while in the saddle.
I shot several bull Elk with 225 grain bullets and a Muley buck. All dropped in their tracks, but than again they all under 140 yards. I have no experience at longer ranges,sorry.
ben

Wyosmith · January 22, 2011, 12:29 PM

I have made several 35 Whelen rifles for customers. The 35 Whelen is somewhat like a 358 win. with 40 extra yards built in. The 358 comes very close to the 35 Win in velocity, in like length barrels.

I hear VERY good things about the 35 Whelen is you feed it good bullets. Sadly, the Hornady 250 grain bullets come apart way to fast for good performance on moose. The Nosler Partitions however make a SUPER good "bear and moose gun." (or "any big game gun" for that matter)
So I am sure the 358 will be a wonderful rifle for you if you use good bullets in it.

dgludwig · January 22, 2011, 03:25 PM

Quote:

I am looking into converting a rem 700 into 358 WCF.

What is your Model 700 chambered in now? If it's a 30-06 (or its offspring-the .25-06, etc.), the better (easier) conversion in terms of feeding from the magazine and bolt length might be to go with the .35 Whelen (as Wyosmith suggested) as the Whelen is little more than a necked-up 30-06. However, if the current chambering is a .308 (or its offspring-the .243, etc.), for the same reasons, going with the .358 might be the best course of action, as it is little more than a necked-up .308.
In any event, I'm sure that you'll be happy with either round. I've used a Savage Model 99 chambered in .358 Winchester for decades and, though I've never shot a moose with it, deer don't travel very far after being hit with a 200 grain SilverTip put in the right place.

vts · January 23, 2011, 02:00 AM

"My plan is to take my old rem 700, 243win, re-barrel it "

Looks like most use 225 or 250grains for the task at hand. Both Nosler partition and acubond work fine.
Any one tried Barnes? I looked at there reloading data and it seems a little low compared with what I have seen. Is this due to longer bullets?

I was planing to use 250gr partition and maybe even cast my own bullets.
Any one got any experience with cast bullets, home made or not?

dgludwig · January 23, 2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

"My plan is to take my old rem 700, 243win, re-barrel it "

Somehow I missed that part, ergo the redundant question

. With that cleared up (in my mind, at least), based on the rationale I opined earlier, the .358 (as opposed to the .35 Whelen) would make the theoretical best candidate for the conversion project you envision.

Quote:

maybe even cast my own bullets.
Any one got any experience with cast bullets, home made or not?

I have used the following cast bullet loads over the past several decades with good results in my Savage Model 99, chambered in .358 Winchester (note: some of these are loads that I referenced from some long ago and long forgotten source[s] but that I have tried at one time or another and found to be satisfactory in terms of ballistics and accuracy. My cast bullet usage has been entirely for economical reasons at the bench and on the range. I've always used factory bullets for hunting-which, of course, isn't to say that cast bullet loads are in any way inappropriate for hunting, both for varmints and for big game; it's just that I have had no experience in hunting with cast bullets and, therefor, have no business commenting on their killing power effectiveness or lack thereof:

Bullet: Lyman 3589/282gr; Powder: WW-748; charge in grains: 42

Bullet: Lyman 358315/200gr; Powder: IMR-3031; charge in grains: 35

Bullet: RCBS 35-200-FN/200gr; Powder: IMR-3031; charge in grains: 40

Crankylove · January 23, 2011, 12:54 PM

For my Ruger in .358 Win, I load 45.5 grains of W748 under a 250 grains SP.......about 2,200-2,250 fps. I have worked up some loads for 220 gr. RN, 200 gr. SP, and 225 gr SP, as well, but I bought it to use with heavy bullets, so the lighter projectiles don't get shot much.

vts · January 24, 2011, 03:36 PM

One day I might get a lever action in 358 Win.
I have a thing for slow and heavy bullets, especially home made lead. Oddly a 243 win rifle is all I have to work with, hope to recover from my light and fast days soon.
What kind of velocity do you get with your lead Mr. dgludwig? The only lead experience I have is with a 44mag, and I had to keep it under 1000fps to avoid leading, I don't know what the alloy was but they where cheap bullets. I need to read up on casting bullets for big game. Also looking into getting a 300grain,or more, mold for it.

taylorce1 · January 24, 2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

I need to read up on casting bullets for big game. Also looking into getting a 300grain,or more, mold for it.

If you go that heavy you will need a very fast twist barrel for 300 and up grains. I'd find out who makes a 1:10 twist barrel in .358 before I set my hopes on a bullet that heavy. It may stabalize in a 1:12 barrel don't know for sure, but they sure will not have much velocity out of the .358 case to help them stabalize.

Get a Lyman's newest cast bullet reloading manual. They just came out with one this last year. That should help you to decide what you want to shoot and give you an idea of velocities you can achieve.

JiminTexas · January 24, 2011, 05:08 PM

"Also tread the barrel for silencer."

Uhhh......Why???

hornetguy · January 24, 2011, 05:37 PM

I would guess that it's allowed in Norway? Some other countries are more level-headed about things like that.
If it was legal here, and if it didn't drastically affect ballistics, every one of my rifles would be suppressed.

jimbob86 · January 24, 2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

I would guess that it's allowed in Norway?

It IS allowed here, in most states ..... you just have to do some paperwork and get a $200 tax stamp......

dgludwig · January 24, 2011, 08:36 PM

Quote:

What kind of velocity do you get with your lead Mr. dgludwig?

My notes from a long time ago:

Bullet: Lyman 3589/282gr; Powder: WW-748; charge in grains: 42; MV:1,968 fps

Bullet: Lyman 358315/200gr; Powder: IMR-3031; charge in grains: 35; MV:2,002 fps

Bullet: RCBS 35-200-FN/200gr; Powder: IMR-3031; charge in grains: 40; MV:2,255 fps

vts · January 25, 2011, 07:35 AM

""Also tread the barrel for silencer."

Uhhh......Why???"

To reduce the shock wave that comes with the bullet as it leaves the barrel.
A silencer is just as legal as milk and bread. You can walk out of any gunstore with any silencer under your arm, no paper work, application of any kind. Just pay your money and take your pick. Or as I do, make them my self.
Silencers do not affect ballistics of any projectile, it does add weight at the end of the barrel and this will change point of impact and also, in some cases, affect precision.

I will look for Lymans cast bullet reloading manual.
And I will try Woodleigh 310gr before ordering custom mold.

mapsjanhere · January 25, 2011, 08:07 AM

Quote:

It IS allowed here, in most states ..... you just have to do some paperwork and get a $200 tax stamp......

While you can legally own them, can you go hunting with them? I thought most states prohibit hunting with silencers to reduce poaching.

Black Frog · January 25, 2011, 09:11 AM

My latest deer machine. 7600 converted to 358, I chopped/crowned at 18.5" on my lathe. Topped with Talley Lightweight rings and Leup VX-3 1.5-5x Heavy Duplex:

vts · January 25, 2011, 10:40 AM

Thats a nice rig Black Frog. I want to do something similar with a Browning BLR take down. Not sure if I want stainless or light weight, but I don't like the look of pistol grips on lever actions.

Yes it is legal to hunt with silencers in Norway.

I came across this 300 grain cast bullet, anyone tried it?
http://www.midwaynorge.com/apps/epro...eItemID=438654

dgludwig · January 25, 2011, 12:14 PM

Quote:

but I don't like the look of pistol grips on lever actions.

Have you ever seen a Winchester Model 71...

cornbush · January 25, 2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

"Also tread the barrel for silencer."

Uhhh......Why???

Perfectly legal in Utah to hunt with......in New Zealand if I remember right guided hunts are REQUIRED to use a suppressed weapon to protect the hearing of the guide.

vts · January 25, 2011, 11:36 PM

I have seen the model 71, and i don't like the looks of it... maybe i'll change my mind in the future

January 22, 2011, 04:22 AM	#1
vts Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 242	358 Winchester Center Fire I am looking into converting a rem 700 into 358 WCF. I live in Scandinavia and hope to take it moose and deer hunting. My plan is to take my old rem 700, 243win, re-barrel it and put on a low magnification scope, 1.25-4 or some thing in that order. Also tread the barrel for silencer. My question is what experience do you guys have with the 358WCF on deer and moose? What load did you use? And have you used it on anything bigger? And last, do any one have any experience with Woodleigh's 310grain weldcore bullet? Woodleigh list recommended impact velocity to 1800-2200fps, that seems a tad high for the 358wcf. Doubletap have a load with this bullet at 2075fps, any one used this? Thanks up front __________________ California, The Land Of the Not So Free. Flinch and you'll be chasing your head down Fifth Street! Joe Friday. http://www.chuckhawks.com/825_magnum.htm Why not a .88 magnum?

January 22, 2011, 04:35 AM	#3
vts Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 242	It looks like a 250gr nosler partition is a good choise in the 358 __________________ California, The Land Of the Not So Free. Flinch and you'll be chasing your head down Fifth Street! Joe Friday. http://www.chuckhawks.com/825_magnum.htm Why not a .88 magnum?

January 22, 2011, 12:29 PM	#7
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	close to a 35 Whelen I have made several 35 Whelen rifles for customers. The 35 Whelen is somewhat like a 358 win. with 40 extra yards built in. The 358 comes very close to the 35 Win in velocity, in like length barrels. I hear VERY good things about the 35 Whelen is you feed it good bullets. Sadly, the Hornady 250 grain bullets come apart way to fast for good performance on moose. The Nosler Partitions however make a SUPER good "bear and moose gun." (or "any big game gun" for that matter) So I am sure the 358 will be a wonderful rifle for you if you use good bullets in it.

January 23, 2011, 02:00 AM	#9
vts Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 242	"My plan is to take my old rem 700, 243win, re-barrel it " Looks like most use 225 or 250grains for the task at hand. Both Nosler partition and acubond work fine. Any one tried Barnes? I looked at there reloading data and it seems a little low compared with what I have seen. Is this due to longer bullets? I was planing to use 250gr partition and maybe even cast my own bullets. Any one got any experience with cast bullets, home made or not? __________________ California, The Land Of the Not So Free. Flinch and you'll be chasing your head down Fifth Street! Joe Friday. http://www.chuckhawks.com/825_magnum.htm Why not a .88 magnum?

January 23, 2011, 12:54 PM	#11
Crankylove Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2008 Location: 8B ID Posts: 1,753	For my Ruger in .358 Win, I load 45.5 grains of W748 under a 250 grains SP.......about 2,200-2,250 fps. I have worked up some loads for 220 gr. RN, 200 gr. SP, and 225 gr SP, as well, but I bought it to use with heavy bullets, so the lighter projectiles don't get shot much. __________________ The answer to 1984 is 1776

January 22, 2011, 04:32 AM	#2
natman Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2008 Posts: 2,606	I have a 358 Browning BLR and it works great on deer. I haven't had the opportunity to shoot a moose with it, but I wouldn't hesitate to do so. The 310 is too long a bullet for best results with the 358 case. I'd recommend no more than a 250. If you can't stop it with a 250 grain Partition or a 225 grain X-bullet, it's time for an elephant gun.

January 22, 2011, 06:58 AM	#4
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,242	If you can get them I'd think a 225 grain Nosler Accubond would be an outstanding choice in a .358 Win. I can't use them in my .358 because of magazine restrictions of the Savage 99 lerver action. I'm thinking of building a bolt gun as well in .358 and I would use this bullet on everthing.

January 22, 2011, 11:15 AM	#5
Mike Armstrong Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: OC, CA Posts: 40	A bolt gun in .358 makes a lot of sense if you hunt game heavier than American deer, especially if you handload, which it sounds like you do. In the US, the .358 has never been very popular, although it is hard to figure out why. So it has been reduced to a kind of "cult" status, with a very few strong supporter/users, among whom I count myself. It will probably never die out altogether because of the virtues of the round and the fact that it is very easy to make .358 cases out of the universally available .308/7.62 Nato cases. My .358 is an old Remington 760 pump action that was originally a .308 but had a bore ruined by firing .308 rounds handloaded with ancient corrosive primers and then letting the rifle sit "until next deer season." I had it rebored and rechambered to .358 and have used it for many years. A friend uses a Ruger 77 bolt action (basically a Mauser 98 with a tang safety like a shotgun) originally made in .358. He has killed several American elk with his, and a really BIG feral hog. The biggest things I've managed with mine are a 6x6 mule deer buck that went 210 pounds field dressed and a medium-sized California wild hog, 181 pounds field dressed. Both one-shot kills.

January 22, 2011, 11:35 AM	#6
bennie schott Junior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: Littleton,CO Posts: 12	Several years ago, I did the same thing with a Rem. 700/.243. I also used the 1.5 X 5 Leupold scope. I carried this .358 rifle for several years while in the saddle. I shot several bull Elk with 225 grain bullets and a Muley buck. All dropped in their tracks, but than again they all under 140 yards. I have no experience at longer ranges,sorry. ben

January 24, 2011, 03:36 PM	#12
vts Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 242	One day I might get a lever action in 358 Win. I have a thing for slow and heavy bullets, especially home made lead. Oddly a 243 win rifle is all I have to work with, hope to recover from my light and fast days soon. What kind of velocity do you get with your lead Mr. dgludwig? The only lead experience I have is with a 44mag, and I had to keep it under 1000fps to avoid leading, I don't know what the alloy was but they where cheap bullets. I need to read up on casting bullets for big game. Also looking into getting a 300grain,or more, mold for it. __________________ California, The Land Of the Not So Free. Flinch and you'll be chasing your head down Fifth Street! Joe Friday. http://www.chuckhawks.com/825_magnum.htm Why not a .88 magnum?

January 24, 2011, 05:08 PM	#14
JiminTexas Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2010 Posts: 149	"Also tread the barrel for silencer." Uhhh......Why???

January 24, 2011, 05:37 PM	#15
hornetguy Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2011 Location: on the north side of DFW Posts: 970	I would guess that it's allowed in Norway? Some other countries are more level-headed about things like that. If it was legal here, and if it didn't drastically affect ballistics, every one of my rifles would be suppressed.

January 25, 2011, 07:35 AM	#18
vts Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 242	""Also tread the barrel for silencer." Uhhh......Why???" To reduce the shock wave that comes with the bullet as it leaves the barrel. A silencer is just as legal as milk and bread. You can walk out of any gunstore with any silencer under your arm, no paper work, application of any kind. Just pay your money and take your pick. Or as I do, make them my self. Silencers do not affect ballistics of any projectile, it does add weight at the end of the barrel and this will change point of impact and also, in some cases, affect precision. I will look for Lymans cast bullet reloading manual. And I will try Woodleigh 310gr before ordering custom mold. __________________ California, The Land Of the Not So Free. Flinch and you'll be chasing your head down Fifth Street! Joe Friday. http://www.chuckhawks.com/825_magnum.htm Why not a .88 magnum?

January 25, 2011, 09:11 AM	#20
Black Frog Member Join Date: January 7, 2009 Posts: 61	My latest deer machine. 7600 converted to 358, I chopped/crowned at 18.5" on my lathe. Topped with Talley Lightweight rings and Leup VX-3 1.5-5x Heavy Duplex:

January 25, 2011, 10:40 AM	#21
vts Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 242	Thats a nice rig Black Frog. I want to do something similar with a Browning BLR take down. Not sure if I want stainless or light weight, but I don't like the look of pistol grips on lever actions. Yes it is legal to hunt with silencers in Norway. I came across this 300 grain cast bullet, anyone tried it? http://www.midwaynorge.com/apps/epro...eItemID=438654 __________________ California, The Land Of the Not So Free. Flinch and you'll be chasing your head down Fifth Street! Joe Friday. http://www.chuckhawks.com/825_magnum.htm Why not a .88 magnum? Last edited by vts; January 25, 2011 at 10:49 AM.

January 25, 2011, 11:36 PM	#24
vts Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 242	I have seen the model 71, and i don't like the looks of it... maybe i'll change my mind in the future __________________ California, The Land Of the Not So Free. Flinch and you'll be chasing your head down Fifth Street! Joe Friday. http://www.chuckhawks.com/825_magnum.htm Why not a .88 magnum?